From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Marin: "Seriously, though, the main thing I've noticed, both in boating and in flying, is that this whole region has gotten way more windy. "

I disagree. I recall regular Easter storms in the early 70s, two years in a row they were responsible for knocking out the docks where I kept my sailboat. Then by the early 90s, I had to go to the dark side because we hardly ever had enough wind to sail.

The forecasters have also changed their approach, due to fear of litigation. Now they almost never forecast less wind than you actually get. 30 years ago they were over 50% of the time and under 50% of the time. Today's forecasts should read "chance of" ahead of the prediction for wind speed, cause there is in fact a chance that the wind will reach predicted levels, but most often it doesn't.

For example, labor day weekend, we got away at 3:00 pm Friday afternoon to cross the gulf. The prediction was a "strong wind warning" that means over 20. We motored into a ".1m combined wind wave and swell" at Halibut bank ( that is under 4 inches), and virtually no wind all the way to Silva bay. Sure, the strong wind materialized after midnight, so the forecasters could say "told you". But to plan your day around it turned out to be a mistake.

Probably depends on where you are. I've lived 31 years now in the Seattle area and we get more and stronger wind these days than we did through the 80s. I've heard this from NOAA people, it's not just my own observation. Sure, there were plenty of big storms throughout the whole 31 years (like the Innauguration Day storm that flipped planes and did all sorts of damage). But the average wind speed has been creeping up for the past couple of decades. In Bellingham, particularly, where we keep our boat, there seem to be many more windy days (the active sailboaters in our marina love it) than there used to be.

Forecast inaccuracy and hedging is nothing new. I got all my pilot ratings (except seaplane) in Hawaii during the 1970s. Even back then you'd go to make a flight to another island, you could SEE the other island in the case of Molokai and it was obvious that good weather extended all the way down the chain, but when you'd call the FSS to file your flight plan (mandatory in Hawaii) nine times out of ten they'd tell you, "VFR not recommended." I was once so astonished by this piece of advice that I actually asked the FSS guy, "Do you guys have a window in your office?"


And when I started flying here in the 1980s, while I don't have much cause to talk to the FSS folks with flying a floatplane, when we'd take our longer flights up the Passage to SE Alaska on flight plans and flight notes, the FAA peole would usually drone out all sorts of dire predictions for the weather, most of which proved to be way over the top. For whatever reason the Canadians didn't do this--- they told us what was out there and most of the time it proved to be true.

Plus the marine forecast areas here, particularly for the islands, are quite large. For example the one that applies to our local cruising area is "Northern Waters." This encompasses all of the San Juans, the mainland coast from south of Anacortes on up to the border, the southern part of the Strait of Georgia, and the eastern part of San Juan Strait.* So in the "Northern Waters" you can have screaming winds on one side of an island and dead calm on the other side. So when they forecast winds of 15 to 25, which is the most common wind forecast these days (it used to be 5 to 15), you really can't use that to determine what the winds will be where you actually want to take your boat. It might be 25, it might be 5. Or it might be 35 in some spots where the islands funnel and accelerate winds down the passes between them.

So we use the local area forecast as a rough guide as to what conditions will be like generally in the islands and leave it at that. We've been gradually adding to our local knowledge over the last 12 years and so are starting to learn some of the patterns--- that if there's wind it's always much stronger here, and not as strong there, and comes from a different direction than the overall forecast over there, and so on. But it would take a lifetime of boating in these waters to get a really good grasp of what the winds (and currents) do on a localized basis throughout the islands.

-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 12th of September 2010 12:25:30 PM

I am learning a lot! Interesting comments about weather systems.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a good marina for our boat when we get it up there?* Any leads, for example, on someone else who might be interested in subletting a slip?* It is indeed a 3 year wait list at Bellingham.

Sorry BB * *...can't even get away from that in Alaska. We always have moorage for 23'boats, frequently 50', sometimes 30' and never 17' in the summer. We were in Everett and remember they had a good sublet system. They sublet our slip while we were on a
2 1/2 month trip up north and after we got back we had about one months free rent as they charged the subletter more that us and pased it on to us.
Marin, * *...liked your post about coming back to Puget Sound * *....so true. We look down from the airplane (or out from the deck of a ferry) and wonder how there could be people living there. All's well in the rain though * *...well maybe not now * *...Marin?

BaltimoreBlonde wrote:

I am learning a lot! Interesting comments about weather systems.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a good marina for our boat when we get it up there?* Any leads, for example, on someone else who might be interested in subletting a slip?* It is indeed a 3 year wait list at Bellingham.

Click to expand...

The Port of Bellingham also operates Blaine Marina, which is right up next to the Peace Arch border crossing.* They often have slips up there when there is nothing anywhere else in the area.* It's another half-hour or so drive north from Bellingham.* If you use your boat year round a fair amount it's (in our opinion) a less-than-ideal location as you have to cross a big (for here) exposed body of water--- the south end of the Strait of Georgia--- to get anywhere.* But it's certainly closer to the islands and "good stuff" farther north than Everett and points south.

There are several marinas in Anacortes. The big city marina is Cap Sante.* On the other side of the town, the Puget Sound side, there is another marina called Skyline.* And there are some smaller, private marinas along the Anacortes waterfront.

Another place to check is Oak Harbor on Whidbey Island.* Oak Harbor is on the inside of Whidbey (east shore) and there are two routes north--- one is via Deception Pass and the other is via the semi-man made Swinomish waterway that runs inland past La Conner and comes out near Anacortes.

There are marinas actually in the San Juans--- the two largest ones are Friday Harbor and Roche Harbor.* My guess is that they are perpetually full with long waiting lists but you never know.* There are two "major" marinas (but they're pretty small) on Orcas Island at Deer Harbor and West Sound.* Obviously keeping a boat in a marina in the islands requires a ferry or plane ride to get to them.

Everett has the largest marina on the west coast and they recently opened a new addition to it which, IIRC, is set up for larger boats.* Like 60' and up.* Everett is getting too far south for my preferences but it's farther north than Seattle.

There's a marina in Edmonds north of Seattle and then there is Seattle itself.* The two big salt water marinas in Seattle are Shilshole (city) and Elliot Bay Marina (private).* Slip fees in Seattle are roughly double or more what you pay up in Bellingham, Blaine, etc.

*

BaltimoreBlonde wrote:

We are hoping to eventually take it to the South Pacific, so we were looking for a real passagemaker.

We will probably keep it in California until next Spring, with frequent trips* to California over the winter for play dates for him and the boat.

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You are getting a real passagemaker, and with plans to cruise to the South Pacific, a trip up the coast to Washington should be a great way shake her out.* Were you purchacing a lesser boat, I might have a different opinion though.Taking a seasoned delivery skipper along may go a long way twords easing your concerns if your at all worried about the trip North. As for keeping the boat in California, make sure you look into the tax implications before making your final decision.* Many folks choose to spend time in Mexico to avoid the tax bite.* Washington will also want to collect tax depending on your length of stay.* It pays to be fully informed prior to signing the final check.* Enoy the process.............Arctic Traveller

*

Thank you for all that information about marinas.* We will definitely keep those thoughts in mind~ an in the computer, since its memory is more reliable than mine!

One of the reasons we have a time limit for getting it out of California is indeed the tax situation.* Good to have warning that Washington has similar regulations. We were not sure about that, and will investigate just what they are.* I am sure lots of people love cruising in Mexico, but Ihave to admit that as far as I am concerned, that is the wrong direction.** I want to go North!


We are most likely going to hire a professional* to get the boat North.* This is a big change from sailing and we have a lot to learn.

Ron went to California today for the survey and sea trial.* I am holding my breath, waiting to hear that it is everything he thought it was!

nomadwilly wrote:

BB,
On page 4 of Voyagers and other Boaters *... I posted a rather long thread (for this forum) on a trip up the coast from Puget Sound to SE Alaska. I'd be flattered if you were to read it.

*

Click to expand...

Well, I finally found the post!* I kept starting to look for it and getting sidetracked by another topic or some minor detail like work.* Sounds like an interesting trip. Maybe Mexico isn't such a bad idea after all.....

*

My understanding of the tax situation in Washington is this----

Since you are buying the boat out of state there are no Washington State sales taxes you will have to pay. But every boat in the state over a certain size/horsepower has to pay an annual registration fee. It doesn't matter if your boat is documented or not, you have to pay the registration fee.

The fee is based on the value of the boat but I have no idea how they compute this.

When you register your boat in Washington for the first time you will be issued a Washington State registration number, a "WN" number. If your boat is not documented, you have to display this number on the boat in a prescribed location. If your boat is documented, you cannot display the registration number even though you have one.

You will also be issued an annual registration sticker. This is a square thing with the expiration date on it and other info and it must be displayed on the exterior of the boat, documented or not.

Every year you have to pay the annual registration fee at which point they will issue you the new year's registration sticker.

The ony way out of paying the annual registration fee that I'm aware of is if you keep your boat in the state less than six months out of the year. In the case of the fellow with the slip we sublet for our first two winters with the boat, he took it to Sidney, BC in October and kept it there until some time in April.

Also, most marinas up here (and perhaps everywhere else) now require proof of insurance to keep your boat in one of their slips. This is to ensure the marina is protected in case you or your boat breaks the marina. Telling them you have insurance is not enough--- they want a copy of the policy. Our broker sends them one automatically every time our policy is renewed or they change our insurance company.

Some marinas allow you to work on the exterior of your boat in the slip, some don't. Squalicum Marina (Bellingham) does up to a point. You can sand, paint (within reason), varnish, do carpentry and fiberglass work, and so on. They draw the line at activities that could put pollutants in the water--- metal grinding is frowned upon--- or generate a lot of noise, sparks, fumes, etc. I would not be surprised if Elliot Bay Marina in Seattle, which is quite a bit more upmarket than Squalicum, is as tolerant of these kinds of activities.

Moorage fees may or may not include power. They don't in Bellingham. So if you keep electric heat on your boat during the winter, be prepared for the bill.

BB,

I also have that trip on Face Book. Find Eric Henning of Thorne Bay Alaska, look at my profile page and click on "notes". Also I have a 5 or 6 Photo Albums mostly of Alaska that you or other members here may like to see. More than a few of those pictures were taken on the "Long Way Home" trip/story/log.


PS
I think you can go on FB, look at my pics and story without joining FB but I'm not sure.
Do it and let me know please.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 14th of September 2010 09:41:39 AM

Marin wrote:

My understanding of the tax situation in Washington is this----

Click to expand...

The best way to determine what your possible tax liabilities are is to go to the Washington State Board of Equalization's web site and do some research.* Even better is to submit your questions to them and request a binding tax ruling** They can also be reached at 800 647 7706* It's very important to understand the rules, as a simple mistake can cost up to 8.5% of the value of the boat.* It's MY understanding that a boat owned by an individual and registered anywhere but Washington may be brought in to the state for sixty days tax free.* Prior to the sixty first day, you may purchase a permit allowing an additional sixty days tax free, and again prior to the permit expiring, you may purchase one more permit for another sixty days.* After that you must leave the state for at least six months.* A new law allows you to extend this to a period of one year, but at the end of the year, you must leave the state for a period of not less than three years.* Should you register the boat to a corporation (usually done to avoid taxes)* Washington see's this for what it usually is, and restricts you to only 60 days in state.* Should you make a single mistake, like failing to renew your permit and letting it expire for even one day, you become liable for the entire tax bill with penalties and interest tacked on too.* Should you happen to own any type of property in Washington, ignore the above, and pay the tax the first day you arrive as they consider you a resident. Even if you live elsewhere, they can consider you a "Duel Resident" of two states at one time.* My experience in this comes from managing several very expensive boats for out of state owners, and being responsible for following all the rules.* I'm not a tax lawyer, so this is simply my experience, and a binding tax ruling is your best defence against a huge and unexpected tax bill. Or, you could go a few miles over the border to Canada and avoid the whole problem, although they have a different set of rules, they are far more relaxed.* Know before you go............Arctic Traveller Marine Services

Canada is a very viable option. There are lots of marinas on the Fraser River and in Vancouver itself although I have no idea how expensive they are or how long a waiting period might be. There are some very nice marinas on Vancouver Island around Victoria and Sidney and between them.

However.... ArcticTraveler's advice to do some research applies to keeping a boat in Canada, too. We've met or know a high number of boaters who are Canadian citizens living in Canada but who keep their boats in the US (Point Robinson, Blaine, and Bellingham are three of the favored marinas for this) because there are tax and fee advantages to them. The disadvantage to them, they have told us, is that they cannot take their boats into Canada because the moment they cross the border they are legally required to pay all the fees and taxes they've been avoiding by keeping the boat south of the border. So they boat in the San Juans.

I don't know what the requirements are for a US citizen keeping a boat in Canada--- we've never met anyone who does this--- but it's something worth investigating.

Marin wrote:I don't know what the requirements are for a US citizen keeping a boat in Canada--- we've never met anyone who does this--- but it's something worth investigating.

Click to expand...

I've done this also with various yachts I run, and found it pretty easy to keep out of trouble.* As long as you are actively using the boat (don't use the words "storage or lay-up") things should be fine for at least a year, but as Marin said, do your own research before you commit yourself.* ...........Arctic Traveller Marine Services

*

I am very curious to hear how this ended?

BB: did you buy the boat?

general questions: what makes a boat more passageway'ish compared to coastal?

and also, how do you make the way to the south pacific in a boat like this one? i am thinking fuel burn/distance etc?

my one comment to making a trip like this would be that if you hired a skipper to navigate the boat for you, i would recommend making the trip with him/her. it is a great learning experience, you will learn more about the boat and the waters than many boaters learn in a lifetime of boating.

It has not ended yet, and won't for a long time, I hope!* It has just begun.* We did buy the boat, a Nordhavn 46.* She is in Long Beach right now, but soon will head to Mexico to avoid California sales tax.* Where to go from there, and when, is still an open discussion.* I am still lobbying for heading North and exploring the Pacific Norhwest, but we might play in Mexico a bit first.

The boat is designed for long ocean voyages, and others like this have actually done cirucumnavigations.

We are not ready to head out into the wide Pacific yet, that is fur shur.

Still would appreciate any comments, thoughts, or suggestions!

When you get to Thorne Bay please drop in. Thorne Bay is 45mi. NW of Ketchikan.
The Nordhavn 46 is my #1 dreamboat.

Thanks for the invite.* Hope we get that far North!* And I hope we have heat in the boat by then, too.* Since she was built for Souther California, the original owner did not see the need for it.

we are in long beach (alamitos bay marina).
had a look at that 46' Nordhavn, my oh my.. nice.
and with that range i see you can cruise far.

my accountant did the Mexico thing with his boat, guess there is a good deal of savings on the CA sales tax.

Well, it sounds like we are neighbors! ( I mean when we are there. At the moment we are just wishing we were. We are awaiting the next ice storm here in Maryland)
Where are you and what is your boat's name? *How long have you been there? *We are thinking about trying to get back to Alamitos Marina after our sojourn in Mexico. *Do you know anyone who might be interested in subletting his slip in about 6 months?

i am guessing you need a 40 or 45' slip? will def ask around and let you know..
and quite often i see postings on the posting wall at the marina office, that is also how we found our slip last summer. we are in basin 6 across from the Tantalum restaurant.
we would love to come wish you bon voyage so hit me me up when/before you are ready to head south.

I apologize for not responding sooner. I somehow missed that you had sent a notel.
We are currently in a 45' slip, and it is pretty snug.* I am sure there is no way we could manage a 40 foot one.* Maybe even a 50!*

Ron will be on the boat next week, arriving Tuesday. I will be in Baltimore, I am sad to say.

Are you Norwegian?

What is your boat's name?

I am from Denmark.
Our boat is named Freedom, we are in a 35' slip which is a tight fit but workable.
The so cal weather has been nice lately, low 70's sometimes even 80, Ron will enjoy.
Keep us updated on your progress.

Damn... I've been away too long.* Gratz on your new N46!* Before we sold our Vantare (which was docked in Cabrillo Marina in San Pedro), we actually had an order in for the N60.* Unfortunately, a medical condition and business downturn forced us to opt out of the purchase and sell our boat.

Not sure how much shakedown time you've had on the N46, but 2 of the best trips we took on the Vantare were long weekends in San Diego and a week or so in Ensenada.* Just exit LB harbor and point the boat toward the outer oil rigs, and enjoy the trip.* You'll get plenty of blue water for the boat to show her stuff, and you get both a downhill and uphill ride to evaluate her.

Ensenada is a great trip, with nice dock accommodations at the Coral Hotel and Marina, just north of downtown Ensenada.* It's secure, the docks are nice, the hotel food is good, and it's only about a 10 minute cab ride to downtown, if you want/need to go.* This is a good trip is you'll need to take on fuel, since fuel is still cheaper in MX than the US, and the hotel has its own nice fuel dock.

You clear Customs in SD on the trip north, and you can overnight on the Customs dock if you need some rest... which you probably will after beating north.* They don't call it the Baja Bash for nothing

Best of luck and enjoy the boat.* If you've any questions about SoCal cruising, don't hesitate to drop a line.

Moving my boat from San Fransisco to Seattle

Hello everybody, I am a new member of Trawler Forum. I have purchased a 42 ft. trawler in San Leandro California and would like to have the boat transported by freighter or vessel designed to transport boats on a submersable deck. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

It will be a lot cheaper I think to have it trucked up. That's what we did in 1998 with the GB36 we bought in Alameda. We used Associated Boat Transport. They are arguably the best marine trucking outfit on the west coast although they cover the whole country. http://www.associatedboat.com/

The cost at the time was about $4,000. The trip took three days.

They did say that the GB36 is the largest of the GB models that can be trucked without removing the flying bridge, at least for the route they used with our boat, but if you're interested I would talk directly to them about this.

They preferred to take the boat to Tacoma as they said there are some bridge clearances that can be iffy north of Tacoma. We had the boat taken to a yard there, had some work done on it, and then ran it up to Bellingham on its own bottom.

After having my boat shipped from China to Oakland, I doubt shipping from the Bay Area is a good idea. My shipping agent said that from after shipping the Coot (because they ended up losing money although paid the price of a median-cost automobile), they'd only arrange shipping to Long Beach or Seattle. Could be a matter of the unions in the Bay Area, but regardless, the cost is quite high. Yes, go my truck.

Why not fill it with fuel, make it ready and take off North? Hire a delivery skipper if you are not comfortable doing it yourself

sunchaser said:

Why not fill it with fuel, make it ready and take off North? Hire a delivery skipper if you are not comfortable doing it yourself

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It would be too easy to drive the boat yourself, learning the boats systems and having a good time along the way.

The first boat I brought home to Alaska back in 2003 I'd been on twice. Once to look at it, once for the survey. Bought a buddy an airplane ticket and we flew to Seattle. Got a cab/van stopped at the store and bought some grub and took off for Alaska some 1500 NM away. I had some tools, and some spare parts, and exactly two seasons of boating under my belt.

The second boat I brought home to Alaska I had a major refit done on, so I actually spent a week on the boat checking her out, and learning the systems. The next spring had a pallett of stuff shipped to the boat, arrived with my adult son, went to the grocery store, bought some grub and headed for Alaska. This time the boat was much better equipped, both from my week on board and all the other "boat stuff" I had shipped to it.

I would NEVER consider trucking my boat somewhere that I could drive her to. Bringing a boat home is a learning adventure. Its something to enjoy.

ksanders said:

It would be too easy to drive the boat yourself, learning the boats systems and having a good time along the way.

The first boat I brought home to Alaska back in 2003 I'd been on twice. Once to look at it, once for the survey. Bought a buddy an airplane ticket and we flew to Seattle. Got a cab/van stopped at the store and bought some grub and took off for Alaska some 1500 NM away. I had some tools, and some spare parts, and exactly two seasons of boating under my belt.

The second boat I brought home to Alaska I had a major refit done on, so I actually spent a week on the boat checking her out, and learning the systems. The next spring had a pallett of stuff shipped to the boat, arrived with my adult son, went to the grocery store, bought some grub and headed for Alaska. This time the boat was much better equipped, both from my week on board and all the other "boat stuff" I had shipped to it.

I would NEVER consider trucking my boat somewhere that I could drive her to. Bringing a boat home is a learning adventure. Its something to enjoy.

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Couldn't agree more. With today's electronics and the overwhelming amount of information available at hour fingertips, there's no real reason to be so fearful of long coastal transits.

Sure- things may go wrong, just as they could in your favorite cruising grounds. Deal with it!

I routinely took 23' single engined fishing boats 50+ miles offshore in search of tuna- taking a 46' trawler should not pose too much challenge. We plan to take our boat to Mexice and beyond I the coming years- it'll be her 3rd trip down the coast.