New Long Thin, Hyper-Efficient Trawler

Hi Everyone,

I've been tracking Trawler and long range passage maker designs for the past 5 years with the plan of eventually buying one for family exploration around the world.

I've recently come across one that look pretty good for my application. I was wondering what other people think of this new design - what do you see as the strengths and weaknesses. I'm looking for input from more experienced cruisers - since I have yet to do any long distance cruising:

It has a range of about 6,000 miles but only burns a few gallons of fuel per hour.

Here are the details and an image below:

https://twitter.com/ArtnauticaYacht

I like it. I also found some construction pictures.

Artnautica LRC58 - Boat Design Net Gallery

Looks like a knock-off of the Dashew boats which have been around a long time now.

SetSail

The boat looks good ,

But I would prefer hawse holes to carry the anchors , and get rid of that bow ram, an accident waiting to happen.

Well, looks wise, I think its pretty sharp. But..
I seems like it only has the space of a 35-40 ft boat.
If it really is a 'passagemaker' and you will be using it in that capacity, you most likely will need stabilization of some sort.
If you want it for putzing around coastally and spending time in ports, you'd be much happier with a smaller boat that has the same amount of interior room and gets the same mileage.

There are considerably more photos on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Artnautica-Yacht-Design-Ltd/300243140002724?fref=ts

William Garden has designed long, narrow efficient cruisers in the past. They sell at a huge discount on the resale market because they don't align with marina slip dimensions and provide rather poor livability to cost ratio. Maybe if diesel were $10 to $20 per gallon it would start to make sense for more than 1 in a thousand boaters.

New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler

caltexflanc said:

Looks like a knock-off of the Dashew boats which have been around a long time now.

SetSail

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Yes - definitely shares some similar design elements to the FPB series from Steve Dashew - but a very different design philosophy.

This new design is really focusing on cost-efficiency at all levels. The purchase price for one of these new designs (The Artnautica 58) has been estimated at $600,000. Steve Dashews' designs start at around $2.5 Million for his 64 foot boat.

I love the Dashew boats - but the price is so high. I really want to try to understand what exactly I'm giving up by going with the Artnautica design - when compared to the Dashew boat.

Yes - I'm thinking paravanes - but perhaps active stabilizers.

I'm far from an offshore cruiser, but wouldn't you be very concerned about getting hit broadside by a decent sized wave in this type of design?

LRC58Fan said:

I love the Dashew boats - but the price is so high. I really want to try to understand what exactly I'm giving up by going with the Artnautica design - when compared to the Dashew boat.

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Well, the price per pound of the boats (when you subtract out the eye popping fuel and water which total about 1/3 of the displacement for both boats) isn't that much different: $32.40 for the Artnautica, $49.29 for the FPB 64.

The Dashew appears very well finished inside - I doubt the Artnautica would be finished to that level. Beyond that, there are probably hundreds of differences, but are they important to you? For instance, the Artnautica (drawings) lack any kind of railing aft of the forward deck - that would scare the crap out of me but your appetite for danger might be different. And that raised seat aft of the house...

New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler

refugio said:

William Garden has designed long, narrow efficient cruisers in the past. They sell at a huge discount on the resale market because they don't align with marina slip dimensions and provide rather poor livability to cost ratio. Maybe if diesel were $10 to $20 per gallon it would start to make sense for more than 1 in a thousand boaters.

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Yes - people have done a cost analysis of the added length and its impact on the cost of the slip costs - but if you are actually using the boat a significant amount of time (the only reason to have this type of boat I think) then its a small percent of the costs. Here is that analysis: Artnautica 58—Design Analysis

So - that doesn't bother me. And I think the resale market will change significantly over the next decade as fuel prices go up and the bias will be towards more fuel efficient boats.

And as far as fuel prices - we all know the trend and if you're planning around the world cruising - it makes a difference - especially if you want to sell the boat in 10 or 15 years.

The designer / builder says that is designed for surviving roll-overs. He's building the first boat for his own use and will be using it as a live-aboard/global cruiser for a while. So it will be interesting to get his real-world perspective. And I believe a second hull is already being constructed so we'll have multiple data points pretty soon.

And as others have mentioned - the design is not so different from the Dashew FPB design - which has almost a decade and hundreds of thousands of miles of passage making under her keel. http://setsail.com

LRC58Fan said:

it will be interesting to get his real-world perspective.http://setsail.com

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I think you mean "sales pitch"......not that there's anything wrong with that....

Well, I did use the term "knock off". It will be interesting to see what the price becomes after full testing is done.

The FPB and its clones are purpose built boats for circumnavigators and/or those who want to explore very remote places. Fuel efficiency is primarily for range, secondarily for economy. Reading the Dashew's excellent blogs and sales web site gives you a better idea for the considerations regarding safety and seaworthiness.

LRC58Fan said:

Yes - I'm thinking paravanes - but perhaps active stabilizers.

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Think gyro. Stabilization underway, at anchor and at the dock. No deployment issues, no drag or break away issues. Needs a bit of AC power to drive it.

FF said:

The boat looks good ,

But I would prefer hawse holes to carry the anchors , and get rid of that bow ram, an accident waiting to happen.

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Do you ram things with your existing bow a lot now?

That $600,00 price is just a come on. At the end of the day the cost to build one of these will be within pennies per lb of the Dashew boats, probably more. And the pounds will go up once all of the passagmaking equipment has been added.

This boat seems to be an exercise in cuteness and fuel efficiency. The Dashew boats have been thought through by a world passagemaker to stand up to that kind of service. Once a couple of hulls of the Artnautica have a couple of circumnavigations under their keels and have been redesigned to take that into account that experience I would consider one. Otherwise save your money for a FPB.

David

Capt.Bill11 said:

Think gyro. Stabilization underway, at anchor and at the dock. No deployment issues, no drag or break away issues. Needs a bit of AC power to drive it.

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Add the weight of the gyro, the generator to run it, and the fuel for the generator....then up the main engine to compensate for increased drag due to increased displacement, and make the hull a bit bigger to compensate.....and so it goes until you end up with a 100,000 monster.

The boat has a mast and poles to tow paravanes, simple and relatively inexpensive.

djmarchand said:

That $600,00 price is just a come on. At the end of the day the cost to build one of these will be within pennies per lb of the Dashew boats, probably more. And the pounds will go up once all of the passagmaking equipment has been added.

This boat seems to be an exercise in cuteness and fuel efficiency. The Dashew boats have been thought through by a world passagemaker to stand up to that kind of service. Once a couple of hulls of the Artnautica have a couple of circumnavigations under their keels and have been redesigned to take that into account that experience I would consider one. Otherwise save your money for a FPB.

David

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Or buy/build something that is not so butt ugly, and get a boat with generous, useable and safe outside deck area. Think 4 star beach resort versus 5 star Las Vegas hotel suite.

The FPB's are targeted at rich old farts, who don't go outside and like the AC to keep the climate just-so. Good luck to them, and to Steve for meeting the need. If I did ever win the lottery I would be more likely to pick a Nordhavn. Mind you, most of those are high, fat and slow, bloated - and ugly also. Tad, the world desperately needs someone to get one of your 56 or 80 into the water.

And another thing. If you are that concerned about oil price get something like the Kadey Krogen 42. There are two of them crossing oceans right now. Not for me, I'd want more boat. But the KK's are getting over 4nm/g. For any given trip the FPB or its knockoff will have a much, much higher fuel bill.

That feels better, I'm now going to chill for the rest of the day on my old tub....

Tad Roberts said:

Add the weight of the gyro, the generator to run it, and the fuel for the generator....then up the main engine to compensate for increased drag due to increased displacement, and make the hull a bit bigger to compensate.....and so it goes until you end up with a 100,000 monster.

The boat has a mast and poles to tow paravanes, simple and relatively inexpensive.

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The only pictures I saw of it did not show that it was set up for paravanes. I guess you could set it up either way.

It's going to have a Genset anyway I assume. But I could be wrong. But if I'm not then the only added weight would be the gyro. Plus you would have to take in account drag from the vanes, no?

I see your points. But I still like the gyro.

New Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler

Yes - its set up for paravanes (see image below). I think the goal is to have the boat as simple as possible - to minimize problems, and so that the typical owner can do their own repairs if there are repairs. Toilet is pump, not electric, as is the shower. The starting point - much like Dashew - is much more a sailboat-like design, than a downsized full displacement trawler design. I think this is the right approach - my key competitive approach that I'm considering is really a sailboat - not a full displacement trawler - just because they are too expensive (and don't have as good rough sea performance as the long-thin designs).

Tad - I think that this design is actually very similar to your own in many ways, philosophically at least, if not exactly in implementation. I like your designs a great deal also.

PassagemakerLite 56 fast, seaworthy, fuel-efficient long-range ocean cruiser ~ Power Boat Designs by Tad Roberts

This design uses only a single 75 hp engine - vs. your 56 ft design of your with two of these engines.

new Long Range, Hyper Efficient Trawler

Oops - forgot the image of the ArtNautica 58 with paravane poll design:

Insequent said:

And another thing. If you are that concerned about oil price get something like the Kadey Krogen 42. There are two of them crossing oceans right now. Not for me, I'd want more boat. But the KK's are getting over 4nm/g. For any given trip the FPB or its knockoff will have a much, much higher fuel bill.

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Hey Brian....Thanks for the vote and I hope the world is treating you well. We're just winding down the longest-hottest summer in recent memory.

Your point is well taken, the will to go is far more important than the particular vessel, and you don't need a million$ boat to cross an ocean....But that doesn't sell many new boats....

I actually would not like the windows in the hull, nor would I like the lack of a view when I was inside the boat. I looked at Fisher motorsailers while shopping and the windows are more to let in light than to see out of. Not what I go out on the water to enjoy. There appears to be a tremendous amount of wasted space on the exterior of the boat and very little useable space on the exterior. An unfortunate combination. Fishing off the stern looks like it's best activity, other than cruising while in the cabin. The wrong compromises for me...

Capt.Bill11 said:

The only pictures I saw of it did not show that it was set up for paravanes. I guess you could set it up either way.

It's going to have a Genset anyway I assume. But I could be wrong. But if I'm not then the only added weight would be the gyro. Plus you would have to take in account drag from the vanes, no?

I see your points. But I still like the gyro.

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Oh no question the Seakeeper is nice bit of kit, but.....it takes discipline to create light boats that burn little fuel. I have found few folks are serious when it comes right down to it. They want space and comfort, toys, ease of use, and room for extras. There will always be a few outliers, the long and skinny and the short and fat, but most will buy something middle-of-the-road.

It's a bit difficult to nail down exactly what will be in the Artnautica, but going through the Facebook pictures I found no mention of a generator or AC, so I assumed no genny.

The paravanes do drag when deployed, but not when aboard the boat. And (depending on the details) the poles and vanes would be lighter than the gyro. One of the major benefits of paravanes is anyone can maintain and repair them......

At least with that big, open transom, it won't need scuppers if "pooped" like Dauntless!

LRC58Fan said:

This design uses only a single 75 hp engine - vs. your 56 ft design of your with two of these engines.

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The power is a minimum, he'll be doing well to get 12 knots I think. My 56' is close to 20,000 pounds heavier so a different boat. But respect to Mr. Harjamaa for actually building her and we'll see when she's launched

Tad Roberts said:

It's a bit difficult to nail down exactly what will be in the Artnautica, but going through the Facebook pictures I found no mention of a generator or AC, so I assumed no genny.

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No A/C in a metal boat with big windows!? Good luck with that in the tropics.

One of his Facebook post interactions his friend chides him for no AC. His basic reply was learn how to suck it up and go native.