Soldering battery terminals

Here's something that may interest a few...from Trojan Batteries.

And before any tech wannabee's start talking hard points, etc....the life of a battery cable in m Ford F250 lives a much harder life than my trawler batteries.

The infrared shots really tell the story...well maybe not...would love to see many different crimps and terminal ends before I made any final judgements.

So have at it...another hornet's nest to dive into....

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/WP_BatteryCableGuide_0512.pdf


mechanically crimped but also soldered to the cable’s end."

You sure like the hornets nest.
It is interesting that they are recommending the crimped and soldered terminals. Not one but both. I think that is the key here, both crimped and soldered. Trojan has been doing this along time so I would hope they know what they are doing. Also, even though it is not mentioned, using the correct crimper should be key also. Seems that most of the cables that I have seen that have failed at the crimp, it was because they were done with the wrong tool. Wonder if this conflicts with ABYC?

It would have been nice to show a hi res photo of that crimped connection.

I know Trojan has been pushing the correct torque values but this is the first for using solder. Thanks.

Here are a few pictures of just crimped and crimped/soldered lugs.

Only four it's so far- oh , I see. It started 36 minutes ago, so we have plenty of time left to have a full blown debate. Didn't we answer this question already !!


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

OK I am lost, in making a crimped and soldered cable, do you crimp first and then solder, or solder then crimp? I am thinking that if you solder then crimp the crimp will crack the solder.

Bay Pelican said:

OK I am lost, in making a crimped and soldered cable, do you crimp first and then solder, or solder then crimp? I am thinking that if you solder then crimp the crimp will crack the solder.

Click to expand...

My preference would be to first crimp, then solder.

Definitely Crimp first and then solder. After crimping then heat the connection to allow the solder to flow, don't heat the solder.

jwnall said:

My preference would be to first crimp, then solder.

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Yes. We crimped, drilled a small hole and then filled with solder. You can see the hole in pic 1. It's amazing how much solder goes into the lug.

Good thing the internet didn't exist when tubeless tires came out.

And good for you PS, keeps the hits coming.

Bay Pelican said:

OK I am lost, in making a crimped and soldered cable, do you crimp first and then solder, or solder then crimp? I am thinking that if you solder then crimp the crimp will crack the solder.

Click to expand...

Of course you will but some people do it that way. It's going to fail at some point but if the engine starts, they think they've done good.

It maybe better but crimping is good enough IMO . Their or shots showed temps well below the melting point of solder and way below that of lead.

The method for soldering battery lugs (which by the way is specifically allowed for by AByC) is to use solder slugs. See links within this link for the how-to's. I really don't see how one could effectively crimp the solder a proper battery lug. Or the need to.

Terminal Solder Slugs

Here's the ABYC section:

11.16.3.7. Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.
EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.
NOTE: When a stranded conductor is soldered, the soldered portion of the conductor becomes a solid strand conductor, and flexing can cause the conductor to break at the end of the solder joint unless adequate additional support is provided.

I used a slug once when rewiring a windlass cable. I didn't have the right crimper and didn't want to buy one just for that one connector. Worked out OK, had the cable really tied down.

caltexflanc said:

The method for soldering battery lugs (which by the way is specifically allowed for by AByC) is to use solder slugs. See links within this link for the how-to's. I really don't see how one could effectively crimp the solder a proper battery lug. Or the need to.

Terminal Solder Slugs

Click to expand...

Neat! Never had heard of solder slugs before, but watched the installation video at the link, and it looks easy enough to do.

Thanks!

Crimping (with the correct tool and lugs) is a task easily learned. Soldering is an art. I used to solder nearly every day, sometimes hundreds of connections in a day. When I read some people's suggestions on how they do it, I cringe.

If you plan on soldering your battery cables, study hard, get the right tools, and practice over and over until you get it right. And don't set your boat on fire with the torch.

The point of the OP was to learn to do both correctly for the best joint possible...if you want to debate that feel free to contact Trojan....

jwnall said:

Never had heard of solder slugs before, but watched the installation video at the link, and it looks easy enough to do.

Click to expand...

Although, if I used the solder slug method, I would still want to crimp the lug in addition, just as a precaution. Shouldn't be a big deal, though. Do it their way, then crimp, then reheat the lug again to let the solder flow anew.
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So far as the danger of burning the boat up (or down, depending on your orientation I suppose) don't know about other people but I always make battery cables at home, where I have a good workshop with a heavy-duty vise on the workbench, hacksaw handy, etc, etc.

jwnall said:

......... Shouldn't be a big deal, though. Do it their way, then crimp, then reheat the lug again to let the solder flow anew.

Click to expand...

That's an example of how not to solder. If you think you need to do both, crimp, then solder.

We sometimes find we need to attach the lugs after the cables have been run. They may be running through a bulkhead or in a conduit and won't fit with the lugs attached.

Suggest going back and reading the Compass Marine article on battery cables. It's those 1/2azzed crimps done with stuff like hammer crimps that Trojan is rightly worried about.
A proper crimp creates a completely solid bond.

Making Your Own Battery Cables Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

caltexflanc said:

.......... A proper crimp creates a completely solid bond.

Click to expand...

Yes it does with no place for solder to flow.

Just completed an entire House Battery bank and box replacement, and Crimp & Solder is the way I do it. Granted, it is not easy and takes a lot longer, but I still feel the very low impedance of a large soldered battery terminal trumps the crimp-only approach.

I Never worry about any connection ever even getting warm, as long as I check the nut torque occasionally. And, as you can see, I am a Trojan fan...


I also agree with psneeld, my vehicles take a lot more pounding than my House Batts.

I love it when a plan comes together.....

Delta_JimS said:

Just completed an entire House Battery bank and box replacement, and Crimp & Solder is the way I do it. Granted, it is not easy and takes a lot longer, but I still feel the very low impedance of a large soldered battery terminal trumps the crimp-only approach.

I Never worry about any connection ever even getting warm, as long as I check the nut torque occasionally. And, as you can see, I am a Trojan fan...


I also agree with psneeld, my vehicles take a lot more pounding than my House Batts.

Click to expand...

Where's the fuse ?

Delta_JimS said:

Just completed an entire House Battery bank and box replacement, and Crimp & Solder is the way I do it. Granted, it is not easy and takes a lot longer, but I still feel the very low impedance of a large soldered battery terminal trumps the crimp-only approach. .......

Click to expand...

I think you're fooling yourself with that "very low impedance" thing but if it makes you feel better, that's what counts.

For your installation you could have purchased the cables and terminals from genuinedealz.com and for a small fee they would have installed the lugs professionally.

The point of the OP is to see that "even professionally crimped" terminals may not be as low impedance as Delta_JimS suggests...based on the infrared pics (that I clearly stated need more verification...but they do show Trojans point).

Who says Genuinedealz crimps are any better than the ones in Trojans photos? Just because they look nice covered in heat shrink doesn't mean everything...but to be fair I am sure they are fine and I too have used them but still doesn't mean they are as GOOD as crimped and soldered...just that they meet a "accepted standard".

I would love to see independent testing of crimpers, styles and standards much like the anchor testing...then we could discuss professioanal testing results instead of just opinions....

A proper electrical terminal connection is made mechanically And electrically.

In small wire sizes the big buck crimping tool is claimed to crush the wire into the terminal leaving no space .

Weather the force of a crimping tool can do this to start sized wires in up to debate.

If its done with a swedging style setup (as done with sailboat rigging) perhaps..

The usual lever crimp-er may not be near the requirement to cold flow .

Simplest is to order the wiring in advance , but a plumbers cast iron ladle filled with molten solder works fine for a dunk .

I actually purchased the 3/0 cable and Lugs from Genuinedealz, based on Al's recommendation some time ago.
Unfortunately, I cannot recommend them nor will I ever buy from them again.

I felt that the cable was inferior and the lugs were thin.(as compared to Ancor)
But, that is not the main reason I will never buy from them again. Within a few days of my purchase, my credit card was stolen and used in nearby SC.(I am in CA)
May be total coincidence, but this is the Only time I have ever had my card # compromised.

I also purchased a heavy-duty professional hyrdrolic crimper from TEMco for this project, as also recommended by this site. This is a critical system on my vessel and I wanted solid crimps.

Turned out the TEMco was way over-kill, but makes no-nonsense crimps.
As stated above, a crimp with this tool leaves very little (if any) room for solder unlike other crimpers I have used. I personally chose to top them off with solder anyway.

Delta_JimS said:

I actually purchased the 3/0 cable and Lugs from Genuinedealz, based on Al's recommendation some time ago.
Unfortunately, I cannot recommend them nor will I ever buy from them again.

I felt that the cable was inferior and the lugs were thin.(as compared to Ancor)
But, that is not the main reason I will never buy from them again. Within a few days of my purchase, my credit card was stolen and used in nearby SC.(I am in CA)
May be total coincidence, but this is the Only time I have ever had my card # compromised.

Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I have used GenuineDealz.com several times, and have been impressed with the fast service and the quality of the product. Never had my credit card compromised, either.

But it can happen, I guess, and I can certainly see why you would not be happy about the situation. You have my sympathy (for what it is worth).

I have used GD a lot very happily, though only for lighter weight cables and terminals. Found the quality at least equivalent to Ancor (in fact the heat shrink terminals looked like they were both sourced from the same OEM) I am curious as to how the 3/0 cable was found to be lacking.

If you are paranoid about it (or even if you are not for that matter), feel all your terminals and power cables on board when they are under a load on a regular basis. They should never feel warm to the touch. The boat you save may be your own!

This is, among other things, how I discovered some poorly soldered and installed connections by a PO. Oh, and some hammered and dimple crimped ones too!

Speaking of PO connections; pictured is some of what I inherited when I bought the boat, along with loose and corroded connections.

At the time, I thought I was getting a pretty good deal on the boat since I could do most of the deferred maintenance myself. Today, after 700 hrs of labor and 10s of boat bucks, I am not so sure....