galley-up or galley-down?

Pete, I am not sure what you mean by the loss of space due to steps. There are going to be steps down anyway on almost all cruising boats. Plus steps provide great storage.

I guess I'm a minority here, but living on the boat I need the separation. Galley down was a must for me.

psneeld said:

It just blows me away that statements are made like one shoe fits all...there are so many different styles of boats being discussed and no reference to size...

Well.... heck I prefer the galley to be on the second deck close to the elevator that can bring meals up to the dining or sun areas or down to the master stateroom....now.....really?

I prefer it up or down...depending on the style and size of any particular boat....so what's the REAL question??? and again...what's your cruising style and love of cooking and NEED for cooking?

I always said all a bachelor needs is a microwave and a grill....who the heck needs a galley anyway?......

The best is pulling into marinas...the first 20 sentences out of the harbormasters mouth is where are the 10 best places to eat...above all else...so what you do might be one thing but it seems the vast majority of cruisers cook very little for dinners anyway. Yes of course serious ones do...but again....is the OP gonna fit one or the other category????

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I realize that this is a very individual sort of thing. I was just curious to see if there were any reasons for choosing one of the other that I may not have considered.

Those are all excellent questions. I really have no idea what kind of cruiser I'll be. I'll be living aboard, so I'll want to do a lot of cooking. I love eating out as much as the next guy, but I'm fat enough as it is... I'd need decent storage and enough counter space to not bag my elbows constantly. I'm looking in the 35 to 45 foot range at this point. I still have much research to do to try and narrow that all down a bit.

Moonstruck said:

Here's a good compromise on the Sabre 42 saloon express Just 2 risers down from saloon.

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I love that layout. Those are beautiful boats.

Wayfarer said:

I realize that this is a very individual sort of thing. I was just curious to see if there were any reasons for choosing one of the other that I may not have considered.

Those are all excellent questions. I really have no idea what kind of cruiser I'll be. I'll be living aboard, so I'll want to do a lot of cooking. I love eating out as much as the next guy, but I'm fat enough as it is... I'd need decent storage and enough counter space to not bag my elbows constantly. I'm looking in the 35 to 45 foot range at this point. I still have much research to do to try and narrow that all down a bit.


I love that layout. Those are beautiful boats.

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While it's an individual thing...it's probably more about the boat thing. As I posted...some designs force it, some design lean towards it and then some design allow it to be easily either place...but then it is up to the individual. But then it relates to their style of crusing too.

When I was first boat shopping for my 3rd liveaboard I was financially strapped and even considered a 36 trawler where I would take the galley out of the saloon and turn the forward stateroom into a huge galey/utility area. The second stateroom on a boat that small was secondary (TO ME) and better use was in my mind.

Like Snipe78....galley down to some liveaboards is important to feel certain types of separation and as far as being separated from the crowd...on my boat it's not true...just visually but you are only 6 feet away and easily in the conversation. Plus some Trawler owners with galley down upgrade the port over the stove to 2-3 times the size so a view outside is reasonable, just not a picture window.

All boats are compromises and some can even be fixed, to a point, either way with a little ingenuity.

The Ad seldom cooks on the boat, and on our Sundeck the three steps down to the fridge for a bottle of water or to mix cocktails starts to add up to knee pain. That being said, I still like the galley down as it adds another "isolated area" that a Sundeck seems to provide so well.


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

Forkliftt said:

The Ad seldom cooks on the boat, and on our Sundeck the three steps down to the fridge for a bottle of water or to mix cocktails starts to add up to knee pain. That being said, I still like the galley down as it adds another "isolated area" that a Sundeck seems to provide so well. View attachment 32530


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

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See that's where having one more option than the boat designer comes in handy...

Galley - down
Wet Bar - up - smaller but easy to slip in someplace

Galley reminds me of pots and pans...not good in the saloon
Wet Bar reminds me of Happy Hour ....good in the saloon

Admiral says "galley up". That is certainly reason enough for me.

Peter B said:

This is an old chestnut, in fact there is an identical thread on here even now, which I think best merged, if I can remember how to do it, as a mod.

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I've merged the two threads. No charge for this public service to the community.

Wayfarer said:

I realize that this is a very individual sort of thing. I was just curious to see if there were any reasons for choosing one of the other that I may not have considered.
...

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To answer the question, I think you have to also decide what you will do with the boat. Are you going to be doing coastal cruising? Crossing oceans? Once you answer those questions, then you have to ask what other designs changed have to occur to a boat with galley down vs galley up? Are these other design impacts important to you or not?

Minimal design changes can lead to major design changes. Galley Up vs Galley Down is a big design difference and leads to other design choices/compromises. This might not be apparent unless one compares two designs on the same hull.

Here is a design for the galley up aka a sedan. Lots of living space up which also means there is more top side weight and windage. This design is not recommended as a passage maker but people have taken this boat from Asia to Hawaii. Is top side weight and windage important to you? I think it depends on what you want to do with the boat.

Here is a sedan version and I think the engine room access is where the desk is located in the master stateroom. What is key to me is that engine room access is not optimum and it is through the master stateroom. Engine room height is also reduced because of the galley and living spaces being moved up stairs. There is quite a bit of space in the engine room but it is not easily accessed because of lack of height. Would that space be better used a different way?

Another common design issue with galley/living space up designs is that it leads to hallway space. Hallway space in a house is expensive and should be minimized. This is even more true on a boat. Look at the hall way space that is used down below. One needs hallway/passage way space but it is better if that space has duel usage. Just space to walk through is expensive.

Other brands/designs have very similar layouts down below. There really is a limited number of ways you can design in a couple of staterooms/large spaces and heads in this configuration. This is not bad, nor is it good, it just is and depends on personal preference.

The other problem I have with this particular design is how much space is in the master stateroom. That location of the bed is pretty optimum from a sleeping perspective since the room is in the center of the boat but that location at the widest part of the beam means that stateroom is sitting in a prime location on the boat. That extra space around the bed is wasted. Even with a king size bed, there still is quite a bit of walk around space. For me, that is wasted space but this is a personal choice.

Stairs aka ladders are danged expensive in a house, and again, more so in a boat. Notice how much space it take up by the curved stair in the sedan vs the pilot house only design. This is a common stair design I have seen in similar sized boats.

A big plus is that the galley does have more counter space than the galley down design. If windows in the galley is important, then the sedan wins vs the port hole on the non sedan.



Here is the deck plan for the same hull but with only a pilot house up and everything else down below.

The engine room is smaller but head room is much better. Access is from the galley so when underway the on watch crew does not have to go into the master stateroom to do engine checks. The galley is down and the space doubles as hallway space to the master stateroom and engine room. There is very little hallway space forward to the bow stateroom especially compared to the sedan version. The master stateroom is a bit tight at the foot of the bed, and there is a new design that adds a foot of extra space in the stateroom, but I would be happy with the current design. There really is not much wasted space in the design of the master stateroom.



I have not seen many designs/brands that allow one to pick and choose a galley up vs galley down on the same hull. If one does have a choice, I think the design impacts of galley up are pretty major in other areas of the boat design. Which design is better really is a personal decision.

Later,
Dan

Galley up is what we have and it suits us just fine. But Don't know if I prefer it over galley down because I've not owned a boat with one. That said,I would like to have a boat that has the saloon, staterooms, galley, head and cockpit on the same level. I'm not old, but I already dislike steps.

mahal said:

Galley up is what we have and it suits us just fine. But Don't know if I prefer it over galley down because I've not owned a boat with one. That said,I would like to have a boat that has the saloon, staterooms, galley, head and cockpit on the same level. I'm not old, but I already dislike steps.

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There are a few models out there with a single floor layout. My own boat has the salon, head, galley and stateroom on one level. The size of the galley allows for three actual countertop work stations when entertaining. Two can prepare gormet meals without interfering with each other. The window through to the salon allows one to be part of or separate from the action,..your preference. There are two pass through hatches in the ceiling, big enough for full sized dinner plates, that one can pass meals to the pilothouse. Headroom in the galley is 7 ft..

Everything is big on this boat, but the compromise for the space and single floor layout is that the pilothouse is a second deck affair, and is the only helm station. Unless one has the optional inside access, the standard pathway is out to the veranda and up a ladder through a close-able hatch. Normally, it's no real challenge, but in downpours or in rough seas, it can be. Here's a pic from the salon looking through the galley window, and a photo of the galley space.

healhustler said:

There are a few models out there with a single floor layout. My own boat has the salon, head, galley and stateroom on one level. The size of the galley allows for three actual countertop work stations when entertaining. Two can prepare gormet meals without interfering with each other. The window through to the salon allows one to be part of or separate from the action,..your preference. There are two pass through hatches in the ceiling, big enough for full sized dinner plates, that one can pass meals to the pilothouse. Headroom in the galley is 7 ft..

Everything is big on this boat, but the compromise for the space and single floor layout is that the pilothouse is a second deck affair, and is the only helm station. Unless one has the optional inside access, the standard pathway is out to the veranda and up a ladder through a close-able hatch. Normally, it's no real challenge, but in downpours or in rough seas, it can be. Here's a pic from the salon looking through the galley window, and a photo of the galley space.

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Very cool layout. Much like a 48 Whaleback except, I think, the Whaleback has the interior access to the pilothouse.

Ted said:

Galley up for us.
Wheelhouse, galley & dinette all on same level (although sloping with deck).
Provides easy access and seating when under weigh. When only one is on watch they can go to the stove for coffee, fridge for a pop or stand at the counter to make a sandwich and still "keep an eye out". Slow boat, 7 to
7 1/2 knots, with an autopilot.
Saloon is aft and down.
Ted

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Ted, I like that layout. The pilot house is still separated a bit from the galley.

The land equivalent of galley up or galley down is open concept or separated rooms. Watch a show like House Hunters and you'll find everyone feels very strongly just half each way.

BandB said:

The land equivalent of galley up or galley down is open concept or separated rooms. Watch a show like House Hunters and you'll find everyone feels very strongly just half each way.

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Good analogy!

BandB said:

The land equivalent of galley up or galley down is open concept or separated rooms.

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What impressed us about the GB46's galley-down arrangement is that there is just a cabinet between the aft end of the galley and the forward end of the main cabin. So someone working in the galley is not cut off from the people in the main cabin or the person at the lower helm.

Marin said:

What impressed us about the GB46's galley-down arrangement is that there is just a cabinet between the aft end of the galley and the forward end of the main cabin. So someone working in the galley is not cut off from the people in the main cabin or the person at the lower helm.

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Odd how things have evolved. Galley up was primarily a US thing for a while. European boats tended to like to keep the galley very separate. Even when up, they'd make sure they had a wall to divide it from the other areas. But European builders had to do Galley up versions for the US market and soon found them gaining favor in Europe as well.

You reference the GB 46 galley down. However, I believe now all GB's are built galley up. And ultimately that's a compromise some can make to get the boat they like while for others it's a non negotiable.

caltexflanc said:

Pete, I am not sure what you mean by the loss of space due to steps. There are going to be steps down anyway on almost all cruising boats. Plus steps provide great storage.

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Steps remove same area from horizontal floor space. Not so important if just a central companionway, but to access a galley down, they come out of saloon floor space usually, or galley floor space, or bit of both, and also usually opposite the lower helm in many boats, so another hole to fall down in a seaway, or entering the boat in poor light. Take it from me, I've done that...

The galley down pic in post 136 seems to me the "normal galley down" arrangement as it is what was on every boat I looked at in the 40-45 range such as Albins, MTs, and some brands I don't remember maybe like Present. Not sure what the "other" type of galley down is and maybe a pic or floor plan would help people understand some of the opinions and issues.

Most of us that have that style have said the galley really isn't cut off and add the larger port like some and the feeling of "below" is less. Unlike homes the room sizes much smaller and double use of spaces and overlap is much more important. Those that don't want to exclude the cook may forget the noise sometimes made in the "galley" is disturbing to the conversation in the saloon...even though not far away or muted that much...it's still less distracting when in a different visual space.

This is colloquially known as the bachelors galley

Peter B said:

Steps remove same area from horizontal floor space. Not so important if just a central companionway, but to access a galley down, they come out of saloon floor space usually, or galley floor space, or bit of both, and also usually opposite the lower helm in many boats, so another hole to fall down in a seaway, or entering the boat in poor light. Take it from me, I've done that...

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Pete, can you give me an example of a boat where steps go only to a galley and there is nothing else down at that level? ? I can't recall having seen one.

Thanks!

Galley up except when we have guest and outside is not an option...very seldom in FL. Our bridge is huge. I am doing some mental design for more of the kitchen duties being done outside on the stern. I have fresh water, LPG Weber Grill (head and shoulders above the stainless sheet metal POS yachtie types) and 22,000 btu burner. Have not tried the grill as an oven yet. Gonna though. Thinking of a griddle steel insert for the grill to use as a griddle and keep flame off bottom of pan. Maybe iron skillet on top of steel for corn bread. Perhaps a wire grate to lift pans off the steel 1/2 inch for airflow. I have a huge slab plastic board for cutting, could be placed on trunk cabin top, elevated to a comfortable cutting height. Gonna drill the grill top to install a probe thermo. Easier cleanup. Does not heat the cabin. Will post pix Now that I think I have 'figgered out picture posting with the mobile app for I pad.

dhmeissner said:

Ted, I like that layout. The pilot house is still separated a bit from the galley.

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Dave,
Your right, but the separation could be said to be more psychological.
On the port side the galley counter ends at the door to the side deck,
foreward of the door is the full size door (pass through?) to the wheelhouse.
On the starboard side the dinette ends at the thwartship line as the
counter. Foreward (directly across from the door) are the stairs to the
fo'c'sle .
The bulkhead has a 30" full height section between the wheelhouse
entrance and the 20"x42" opening to the back of the helm seat.
So, actually quite open, but won't take much to put up a couple of
blackout curtains for night running.
Ted

psneeld said:

The galley down pic in post 136 seems to me the "normal galley down" arrangement as it is what was on every boat I looked at in the 40-45 range such as Albins, MTs, and some brands I don't remember maybe like Present. Not sure what the "other" type of galley down is and maybe a pic or floor plan would help people understand some of the opinions and issues.

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The other type of galley down arrangement we've seen has a bulkhead and "cover" over the aft end of the galley. So it is a compartment that is visually cut off from the main cabin.

I've been following this galley up-galley down thread with interest as I am still in search of my (dream) boat. On my dream boat it would be simple_ galley up would be on the fly bridge, galley down would be on the aft deck!! as on a dream boat the sky is always blue and the sea is always calm !!

Andy G said:

This is colloquially known as the bachelors galley

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Excellent! I am stealing that terminology.

healhustler said:

There are a few models out there with a single floor layout. My own boat has the salon, head, galley and stateroom on one level. The size of the galley allows for three actual countertop work stations when entertaining. Two can prepare gormet meals without interfering with each other. The window through to the salon allows one to be part of or separate from the action,..your preference. There are two pass through hatches in the ceiling, big enough for full sized dinner plates, that one can pass meals to the pilothouse. Headroom in the galley is 7 ft..

Everything is big on this boat, but the compromise for the space and single floor layout is that the pilothouse is a second deck affair, and is the only helm station. Unless one has the optional inside access, the standard pathway is out to the veranda and up a ladder through a close-able hatch. Normally, it's no real challenge, but in downpours or in rough seas, it can be. Here's a pic from the salon looking through the galley window, and a photo of the galley space.

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I really like the two stateroom layout in the manatee. Great use of space.

Wife (Admiral) - Only 1-2-3 tip-top requirements:

1. Well equipped galley-up in salon
2. Plenty large area windows all around
3. Master SR with queen bed, spacious private head, closet, bureau, storage draws & shelves! Our Tolly tri cabin fulfills those requirements perfectly!

I can sure live with those "commands" LOL!! Color them DONE!

Pretty much all other boat design and layout and accoutrements are up to me... ain't life GRAND!!!

Cheers - Art

Andy G said:

This is colloquially known as the bachelors galley

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Think I intimated this before, but any galley-down arrangement on any boat I own would end up being a "bachelor's galley."

jimbob said:

I've been following this galley up-galley down thread with interest as I am still in search of my (dream) boat. On my dream boat it would be simple_ galley up would be on the fly bridge, galley down would be on the aft deck!! as on a dream boat the sky is always blue and the sea is always calm !!

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There are a few boat, mostly express styling with the galley aft of the salon, designed just for the purpose you mention of dining on the aft deck plus integrating better with the grill. While breakfast and lunch are convenience meals, at least half of our dinners involve grilling.