That's the point though. The one's he's describing are those who are getting out of hand. They are the ones loud, staggering around the docks, yelling, turning music up, and in general being disruptive to everyone else. He's not referring to those who are just drinking on their docked boat and keeping their drunkenness to themselves. It's as if at home. You keep it in the confines of your home or boat, no issue. You disturb the neighbors then there is a problem.
Drinking and Boating
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That's the point though. The one's he's describing are those who are getting out of hand. They are the ones loud, staggering around the docks, yelling, turning music up, and in general being disruptive to everyone else. He's not referring to those who are just drinking on their docked boat and keeping their drunkenness to themselves. It's as if at home. You keep it in the confines of your home or boat, no issue. You disturb the neighbors then there is a problem.
Latter 1960's I was a fighter in NY. Early 1970's I owned a very raucous bar and restaurant that catered to Penobscot Bay ME lobstermen/fishermen, Gloucester Mass fisher persons, and New England loggers. Seating 210. Bi level band stage, dance floor, huge game room, kitchen. Heavy Drinking Galore! Fist fights when appropriate - LOL.
I personally drank (partied) from age 12 to 43 yrs. When younger I've solo traveled this country at times for years in a row on my own pocket cash from business sales and at times with buddies who had cash too.
There IS one thing I am confident to state: Any amount of alcohol in a person's blood stream surely slows brain to muscle/nerve reaction time and as content increases that reaction time decreases - it's simple neurological fact. You could call it physical-physics!
Therefore, it is simply better for the safety of ALL to NOT DRINK AT ALL while operating ANY machinery.
Small caveat here: If a person is a raving alcoholic and shakes uncontrollably when "dry"... then best to have a small swig to steady your nerves while driving to nearest AA meeting! There you can learn "tools" for complete rest o' life abstention!
I personally drank (partied) from age 12 to 43 yrs. When younger I've solo traveled this country at times for years in a row on my own pocket cash from business sales and at times with buddies who had cash too.
There IS one thing I am confident to state: Any amount of alcohol in a person's blood stream surely slows brain to muscle/nerve reaction time and as content increases that reaction time decreases - it's simple neurological fact. You could call it physical-physics!
Therefore, it is simply better for the safety of ALL to NOT DRINK AT ALL while operating ANY machinery.
Small caveat here: If a person is a raving alcoholic and shakes uncontrollably when "dry"... then best to have a small swig to steady your nerves while driving to nearest AA meeting! There you can learn "tools" for complete rest o' life abstention!
Well put!
Precisely, marinas are shared space. And a shared finger pier is even more so. If drinkers decide to gather outside on a sun deck boat five feet away from our open sundeck and speak in quiet conversational tones, if they don't start raising their voices after the first drink, if raucous laughter doesn't emerge during their good time was had by all, if they don't scowl and turn up their volume when I decline to participate, if they don't get nasty when I ask them to please tone it down when it invariably gets loud...then no problem. But it never, ever happens like that. So shared space becomes their space and we get driven inside the boat. Groups of drinkers are invariably rude, whether on the beach or on the boat. Now if there aren't any other occupied boats in the vicinity, then it doesn't matter. That's not what I'm talking about.
ksanders
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No, that's not what he said, and that's not what I quoted. You are expanding his quote (that I responded to) into something more to make your point.
This is what he said...
"I believe I prefer individuals who drink while boating to the drinking/drunken owner jerks who populate the marinas and docks. As a live aboard, one gets a very interesting perspective and insight into the boating community at large....largely alcoholics it seems. As a matter of fact, as I started typing this a well known drunk who frequents the marina on his boat stopped directly in front of another boat that pulled in next to us. The boat has a pennant that says "Happy Hour"....one of the universal signals amongst the serious drinking crowd. What this means for us is that the drunk and his wife will invite himself aboard the transient and they will disturb our peace for the rest of the evening. Since it's a sundeck boat, they will likely gather there as opposed to setting up the more typical drunk camp on the dock. This same sub-culture is very evident in the looper community. Anyway, I have to wonder how long it takes to metabolize a snoot full as many of these folks take off bright and early after a night of imbibing. Doubt they get eight hours between bottle and throttle."
He did not indicate any of the things you mentioned.
You can infer all you want, and so can I, but we need to get the facts straight.
My interpenetration of his quote is that someone met a friend at the dock as they were tying up. He was worried that they might sit out on their sun deck relaxing, and by doing that they might disturb him.
The reality of dockside life (for the large boat docks at least) isnt that they/we are a bunch of kids turning up the stereo. (remember you might be young, but for the most part big boat owners take decades to be able to afford their boats) They're older people, meeting a few friends on their tied up boats for a cocktail. Generally we're talking about no more than 6 people.
We need to remember that a dock is a shared space. I have not seen (again on the large boat docks) anything more than some older people socializing. If that pisses off someone that chooses to make that shared space their home, well sorry. Its a shared space.
There is no more right on a dock to get upset by some people socializing than would be appropriate to be upset at someone like the charter captain parked next to me that cleans his the exterior of his boat at night, and has people standing next to my porthole where I'm sleeping at 4:00 am boarding for a days fishing.
Its a shared space. If we want absolute quiet, the harbor isn't the place to be.
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ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Skidgear, you are describing people sitting on their sundeck haveing a few drinks and laughing.
I'll be perfectly honest here...
If it was prior to say 10:00 at night (week day) and you asked people on our boat to "tone it down" because someone laughed too loud, I'd probably offer you a beer or ignore you to avoid a conflict.
Living on a shared space means that you have to deal with however others might choose to use that shared space. As long as the music isn't turned up, or its really late at night we have no rights to silence on a dock.
If I asked the charter captain parked right next to me to please not have a crew cleaning his boat (with music) at night, or to not allow his clients to talk and joke at 4 in the morning he would rightfully tell me to buzz off.
I'm sitting on my boat right now. I was up at 5:00 having a cup of coffee. The dock is a 24X7 place. At that hour people are walking up and down the dock. Fishermen are preparing to go out. Its not a silent place at any hour.
Thats part of what I love about harbors. The sights and the sounds of dockside life.
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The fact is the two boaters didn't know one another previously. But the Happy Hour "signal" pennant on the front of the arriving boat was enough to facilitate the link up among obviously habitual drunks. Party time....and we were driven below by the loudmouth (60 something year old) revelers. They could have taken it to the dock/park area in front of the boats, but chose not to. Totally predictable...and rude...and characteristic of a huge segment of the "mature" boater community who drink. Thank goodness the charter fishing boats tend to congregate at another marina.
Shared space infers compromise...not sorry, you lose. The drinking community conveniently overlooks that.
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About five years ago, when we pulled into marina we still dock at... in a reclusive covered berth area with 19 slips and one large end tie... there were five "party people" boats in slips. They were loud and obnoxious. Afternoon of our 2nd day there, while we tuned-up our new slip, the "leader" of that group and I had strong words (our slips were side by side). While being "lit up" he said something way too rude to my wife. A VERY unwise move with me as husband. Anyway, The next visit we again ran into un pleasantries due to that "group". There were some other dock mates there that were nice, respectful people and they basically cowered to the wishes/ways of the "party people". Sooo... not being one to at all be trampled... I went to the main office of our marina and brought the female Harbor Master (who wife and I had already established good relations with) to our secluded, gated dock area while a dockside "party” was fully underway and many there were too drunk. Harbor Master immediately understood what I’d described at her office and stated a few strict rules to the party people. Well – you can imagine the resulting scowls, innuendos, and evaporating under-breath threats I received. Later that day I cornered the Party Leader for a succinct “private” discussion. In less than three months the party peoples’ boats had all moved to another marina. Instantly the palpable darkness of drunks-on-docks was lifted and a new feeling of lightness ensued. There was one more A-Hole that kept his boat there and owned a sizeable marine repair shop on the marina’s grounds. Turns out he was financially ripping boaters off while padding bills and providing poor service results. Some boaters I’d known for years before we moved to that marina came to me and asked what they should do. I said… give me time to “handle it”. Also, I soon found out, the Harbor Master disliked this person intensely and completely distrusted him, wishing he and his business would leave. A circumstance occurred wherein he and I were brought into direct “communications”. Toe to toe, nose to nose we had loud words in front of others in his main shop garage. Luckily for him he never touched me (not that I wasn’t wishing he would so I could legally handle business). Within a few more months he’d sold his boat and closed his shop. Since then our dock has been and remains a sheer joy to berth at. The A-Hole sold his boat to a wonderful couple that kept the same slip. New, honest, and really good mechanics took over the marine repair shop – I use them whenever necessary. And, no loud parties any longer occur. That said; during the years since “clean-up” there have been two boats with “undesirables” take a berth. One lasted about six months and the other less than two before moving-on! The several really good dock mates there, and we, and the same Harbor Master keep a pretty tight handle on the caliber of new boat people who berth near us. All is good! One often frequenting dock mate who has had same slip for near a decade is known as “The Mayor”… I’m “The Bouncer”!
Moral of the story – It’s OK to drink and party if you like at reasonable and respectful decidable levels with consideration for all others. It’s NOT OK to operate equipment while doing so. And, if being a drinking partier who simply thinks your “boots are too big”… be very careful what sober dock mate you may come into contact/conflict with.
Happy Boat-Party Daze! - Art
Moral of the story – It’s OK to drink and party if you like at reasonable and respectful decidable levels with consideration for all others. It’s NOT OK to operate equipment while doing so. And, if being a drinking partier who simply thinks your “boots are too big”… be very careful what sober dock mate you may come into contact/conflict with.
Happy Boat-Party Daze! - Art
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ksanders
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Skidgear
I am sorry you feel that way. Your observations have obviously jaded your outlook. I understand that, and hope for your continued happiness at the harbor.
psneeld
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There are condo marinas and general purpose marinas...peace and quiet at a working marina where random noise, charter boats, any boats, or work crews can make noise at any time unless in the marina rules...you get what you get.
Courtesy is nice and it goes both ways...people are allowed to be people.
Peace and quiet...find a desolate anchorage or a mountain cabin.
I would like to always have my way too...buy at least I'm realistic in my view of the world....and share and play nice without always going toe to toe with someone...because I know there's ALWAYs someone out there that would kick my a** and never look like they could.
Someone mentioned alcohol doesn't control their life because they abstain...sounds like the ultimate control to me....and seems to come from the the chest out crowd and the "don't tread on me crowd"...etc...etc...yet the guy who has a beer or two in complete peace and harmony is a huge problem....
Courtesy is nice and it goes both ways...people are allowed to be people.
Peace and quiet...find a desolate anchorage or a mountain cabin.
I would like to always have my way too...buy at least I'm realistic in my view of the world....and share and play nice without always going toe to toe with someone...because I know there's ALWAYs someone out there that would kick my a** and never look like they could.
Someone mentioned alcohol doesn't control their life because they abstain...sounds like the ultimate control to me....and seems to come from the the chest out crowd and the "don't tread on me crowd"...etc...etc...yet the guy who has a beer or two in complete peace and harmony is a huge problem....
markpierce
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At my marina/dock, one hardly hears more than the "crickets."
Standard procedure for loud partiers is to offer someone who asked them to tone it down a drink. SOP among drunks. If declined, the party rages on, but even louder as they "are going to prove who's boss". Unless I want to get into it, I go below and close all the doors. Standard drunk behavior. By the way, I have an occasional drink and conversations take place on the sundeck of our boat. But if we have adjacent neighbors, I ask my guests to keep it down if they get loud. House rules that pisses a lot of them off including my heavy drinking brother who took it as an insult and hasn't spoken to me since. So be it....you're not welcome on my boat if you can't respect others around you.
psneeld, This isn't about folks who have a quiet drink and a quiet conversation....it's about surely alcoholics who don't like having their habit infringed upon.
Mark, if you got crickets, you got problems.
Spent a lot of time at Treasure Island marina in PC Florida. It got quiet after the treasure ship quit calling waiting diners over the PA that their table was ready, usually about 10 or 11 on weekends. Then it was as quiet as could reasonably be expected. One morning about 4 am one of teh charter boats had forgot to top up the night before, couldn't find the attendant and laid on their horn, waking the attendant I'm sure, but all those staying on their boats as well. Some things just make people cuss. Never had problems with drinkers, and as far as I remember no one had problems with me.
Spent a lot of time at Treasure Island marina in PC Florida. It got quiet after the treasure ship quit calling waiting diners over the PA that their table was ready, usually about 10 or 11 on weekends. Then it was as quiet as could reasonably be expected. One morning about 4 am one of teh charter boats had forgot to top up the night before, couldn't find the attendant and laid on their horn, waking the attendant I'm sure, but all those staying on their boats as well. Some things just make people cuss. Never had problems with drinkers, and as far as I remember no one had problems with me.
psneeld
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Wow...I didn't know there was a difference based on so many posts.
janice142
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Hello Steve.
Think small lobster, without the claws. Tasty, though the texture is more solid than a lobster. A local here has taught me about them (yummy!) and I look forward to being invited again. Soon, I hope.
Northern Spy
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Well I learned something from this thread. I've never heard of a bulldozer either.
Just to add to the topic....
"A Bay Shore man was struck and killed by a boat propeller Sunday evening in Baldwin Bay and the boat’s operator faces a vehicular manslaughter charge after authorities determined he was drunk at the time of the accident, police said.
According to police, Raymond Balboa, of Baldwin, was operating a 50-foot Sea Ray with about 10-14 people on board when he stopped the boat in the bay so the passengers could go swimming. After a short time, Balboa, 53, requested that everyone get back on the boat, police said.
Balboa started the boat’s engines and began to navigate the vessel while one passenger, Cesar Hernandez-Rodas, 34, remained in the water, police said. Hernandez-Rodas was struck by the boat’s propeller and suffered multiple lacerations to his lower extremities, police said.
Hernandez-Rodas was brought on board the boat, which moved to a nearby home. Hernandez-Rodas was then transported by a Nassau County ambulance to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
During an investigation, Balboa showed signs of intoxication and he was placed under arrest without incident, police said.
Balboa is charged with second degree vehicular manslaughter, operating a vessel while intoxicated and operating an unregistered vessel. He will be arraigned on Monday at First District Court in Hempstead.
"A Bay Shore man was struck and killed by a boat propeller Sunday evening in Baldwin Bay and the boat’s operator faces a vehicular manslaughter charge after authorities determined he was drunk at the time of the accident, police said.
According to police, Raymond Balboa, of Baldwin, was operating a 50-foot Sea Ray with about 10-14 people on board when he stopped the boat in the bay so the passengers could go swimming. After a short time, Balboa, 53, requested that everyone get back on the boat, police said.
Balboa started the boat’s engines and began to navigate the vessel while one passenger, Cesar Hernandez-Rodas, 34, remained in the water, police said. Hernandez-Rodas was struck by the boat’s propeller and suffered multiple lacerations to his lower extremities, police said.
Hernandez-Rodas was brought on board the boat, which moved to a nearby home. Hernandez-Rodas was then transported by a Nassau County ambulance to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
During an investigation, Balboa showed signs of intoxication and he was placed under arrest without incident, police said.
Balboa is charged with second degree vehicular manslaughter, operating a vessel while intoxicated and operating an unregistered vessel. He will be arraigned on Monday at First District Court in Hempstead.
The thread was started about drinking and operating a boat. I'm pleased to see that the majority of the posters understand the dangers of drinking and boating. I suppose trawler owners are mostly more mature than owners of center consoles or bowriders. Or perhaps alcohol has thinned the ranks.
A few posters were pretty defensive and I suspect they are those who do drink while operating a boat. I hope these folks will think seriously about this and learn to wait until they are safely ashore or anchored for the night. Not only is boating under the influence (any influence) a danger to yourselves, it's putting your friends, loved ones and innocent bystanders at risk.
I posted that I was a performing musician and truth be told, alcohol probably paid for the boat I own. Alcohol in moderation is fine in my opinion but only when there is no need to operate machinery or make important decisions. Drink at home or out with a designated driver. And know when you've had enough so you don't make a fool of yourself.
A few posters were pretty defensive and I suspect they are those who do drink while operating a boat. I hope these folks will think seriously about this and learn to wait until they are safely ashore or anchored for the night. Not only is boating under the influence (any influence) a danger to yourselves, it's putting your friends, loved ones and innocent bystanders at risk.
I posted that I was a performing musician and truth be told, alcohol probably paid for the boat I own. Alcohol in moderation is fine in my opinion but only when there is no need to operate machinery or make important decisions. Drink at home or out with a designated driver. And know when you've had enough so you don't make a fool of yourself.
Moonstruck
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Skidgear,
I have found that marinas on the inland rivers and lakes have more party stuff going on than on the east coast. Well, that is except Ego Alley in Annapolis. For the most part it has been pretty quiet in the marinas we frequent. Of course we only cruise down to Miami/FL occasionally, but still have found the marinas relatively quite. There are some noisy boats going up and down the ICW.
I have found that marinas on the inland rivers and lakes have more party stuff going on than on the east coast. Well, that is except Ego Alley in Annapolis. For the most part it has been pretty quiet in the marinas we frequent. Of course we only cruise down to Miami/FL occasionally, but still have found the marinas relatively quite. There are some noisy boats going up and down the ICW.
kthoennes
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You know a while back in this thread I posted that I just physically couldn't drink and boat because I can't afford to lose .00001% of my concentration and dexterity and reaction time at the helm. All the debates about the social and legal angles aside - and just to be clear, I love a good, fresh, ice cold martini myself once in a while - I'm surprised so many posters think they can still confidently and skillfully guide tons of boat through wind and water with any alcohol molecules bouncing around in their brains. Moving a boat must be much easier and more casual and less demanding for lots of people than it is for me.
psneeld
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Professionals fly, drive, captain all sorts of things in less than perfect state of health and mind.
Professionals know when it's beyond even reasonable limits to continue to do so.
To think an airline pilot, train engineer, truck driver, cruise ship captain never continues with a cold, headache, extreme fatigue, etc..etc...is living in a fantasy land.
But you don't have to be a professional to be proficient with your own boat.
If I truly thought 2 beers over an hour or two with a meal was going to impact my ability to drive a 6.3 knot boat in reasonable conditions...then I should sell her now as I plan on driving her into my years where I know my faculties will be less than what I have now even with two beers in me on a meal.
I guess selling her is the "responsible" thing to do.... NOT!!!!!!
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kthoennes
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The more I think of this - we're normally power boaters, but last month we chartered a sailboat to Catalina from Long Beach with friends. Buddy at the helm, you have to hang off the bow as far as you can, grab a sharp pointy stick on a peanut bouy tied to the mooring ball, haul up the first line, cleat it off, then walk (run) along the rail (without toppling over the railing cables) to hand-over-hand the aft mooring line (without cutting your hands on the barnacles) and cleat it off aft, all in about 15 seconds before your 42 foot sailboat whacks somebody's million dollar yacht moored right beside you. I'd be happy to try that just before a good martini, but certainly not after one.
markpierce
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We're on the same "wavelength."
psneeld
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If I see a dark horizon with a coupe waterspouts touching down...yeah...maybe I will not crack that second beer with the sandwich...or if I have a particularly demanding anchoring or mooring..maybe not even the first one...
I just thank my lucky stars to know my limits and to have the ability to function operationally under a lot of different stressors and distractions.
And maybe...just maybe...that's what I was getting at in the training thread....training can make you different...you just have to seek out where you want to get.
I just thank my lucky stars to know my limits and to have the ability to function operationally under a lot of different stressors and distractions.
And maybe...just maybe...that's what I was getting at in the training thread....training can make you different...you just have to seek out where you want to get.
psneeld
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Based on the PMs I'm getting...don't feel alone with reasonableness in living your life...
psneeld
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Sounds like many here are uncomfortable that alcohol is allowed out on the water at all for anyone.
Based on my guess...if in the over 50 crowd, we have probably flown in an airplane that was flown by one or both pilots under the influence at some point in our lives...doesn't make it right but based on fatal airline accident reports...it seemed to me alcohol was a lot less of a risk than many other factors out there.
None of what I have been posting justifies drinking and boating ...but most of what's been posted against it doesn't justify the "backlash" society has against it either and the thoughts of controlling it (especially in the same breath many here use in "losing freedoms".
Drunk and drinking as pointed out already go hand in hand...but are NOT synonymous....
I know one towboat business is zero tolerance for their captains.... even though federal law doesn't quite put it that way...I would guess all the companies are so don't worry.
Based on my guess...if in the over 50 crowd, we have probably flown in an airplane that was flown by one or both pilots under the influence at some point in our lives...doesn't make it right but based on fatal airline accident reports...it seemed to me alcohol was a lot less of a risk than many other factors out there.
None of what I have been posting justifies drinking and boating ...but most of what's been posted against it doesn't justify the "backlash" society has against it either and the thoughts of controlling it (especially in the same breath many here use in "losing freedoms".
Drunk and drinking as pointed out already go hand in hand...but are NOT synonymous....
I know one towboat business is zero tolerance for their captains.... even though federal law doesn't quite put it that way...I would guess all the companies are so don't worry.
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Hello Steve.
Think small lobster, without the claws. Tasty, though the texture is more solid than a lobster. A local here has taught me about them (yummy!) and I look forward to being invited again. Soon, I hope.
They're called Shovel Lobster. So now you can ask for them by name.
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