Why Boardings?

NYCHAB III said:

Hello All, I certainly appreciate all of you who took the time to share your experiences and comments regarding boardings.

As I got no definitive answer as to the "why", and perhaps, more likely, there is no simple answer, I do not exactly feel comforted. The idea of having someone's wife dragged over a seawall and forced to stand against a wall is, frankly, scary.

Probably going to rethink this whole ICW thing. Perhaps touring the East Coast by auto is the way after all.

Thank you all,

D.

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You do realize that things like this do happen to people in autos too, right? And, probably a lot more often.

NYCHAB III said:

...........As I got no definitive answer as to the "why", and perhaps, more likely, there is no simple answer, I do not exactly feel comforted..............

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They board boats because they can. Your only change of getting an answer of why has to come from the agency doing the boarding.

In the end, it doesn't matter why they do it, just know that they can. I wouldn't let this stop you from boating unless you are doing something illegal. It's an inconvenience but so are drawbridges, no wake zones, and the weather.

NYCHAB III said:

Hello All, I certainly appreciate all of you who took the time to share your experiences and comments regarding boardings.

As I got no definitive answer as to the "why", and perhaps, more likely, there is no simple answer, I do not exactly feel comforted. The idea of having someone's wife dragged over a seawall and forced to stand against a wall is, frankly, scary.

Probably going to rethink this whole ICW thing. Perhaps touring the East Coast by auto is the way after all.

Thank you all,

D.

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Be careful of illegal u-turns...those holding cells can be pretty scary too...

Especially with Bubbas on both sides of the bars....

Then again...you DID have your questions answered....

Here's AAA's number.... 1-800-222-4357 (1-800-AAA-HELP)

I have been boating all my life. Never been boarded.

NOT a reason to skip boating.

There are many risks in boating just as in driving.

Being boarded is one of the least to be concerned about (unless you are purposefully breaking the law).

Road trips aren't the answer either. We were held up for over two hours one time coming back from Canada at Niagara Falls. My wife and I confined to separate rooms, no reason given. When they finally turned us loose, the reason given was that we did not have a front license plate and one of the customs guys knew that in TX cars have two plates. If he had asked I could have shown him the second plate in the trunk. The car didn't have one mounted when we bought it so I never put it on either.

Like I and others said earlier, they do it because they can. It's the badge and gun thing.

Bob

Or they do it because its their job and if they didn't and the word got out they would be the victim of many TFer's rage for collecting food stamps...

Gimme a break guys...all the years I wore the USCG uniform and worked with thousands of Customs, DEA, state LEOs, Fish and Game, etc..etc..the total number of egomaniacs I could count on one hand. And they got ribbed and reprimanded every chance the rest of us could throw at them. None of us wanted a bad rep so why put up with their antics.

Local cops...yes...my personal experience with town cops is 180 degrees than those I mentioned.

You want to find the real danger in the US (right behind no-discharge zones of course )...look to political staffers....those guys are sticks of dynamite with lit fuses trying to further political their careers every chance they get. They aren't elected or even wanted...but they have the ears and pull of some pretty powerful people. Sure some really dedicated ones....heck...maybe even like LEOs...most are good but the bad ones sure make up for it.

O.K., properly chastised newbie here. The car thing was somewhat facetious on my part, as we absolutely desire to experience all that the ICW has to offer. I think my perception of the USCG may be slightly skewed as I think of them as skilled professionals who routinely sail into the worst the sea has to offer in order to rescue someone who is in serious trouble. That certainly seems to be their primary duty on the west coast.

I do know that is still their "forte", I just can't get my head around "random boardings". "Because they can" seems somewhat dismissive of these guys.

Keep the great info coming!

D.

The best answer is as others have said, it's part of their job. Here is an excerpt from the CG mission statement below and then go to their webpage you can read about the 11 specific missions that are mandated by law.

"For over two centuries the U.S. Coast Guard has safeguarded our Nation’s maritime interests in the heartland, in the ports, at sea, and around the globe. We protect the maritime economy and the environment, we defend our maritime borders, and we save those in peril. This history has forged our character and purpose as America’s Maritime Guardian."

USCG: About Us

It would be a mistake to lose out on a nice cruise for fear of being boarded. Most have years of boating without ever having a Coastie aboard.
Safe operations and a compliant vsl, whats the worry?

@ NYCHAB III I found this thread, and do have a semblance of an answer for you. I recently bought a boat. She is 'an oldy, but a goody' IMHO.

The previous owner had her pretty much alright to use. EXCEPT for three things:

All the flares were at least 6 years out of date.
The Life jackets were all disintegrating, and
Fire extinguishers were flat.

These are pretty innocuous items. Easily replace/repaired. But, they OFTEN get ignored. Think about it; Everyone THINKS they have just checked them last month (or the month before) Everyone SWEARS they have up to date charts. Everyone 'knows' they have good flares and smokes. But, when checked, these are often the little lifesaving items that are in need of replacement.

THAT is the need for boardings. To make up for the boating public's lack of competence to fully vet themselves on safety and compliance issues. The vessel registration is another hot topic that is often overlooked. If you keep an eye out on the water you often find vessels with last years stickers on, and the owners are oblivious to it. (of course once reminded, they all get 'rememberful' about sending it in last week, that it just hasn't been sent back yet)

They are at heart Burorats , and boarding create numbers , and paperwork that is used for job justification.

C Northcpte Parkinson , talking of burorats.

Work expands to fill the time available.

FF: There is some truth to the 'void' theory.

But (in my industry) the companies tried to convince the USCG that we could regulate and 'inspect' ourselves, and earn the equivalent to the power squadrons annual safety check sticker. The theory went like this: if your company could pass an annual inspection three years running (on all vessels) the office could be trusted to keep inspections up annually and give out the stickers (as if boarded and vetted by the USCG)

It soon morphed into offices slapping stickers on without meeting the inspection requirements. Sort of proved the point that 'we' are not capable of following regulations for whatever reason. Sure, some do. But most don't. Same for privately owned vessels. Most comply. Some don't. Thus the need for the 'Nanny State' inspections. How hard is it to lock an overboard discharge handle? How hard is it to check flare expiration dates? How hard it is to keep a clean bilge? How hard is it to check life jackets, whistles and water lights? But, in reality...... How often does the average boater check these simple items?

Every time you get stopped for a safety check thank the 4th amendment that the same does not happen at home, in your car or in your office.

bayview said:

Every time you get stopped for a safety check thank the 4th amendment that the same does not happen at home, in your car or in your office.

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In your car it actually does. Anytime you drive you are subject to being stopped and they check your license and registration. Along with anything they see amiss.

Actually, the concept if annual vehicle inspections sort of blows this argument out of the water. In states with auto inspection you have to make amends for deficiencies. In states where there is no inspection post accident you are held accountable for deficiencies that are deemed to have precipitated the accident.

cappy208 said:

In your car it actually does. Anytime you drive you are subject to being stopped and they check your license and registration. Along with anything they see amiss.

Actually, the concept if annual vehicle inspections sort of blows this argument out of the water. In states with auto inspection you have to make amends for deficiencies. In states where there is no inspection post accident you are held accountable for deficiencies that are deemed to have precipitated the accident.

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I believe commercial buildings are also subject to routine health and safety inspections...they are in NJ and I'll bet lot's of other states.

But (in my industry) the companies tried to convince the USCG that we could regulate and 'inspect' ourselves"

Kinda like the banks talked the government into easing regulations and standards back in the early 2000s and we all know how that turned out. LOL

psneeld said:

I believe commercial buildings are also subject to routine health and safety inspections...they are in NJ and I'll bet lot's of other states.

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As a former CG officer you probably are well aware that 14 USC 89 (the code that gives the CG the right to board your vsl with or without your consent) also has jurisdiction over waterfront facilities and buildings.

Sailor of Fortune said:

As a former CG officer you probably are well aware that 14 USC 89 (the code that gives the CG the right to board your vsl with or without your consent) also has jurisdiction over waterfront facilities and buildings.

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As a lifelong boater and full time liveaboard...I don't get peoples aversion to safety boarding's..the ones by the USCG are usually fun if you make them that,

Be adverse to them and you get what you sow...

I don't like being boarded much. Not cuz they don't have the right or need or anything else like that. I don't like making mistakes and I don't the feeling of being questioned, I don't like tickets either and I have ZERO problems with police! In fact, i LOVE The fact that i can wake up in the middle and of the night and call 911 (or hail the CG for Help for that matter).

It's a discomfort thing not a rebellious thing or dislike thing. I do like it when I pass inspection, but I don't like the process.

psneeld said:

As a lifelong boater and full time liveaboard...I don't get peoples aversion to safety boarding's..the ones by the USCG are usually fun if you make them that,

Be adverse to them and you get what you sow...

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I totally agree. I've boated all my life on lakes and game wardens stopped people all the time. Now at some point they all knew me and no longer stopped me. I just don't have a problem with being stopped or boarded by the USCG. Plus I'm smart enough to accept some things as a fact of life. Oh, and for the record, if I get stopped while driving a car, I say "yes, sir" a lot and treat them with great respect and have never had a problem.

Pineapple Girl said:

The USCG boarded them . . . and reminded them they needed at least two sober operators.

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Two? Really? Since when?

Pineapple Girl said:

My husband has been on a boarded vessel a few times. Two I recall the circumstances. 1) they were motoring a sailboat home from a race and it was around 2am. Basically the USCG asked what they were doing out there at that hour. USCG were quite nice and it went quickly, no issues. Perhaps, like on the highway, they are concerned about drunk driving at that hour. 2) they were motoring a sailboat home from a race and had stopped at a waterfront bar for a few drinks on the way. The USCG boarded them just off the bar and reminded them they needed at least two sober operators. USCG were quite nice and it went quickly, no issues. Perhaps, like on a highway, they are concerned about people driving drunk when leaving a bar.

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The difference between the highway and the waterway comes in the fact that an officer needs reasonable suspicion that a violation of the traffic or criminal code has occurred when driving a motor vehicle. There are a few ways that a safety check can be implemented in most states but the courts have ruled very specifically on these.

I think the issue with the USCG is that many people don't like being stopped for no reason. If random, individual stops not based upon a violation occurred on the roadways all hell would break out from the driving public.

gwkiwi; said:

I think the issue with the USCG is that many people don't like being stopped for no reason. If random, individual stops not based upon a violation occurred on the roadways all hell would break out from the driving public.

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The difference is: If a car has a safety violation it simply coasts to a stop. Or pulls over.

If a boat has an 'incident' it usually involves gravity and sinking. Big difference. The CG is using statistic based justification for its boarding record. I can't recall the numbers but there is a certain percentage (pretty high) of violations for yachts. Granted some of the violations are petty. But others are directly addressed by USCode: Flares, fire extinguishers, PFDs, and backfire flame arresters. (To name a few). Some warrant the equivalent to a warning. Others warrant termination of a voyage. Yet others warrant arrest ( oui) on the spot.

My pet peeve: Personally, I think that if a vessel is operated with the incorrect lights at night they should be forced to anchor for the night, and the operator should be forbidden from operating at night ever again. Period.

I think that if a vessel is operated with the incorrect lights at night they should be forced to anchor for the night, and the operator should be forbidden from operating at night ever again. Period.


This assumes the regulations are perfect for every vessel and in every situation.

When ocean sailing we use a white 360 bright light at the masthead.

The red & green lenses loose 88% to 92% of their energy just heating the lense.

In blue water mostly the big guys just need to SEE you to avoid you..

A white 360 could be a stern light, an anchored boat or a smaller , under 7 meter boat.

The big guys will avoid the white light easily , as we are 6K (at best) , and there 18-28K.

May not please the rules worshiping folks , but so far being 10 meters , not 7, has caused no close calls.

Not being run down is more important to me than a paper violation.

"The difference between the highway and the waterway comes in the fact that an officer needs reasonable suspicion that a violation of the traffic or criminal code has occurred when driving a motor vehicle."

Hmm, in our area, the police often set up road blocks and check safety and registration. No need for suspicion of a violation, everyone is stopped. Been stopped several times this way. All went well.

We were boarded last month and it all went well. I guess if I were getting boarded all the time it would be a problem but as long as it is once a year or so it is a good experience. The CG is always professional and kind.

This assumes the regulations are perfect for every vessel and in every situation.



When ocean sailing we use a white 360 bright light at the masthead.

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Again, the incorrect lights may 'make you feel better'. But they show a completely different set of conditions to others. ?Perfect? But people can't simply go 're interpret' the rules to their own beliefs. A COMPLETE reading of the rules would give you examples of the correct lights you should be showing, along with proper lookout responsibilities to remove the chance of collision.

Here's a couple of options specifically enabled by Colregs.

A red over green LED light in addition to the sidelights; with (although labeled 2 mile) they have far in excess of that

A white strobe light shown in time to prevent collision.

Or (in lieu of the other lights) a tri color LED on the masthead well clear of the seas?

Instead of you showing (depending on aspect) a power driven vessel, A vessel at anchor. Or (more likely) a sailing vessel under power as well as sail. Showing the correct lights does a whole lot more than let others know what you are doing. It shows your competence as well. By you CHOOSING to be improperly lit says more about your professionalism than you realize.

And comparing apples to oranges 10M versus <7m is further erroneous. As a less than 7 M can simply 'show a light in time to avoid collision'. Having a white anchor light on all the time is hardly the same as a 7M 'showing'.

cappy208 said:

[QOUTE] This assumes the regulations are perfect for every vessel and in every situation.



When ocean sailing we use a white 360 bright light at the masthead.

Again, the incorrect lights may 'make you feel better'. But they show a completely different set of conditions to others. ?Perfect? But people can't simply go 're interpret' the rules to their own beliefs. A COMPLETE reading of the rules would give you examples of the correct lights you should be showing, along with proper lookout responsibilities to remove the chance of collision.

Here's a couple of options specifically enabled by Colregs.

A red over green LED light in addition to the sidelights; with (although labeled 2 mile) they have far in excess of that

A white strobe light shown in time to prevent collision.

Or (in lieu of the other lights) a tri color LED on the masthead well clear of the seas?

Instead of you showing (depending on aspect) a power driven vessel, A vessel at anchor. Or (more likely) a sailing vessel under power as well as sail. Showing the correct lights does a whole lot more than let others know what you are doing. It shows your competence as well. By you CHOOSING to be improperly lit says more about your professionalism than you realize.

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You suggestion of a strobe got me thinking back...

For inland it is used as a distress signal and this is what I remember about strobes in general....

Rule 36 - Signals to Attract Attention

If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel, any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in these Rules, or may direct the beam of her searchlight in the direction of the danger, in such a way as not to embarrass any vessel. [Any light to attract the attention of another vessel shall be such that it cannot be mistaken for any aid to navigation. For the purpose of this Rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided].

Avoided, not altogether prohibited. The caveat: in time to avoid collision. But this of course means an adequate lookout is manned (and capable of determining risk)

And thinking further back, I highly doubt the sailing vessel doing 6 knots would be in inland waters with a ship doing 18 knots as described Again. Over simplification does not equal violation of the rules is justified.

There was nothing fun about my last boarding. They picked the worst spot. A narrow shoaling, twisting part of the water way . A bit further and there would have been plenty of room.

The boarding itself went fine because we keep all papers in one place.
The safety inspection by the auxiliary was of absolutly no interest to the boarding crew.