Aquadrive System

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IF the boat is not used for a while , it may take 5 min of shaking for the CV joints to wake up and do their job.

No big deal , just be aware it does happen., and will go away with no effort .
 
Sounds like it will fix a lot of issues for you. Which model of Aquadrive are they recommending for the twin Lehman 120's.

A new model the 6070025. I'd attach a pic they sent with dimensions but can't figure out how! Lol
 
If you think about it transmitting all the trust generated at the propellor, through the shaft, gear box, engine, and then into the hull really does not seem logical and being able to transfer the thrust into the hull as soon as possible appears to be a better engineering solution and should also reduce load on the engine/transmission.

Wonder it it would be practical to use spring mounts similar to generator use in a building for vibration isolation which would isolate 99% of all engine vibration.
 
Yes all the thrust goes to the thrust bearings in the gearbox and 1/4 of that goes to each mount.

Then there's the heaving, pitching and yawing. But the biggest engine movement that produces vibration is probably torsional. Think of a mouse running around the clock taking several steps fwd and then one backwards. And doing it several thousand times a minute. That's why we call it revolutions per minute ... not minutes. RPM is only about what happens in one minute. The expression rpm's is nonsense as a result.

There's something else that may have an effect on vibration and that's the preloading of the mounts from engine torque. Torque results in a force opposite from the torque itself. I think I stated that correctly. So if one had a CCW rotating engine (top of the flywheel moving left as seen from the rear) the force of torque would present a force that pushes down on the stbd engine mounts in fwd gear and down on the port side in reverse gear. That force can be calculated. So on one side the engine mounts are seeing more downward pressure than on the other side. The gear ratio and diameter of the prop has a lot of effect on the amount of downward force from torque on one side and an equal upward force on the other side. Those forces in combination w the weight of the engine result in the effective downward force on each engine mount.

I know engine mounts are classified or rated on how much weight they would support when attached to an engine and a boat. If a pair (L & R) engine mounts are mounted to a bell housing and a point fwd on the engine much more weight will be on the aft mounts especially if a long and heavy transmission like a BW is employed. During my repower I moved my aft mounts back alongside the gearbox to more evenly distribute the engine weight and provide more pitch and yaw stability. So all four of my mounts are rated the same. Probably one of the reasons Willy is rather smooth. If the aft mounts were attached to the bell housing they would be required to carry more weight. Like two 75lb mounts fwd and two 125lb mounts aft.

Now here's my question. Would the torque w a 3-1 gear be enough to warrant different weight load ratings port and stbd. And would fwd gear only be considered ... I would think that would be a given. And I assume this would be largely dependent on the variety of weight ratings of mounts. Has anything like this ever been done or considered?

This is even more of a think tank question/post for me than usual. There's probably a good chance I'll get no response as nobody will make it all the way through the post.
 
You are correct that the torque is multiplied by the gear ratio, and that can squash the mounts on one side, and unload the ones on the other side. But this only occurs when the engine is at a high power setting. Given the typical straight six, that engine makes some serious vibes at 3 hits per rev down close to idle. That is where it is important for the engine to "float". At idle, there is also little torque going down the shaft. So when needed the most, the engine floats the best. Add power and the rpms go up, but the vibes go down, so even if the mounts hit the limits of their travel, it causes little vibe to enter boat structure.

All commercially available resilient mounts are designed to float the engine within a certain force per mount. Once that force exceeds a certain level, it starts to "ground", but gradually. Same if force is reduced. But as described, usually when package is making serious torque and mounts beginning to ground, engine is also at point that it is making very little vibe.

If running a 4cyl without balance shafts, it has a nasty second order vibration that increases with rpm, unlike the smooth six. In that case the grounded mounts can cause the rather obnoxious vibe to enter the hull. As a 2x vibe, it ends up being detected more as a noise vs a vibe.

Designing a mount system for a 3cyl or 4cyl is much more of a challenge. A six is super easy as at cruise rpm it makes almost no vibes. Inherently smooooooth. Except at idle!!
 
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Now here's my question. Would the torque w a 3-1 gear be enough to warrant different weight load ratings port and stbd. And would fwd gear only be considered ... I would think that would be a given. And I assume this would be largely dependent on the variety of weight ratings of mounts. Has anything like this ever been done or considered?

This is even more of a think tank question/post for me than usual. There's probably a good chance I'll get no response as nobody will make it all the way through the post.

Eric,

As you know, Yanmar marine diesels are known for their rather soft engine mounts. Some have different mounts left and right. For example, the 4JH3E has mounts rated at '150' on the port side and '200' on the starboard side. This is to counteract the torque when operating normally in forward gear. I don't know what those ratings represent numerically, but they do relate to stiffness. On the 4JH3E, the engine mounts are the same regardless of transmission type or gear ratio. The turbo version of the this engine uses '200' port and starboard. They are supposedly tuned to each particular engine.

Larry
M/V Boomarang
 
Wonder it it would be practical to use spring mounts similar to generator use in a building for vibration isolation which would isolate 99% of all engine vibration.

Fisheries boats that attempt to be very quiet for fish counting use a simple setup.

The mount the engine on a heavy frame with floating mounts , then mount the frame , on floating mounts to the vessel.

National Fisherman has drawings .

Takes lots of engineering to handle the motion of everything hooked on the engine, and only works well at some speeds and engine RPM.
 
FF,
That's interesting about the National Fisherman ... they have some good stuff from time to time.
Re the spring mounted engine side and fore and aft forces are not dealt w w springs well. And I think they are only practical when the torque is contained within a unit like a gen set. If one had the main engine hooked to a hydraulic pump springs may work. I did an experiment quite a few years ago building a wood cage frame around the engine and rigging springs in tension from above to carry the weight of the engine so my very flexable Yanmar mounts only had to handle the vibration and not the weight of the engine. Didn't seem to make much difference. I had high hopes the overhead springs could make my 3 cyl as smooth as an eight. I wanted to get to the "what vibration" point. Was a big effort for something that flat didin't work.

Larry,
Yes indeed those Yanmar mounts are very soft. I ran a Yanmar in my previous boat. My fwd and aft mounts were load rated different. Before the Aqua Drive the prop shaft would really get whipping around .. to the point where it would rattle against the stern tube. Not good. Another reason I went to the AD. The thing that amazes me most about the soft Yanmar mounts is that they recommended replacing them every two years.

Ski n NC,
Thanks Ski that's what I was really looking for. Wondering if anybody really thought about this stuff and attached any mental energy to it. I think this explains it best "But this only occurs when the engine is at a high power setting". However most FD boat engines should be at high power (50 to 80%) most all the time. Excluding SD trawlers that operate at 25 to 40%.
Another point you make that's a good one is "So when needed the most, the engine floats the best". In engineering sometimes one just gets lucky.
About the six cyl engine smoothness they are certainly much smoother than a three or four but I don't think you get serious smoothness w less than 8 cylinders unless balancers are used. There are 6 cyl engines that are smooth but none are light. I just bought an 8 cyl PU truck (350 GMC) w stick shift and am amazed at how smooth it is lugging around in top gear. Someone just said the smoothness of the Lehman goes south past 1800rpm. I know from an engineering and theoretical viewpoint the six is smooth but in a seat of the pants real world there's nothing like an 8 ... straight or bent.

Thanks all for reading my post and responding.
 
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Most of the engine mount MFG folks will give the weight loading per mount .

Some also have torque specs .

Look at the No Noise site for an idea.
 
Sounds like it will fix a lot of issues for you. Which model of Aquadrive are they recommending for the twin Lehman 120's.

Thanks for the heads up on how to add the pics. Here's the drawing from Aquadrive. (hope it worked...lol)
 

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Rick I'm curious what was the cost for your vessel?
Thanks,
Bill
 
I had a Aqua and know about the Python but haven't heard or have had experience w Python. I wouldn't buy either one w only 2 ears to mount to the thrust bearing mount. It's just too hard to align. Little or no control over pitch attitude. Buy one w 4 ears only. Just my suggestion though.
 
The two eared versions work fine. I have a buddy who installed one in his boat a couple years ago. He was having problems with vibration and shaft alignment and that's all gone away.

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Thanks Rick also fine on your comments about the 2 ear system working okay for your buddy. I need to look I believe my Velvet drives have some kind of rubber shaft coupler system already.
Next time I visit the boat I'll check.
Bill
 
$945 Cdn Bill.

I've documented everything I've spent on our blog.

M/V She:Kon: She:Kon Spent to Date

Once the spreadsheet loads there are tabs at the bottom. Look in the 'Engineering' tab.
Hard to know for sure what I'm comparing, but the Python drive sized for Delfin indicates quite a bit higher load capacity than the one recommended by Aqua Drive.

Where are these manufactured? Their web site is kind of hard to figure out.
 
The two eared versions work fine. I have a buddy who installed one in his boat a couple years ago. He was having problems with vibration and shaft alignment and that's all gone away.

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What's that crazy plumbing all about in the fore left of the photo?
 
What's that crazy plumbing all about in the fore left of the photo?
I once did a test in the Navy Clearance Diver school called 'The Plumbers Nightmare'. Kinda reminds me of that! :ermm:
 
Gentlemen

Here is mine and for the first 25 engine hours it worked very well. No noises, no vibrations, no shocks. Very smooth!
Yet, make sure that all washers are in place as recommended by the manufacture

Rgs
Portuguese
 

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What's that crazy plumbing all about in the fore left of the photo?

With what looks like Home Cheapo brass plumbing fittings , could it be the battery for the engine room lights?
 
She-Kon wrote;
"The two eared versions work fine."

Yes they do .... if one gets the thrust bearing bulkhead installed in perfect alignment. With the two ear bearings one can adjust alignment in yaw but not in pitch. That's the only potential problem w the two ear that I know of.
 
She-Kon wrote;
"The two eared versions work fine."

Yes they do .... if one gets the thrust bearing bulkhead installed in perfect alignment. With the two ear bearings one can adjust alignment in yaw but not in pitch. That's the only potential problem w the two ear that I know of.
Eric, I'm confused. Wouldn't the flexible drive take care of misalignment of the bulkhead?
 
Eric, I'm confused. Wouldn't the flexible drive take care of misalignment of the bulkhead?

The shaft handles misalignment between the shaft and the transmission but the thrust bearing has to be properly aligned with the shaft.
 
Aquadrive systems use a CV type of u-joint, not the type of open u-joint in Mark Pierce's boat.

See Aquadrive
I was hoping Mark Price would comment on this. His boat and mine are Seahorse Marine manufactured. I believe we both have the open U joint configuration you mention. The system looks very similar to the Aquadrive system. I have been trying to find documentation on my system but have not found any so far. It seems to be proprietary Seahorse system. I had a problem with the system when i first started using my boat. The bolts that secured the U joint and the flange to the transmisson would become lose after a bit of use. Seahorse sent me a locking flange that fit over the bolts. It had tabs on it that are bent around the nuts to keep them secure. Perhaps Mark can comment on this. Otherwise, the system has had no issues since i got the boat in 2010.
 
'azubair,
How does the open joint handle plunging motion? Thrust?
 
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