New Generator Time

last run my Wester stopped putting out power bottom line I could install a new head on it (26 year old ) my thoughts are to put a whole new Unit in

The mechanic that I respect the most here suggests the Phasor the grand banks behind me on the dock has one and he is very happy with it

Also was going to go up in size any thoughts and or Input from anyone

Just curious. How did the phasor compare to the westerbeke and Northern lights as far as price?

As far as price seems a bit cheaper and the one I have heard was amazingly quite

As for size.....If you are a boater that doesn't mind using the generator I would get a replacement that matches your shore power. If your marine trader has two 30 amp shore power cables you should get a 7 or 8 KW. If it has one 50 amp 220 shore cable you should get about a 12 Kw. If you are into solar and wind and batteries and inverters and such generator size is all over the place.

Thomas Thanks for the input my shore power is 50aml 250v my boat is 50amp 125 and 30amp 125

How many kW is the old gennie? It would be worth doing a bit of a load study to figure out how many kW you need. And decide if you can put up with a little load management, allowing a smaller unit.

Also, Broward Armature in Ft Lauderdale can rewind that gen end.

A couple boats around here have installed Phasors, heard no complaints.

Early on in my computer systems career I once asked a well respected tech what PC he liked the best, without hesitation he said brand X, they are just great. Waited a minute then asked why? Then he said because it is real easy to open up the case and take the boards out. Nothing to do with reliability etc. Just a thought, a lot of good information on this site with generators etc. Also keep in mind resale and what brand you would like to see in an advertisement. This is not to say Phasor is not the best.

As Ski noted take a look at your loads and maybe as importantly how you use them and if you are willing to put up with a bit of load management.

If you want to run every A/C device on your boat simultaneously then you will probably need a very big genset. But if you are willing to switch off one load like the water heater while you use another short term load like the microwave, then you can get by with a much smaller genset.

A smaller genset loaded to a higher level is more efficient and probably will last longer.

David

Yeah do a load study. Many systems are getting more efficient so in the future your load might go down as you add say LED bulbs.

Phasor are good units. Unless you're on a tight budget I don't think I'd spend much money on rebuilding a 26 year old Genset.

It is hard to add generator when the admiral is not happy with the load management. I know I was unhappy when the breaker tripped and the satellite TV took forever to re-boot. Missed the end or a lot of shows this way. Buy enough generator. Don't listen to the apocrypha about small and heavily loaded being better than a generator that can handle all the load.

Thanks

I have a full load analysis done (and had my dad the electrical eng check my work)

I put it on a spread sheet right now on the generator I can run all the lights and 2 ac units nothing in the Kitchen

My existing is a 8kw so it produces about 16amps

obthomas said:

It is hard to add generator when the admiral is not happy with the load management. I know I was unhappy when the breaker tripped and the satellite TV took forever to re-boot. Missed the end or a lot of shows this way. Buy enough generator. Don't listen to the apocrypha about small and heavily loaded being better than a generator that can handle all the load.

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good advice!

Get a generator that will allow you to run your boat with minor or no load management.

Its funny. I often run my generator at the harbor because we are drawing too much for the 30 amp shore power.

K sanders yes was my thoughts I also thought about 2 generators I have the room

put a large in now and a smaller in later

Also plans down the road to change out my bimini for a hard top and put solar on it

Apochrypha!! Well at least I learned a new word.

Here is a rather technical report from Victron that was obviously done to promote hybrid applications. It does show how appallingly low genset efficiency is at low loads. See

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/VE_Marine_generator_test_RVA_07-jan-2008.pdf

And does low load harm a diesel? Well Ski who I respect has said that low load does no harm but no load does (or was it Kevin who said the latter). I prefer to think that more load is better up to a point.

But I do appreciate that if Mama wants it to run everything at once, then you have no choice but to buy a big one.

David

djmarchand said:

Apochrypha!! Well at least I learned a new word.

Here is a rather technical report from Victron that was obviously done to promote hybrid applications. It does show how appallingly low genset efficiency is at low loads. See

http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/VE_Marine_generator_test_RVA_07-jan-2008.pdf

And does low load harm a diesel? Well Ski who I respect has said that low load does no harm but no load does (or was it Kevin who said the latter). I prefer to think that more load is better up to a point.

But I do appreciate that if Mama wants it to run everything at once, then you have no choice but to buy a big one.

David

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David

Yes, no load is not good. If you are running your generator and it has no load on it, with a good example that was given of a single AC unit cycling on and off that is a bad situation.

Varying loads with some times light, some time medium, and some time heavy is just fine for a generator.

The arguments for a smaller generator generally revolve around cost. Cost of the generator, and to a smaller extent cost of fuel. Those are valid arguments as people have real budgets to deal with.

If you take away the cost factor there is little argument that buying a generator that will serve the peak loads expected will be a hassle free reliable solution in most cases. I am sure that there are extreme examples such as a large boat with huge peak needs for say air conditioners, but they never run the AC units, and with little other needs. In those extreme cases a large generator for the huge loads and a small generator for the smaller loads might be worth considering, but those types of cases are the exception, not the norm for most TF member size boats.

As far as the Vicron study...

We need to remember that any "study" conducted by a company is the result of circular reasoning. The company has a "solution" (their product), and conducts a "study" which they know full well ahead of time that the end result of the "study" will be to promote their "solution". Its a great advertising technique. Create a problem, and offer a solution. Put the correct key words into your web page and all the sudden folks that are worried about a potential issue google it, find your web site, which happens to solve their "problem".

Nothing more inconvenient than having turn things off

First thing in the morning when you are charging batteries and trying to heat coffee and your hot water heater is recovering from a night of no power and your toaster trips the main breaker on your generator which is in the engine room behind the tool box, at this point you realize I could have used a couple of more kilowatts of genny. Usually when we turn on our generators we have multiple tasks going on. My inverter charger charges at 125 amps during bulk charging, water heater kicks in at the same time, stove coffee maker and possibly resistance heaters are in use. At this point I don't want to think about power management. I just want to get the day going. Go with a generator that handles your realistic morning needs. Don't worry about running under loaded. I ran construction generators on job sites that never ran anywhere near capacity, they just sat there running until some one picked up a saw or turned on a drill, they never saw a constant load and worked for years and years.

ksanders said:

The arguments for a smaller generator generally revolve around cost. Cost of the generator, and to a smaller extent cost of fuel. Those are valid arguments as people have real budgets to deal with.

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I don't know about most of you but my generator is not one of my boating budget concerns.

O.B.

obthomas said:

It is hard to add generator when the admiral is not happy with the load management. I know I was unhappy when the breaker tripped and the satellite TV took forever to re-boot. Missed the end or a lot of shows this way.

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Put you SAT TV and TV boxes on a UPS and you won't have that problem.

obthomas said:

I don't know about most of you but my generator is not one of my boating budget concerns.

O.B.

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Then by all means buy more Genset than you need and burn a bit more fuel than necessary. It's your money, blow it any way that makes you happy.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Then by all means buy more Genset than you need and burn a bit more fuel than necessary. It's your money, blow it any way that makes you happy.

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Bill

You have read every word that I have said. I have said buy all the generator you need but ......Never once did I say buy more generator than you need. A UPS system? you are kidding right? More batteries, charger, switch place to put it.....Just what I need.

Well Ski who I respect has said that low load does no harm but no load does (or was it Kevin who said the latter)

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Or me, that might change your opinion now? ;o) :

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Generator Loading Requirements

Phasors seem to be pretty good, when I was looking around seriously (as it turned out momentarily) for a second generator, Phasor and Norpro had a lot of happy owners at the "value" end of the spectrum.

obthomas said:

Bill

You have read every word that I have said. I have said buy all the generator you need but ......Never once did I say buy more generator than you need. A UPS system? you are kidding right? More batteries, charger, switch place to put it.....Just what I need.

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Perhaps I did misread.

And no I'm not kidding. A simple battery back up is not even remotely complicated. It plugs into the outlet and you plug your SAT TV boxes and TV into it. No more system cut out when you switch power sources or lose power for a few minutes or more depending on the battery size of the unit and the draw of the stuff plugged into it. I install them all the time. They make the owners, guests and charterers very happy. You can pick them up in any office supply store or else where.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Put you SAT TV and TV boxes on a UPS and you won't have that problem.

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. . . . or put the TV and entertainment center on an inverter circuit. There's your battery backup. We do that on Moonstruck to have Sat TV and DVDs at anchor without running the generator.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Perhaps I did misread.

And no I'm not kidding. A simple battery back up is not even remotely complicated. It plugs into the outlet and you plug your SAT TV boxes and TV into it. No more system cut out when you switch power sources or lose power for a few minutes or more depending on the battery size of the unit and the draw of the stuff plugged into it. I install them all the time. They make the owners, guests and charterers very happy. You can pick them up in any office supply store or else where.

Click to expand...

A few years ago the mainline battery backups would not sense a charge if it was coming from a modified sine wave inverter. Don't know if this has changed in the last few years but if you have a msw inverter you might give that some thought.

Moonstruck said:

. . . . or put the TV and entertainment center on an inverter circuit. There's your battery backup. We do that on Moonstruck to have Sat TV and DVDs at anchor without running the generator.

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Yes there are a few ways to do it. There's no reason to have the system have to reboot just due to a momentary power drop.

But if you're busy rolling on the floor laughing you may not see that.

I have a little rack mount ups to feed the satcom gear and networking equipment.

What I found is that even though these loads were on inverter, when the inverter transitions between inverting and charging modes the loads experience a power hit.

The little ups solved that.

The lowest cost method of using a modest noisemaker is load shedding.

If its too much of a PIA to turn of the HW heater when the range is operated a $60 will do it automatically.

With a bit of thinking most boats can be powered with a noisemaker that can operate all the air cond units .