Best quality/workmanship build trawler

Hello
I am new to the "motor boat" world, moving from sailing to motoring (age and related physical fitness being the reasons)
I am used to high quality build, like the Nauticat or Halberg-Rassy in Europe.
I want to buy a trawler in the 40 footer range (two people aboard most of the time), and wish to know about the best quality build trawler. . .
I have been told about Nordic tugs, Kadey Krogen, Nordhaven,...
Any one wanting to share his view and reasons with me?
thanls
Le Malouin

Welcome to the forum Le Malouin. Can't help with your question as I have never owned a high end trawler. One that I perceive as being high end is Selene on top of the ones you have mentioned. I think it also depends on how you will use it and do you really need high end. With unlimited funds I might buy one to but the lottery hasn't been nice to me. Enjoy the forum.

Nordhavn is built to be able to do long distance blue water passages. That means it has equipment and systems that are way beyond what is required for normal coastal cruising and are wasted if that is all you want to do.

The others mentioned above are of a similar quality level as the Halberg Rassy. And some like the Kady Krogen can be suitable for blue water cruising with some modifications.

But I would never want to use a non-ballasted trawler (which includes the Nordic Tug) on a long distance, blue water passage. But for a coastal or near coastal cruiser, the Nordic Tug is a great boat.

It all depends on what you want to do with the boat.

David

Take a look at the Kadey Krogen Manatee. This 36' single engine has an amazing layout for 2 people. We have two recliner chairs in our saloon, a walk around queen bed, a 14' kayak, two bikes, scuba gear and a 11.5 foot hard bottom inflatable on board. We're in the Fort Lauderdale area in case you want to take a look. Not for sale.......by the way.

Dotty

Are you looking to buy new or used? For what kind of cruising in what waters?

A proper diesel duck, Dutch steel boats, Krogens and there are many more...budget is also a consideration. The world is the limit if money is not a factor.

Need to sleep on my two ears

Thanks you for the comments.
In fact by best quality built, I mean a boat easy to maintain, that is for exemple with an "electrical wiring" easy to undertand from A to Z, and easy to repair, with wooden work that will not crack and/or bend with humidity, with locks that will still lock properly in 20 years, with a hull that will not be subject to osmosis, with internal natural ventilation that will minimize humidity,... I know perfection does not exist, I am simply looking for excellence...
Then, my budget will likely decide for me to go on a used boat, but, KK?, Grand Banks? Other?
The next issue will be not the "spec requirements", that is single engine? or two engines?
A sail boat has two propulsion, wind and diesel.
A KK has only ONE engine, a GB has TWO engines...
Is a single engine really reliable and dependable?
Why is there on US build boats diesel cleaning systems? and not in Europe?
LeMalouin

I went to Yachtworld and to answer your question it confirmed my thoughts, at least in my mind......Dutch Steel looks like the best game in town in ur area of the world. Fuel prices as they are, full displacement, single engine, thruster equipped is they way to go. Very seaworthy, economical to run, all with high build quality as a general rule. Lowland, Linssen, Van De Sazant (or some such) seem to have high builds quality.
As for ur filter question?? I do not know but I prefer twin filters one running, one in wait. Contamination often comes from the boat tank, not necessary the supplier. That factor is the same on both sides of the pond. Fuel contamination is arguably the number 1 reason for Diesel engine shutdown.

Linssen Yachts.

Don't overlook Grand Banks. I think they are above most others in fit, finish, build quality, and equipment selection. As others have mentioned the most important questions is what you want to do with the boat, but for coastal cruising, I'd take Grand Banks over any of the other brands mentioned.

You might want to consider Selene. They have a pretty good European presence but the 40 is their smallest. Selene in Europe on Yachtworld

Dave

twistedtree said:

Don't overlook Grand Banks. I think they are above most others in fit, finish, build quality, and equipment selection. As others have mentioned the most important questions is what you want to do with the boat, but for coastal cruising, I'd take Grand Banks over any of the other brands mentioned.

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Grand Banks is definitely an option, GB seems to be quite homogenous in the way they are made, but I must admit I do find their "wood work" surely nice, but below expectation.
I am a fan of old boats smelling wood, the way the british used to make them some 75 years ago.

I am definitely considering a "Europa" version as a possibility, but do find that they are often overpowered for my way of cruising.

Mule said:

I went to Yachtworld and to answer your question it confirmed my thoughts, at least in my mind......Dutch Steel looks like the best game in town in ur area of the world. Fuel prices as they are, full displacement, single engine, thruster equipped is they way to go. Very seaworthy, economical to run, all with high build quality as a general rule. Lowland, Linssen, Van De Sazant (or some such) seem to have high builds quality.
As for ur filter question?? I do not know but I prefer twin filters one running, one in wait. Contamination often comes from the boat tank, not necessary the supplier. That factor is the same on both sides of the pond. Fuel contamination is arguably the number 1 reason for Diesel engine shutdown.

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Hi
Thanks for the tips
These are manufacturers I never heard of.
I'LL look even though I am not fan of steel boats, I do like the warmth of nice wood workmanship

Grand Banks is probably not what you want if you are interested in minimal maintenance. We have owned a GB for 16 years now, and while it is a great boat, well built, and ideally suited for the kind of coastal and inside waters cruising that we do in the Pacific Northwest, it is in no way, shape, or form "low maintenance."

Even the newer ones, with a minimum of external teak, require more work to keep them in good shape that other makes of a similar vintage and style.

An older one, like ours with its rainforest of external teak trim, teak deck, and wood interior (all GBs have wood interiors) is an ongoing project the moment you take possession.

They are great boats, but only if you have the time, interest, tools and skills, or the money to hire people with the time, interest, tools and skills, to maintain them properly.

Grand Banks can be had with one or two engines, although most of the models from 42 feet up are twin engine. We have a twin, and after owning a twin for 16 years I can say we will never own a boat with less than two engines. There's nothing "wrong" with single engine boats. We just have our reasons for prefering multiple engines under the floor.

If you want more information about GBs, I suggest you join the Grand Banks owners forum. http://www.grandbanksowners.com/index.php You can get answers to virtually any question you might have about these boats from people who have a ton of experience operating, maintaining, and repairing them.

Fuel contamination does not seem to be an issue in this area. The fuel from the suppliers along the coast seems to be very good. I have never personally heard of anyone having an engine problem due to bad fuel in this area. All the engine shutdowns I am aware of, including our own, have had mostly to do with cooling problems, either the raw water side or the coolant side.

It's certainly possible if a boat has dirty fuel tanks the filters could clog and starve the engine of fuel, particularly if rough water stirs up sludge from the bottom of a tank. But nobody I know personally with a boat, power or sail, has any sort of fuel polishing system on it. And none of them have ever had a fuel-related engine shutdown (I don't count running out of fuel).

I too am looking for a trawler/aft cabin style boat. 45-50ft. What is the opinions on the mid 80's Californians and Defever's Also, never thought of a Bayliner but the 4788 seemed to have a slight following. A little bigger than a 40 but I'm sure these makes have versions in the 40 range.
Thank you

Hatteras.

caltexflanc said:

Hatteras.

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I'll second that. Well built boats but don't buy a turd, regardless of brand.

Ocean Alexander builds a solid boat with quality components. Monk designed hulls for the most part.

We just bought a Hatteras 58 yacht fish and are very happy with it. It's a 1971 model and love the old mahogany that they used. Very solid boat and easy to maintain (so far). Quite a bit of an upgrade from our Gulfstar 43 Mark 1 trawler, which we'll be putting up for sale soon.

Welcome aboard.

CMA1992 said:

Also, never thought of a Bayliner but the 4788 seemed to have a slight following.

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This might be the understatement of all time, sorta like saying "Southerners like Ice tea and BBQ"...you think? Those boats have a HUGE following. Of all the boats ever built in that size range, they're the only ones that always have active buyers searching, and buying. They sell quicker than any other boat and hold the highest resale values vs original and pre-owned purchase prices. Sorta like the 57 Chevys of the sea. Good ones-PRICED RIGHT literally sell within days of coming on the market. Sight unseen.

If you're looking at used boats forget the builder, look at how it was maintained. The worst Taiwan trawler that has been well taken care of and issues fixed will be better than the best Nordhaven made that has been abused and neglected. If you find one with wiring that is easily understood please post what it is, I want one.

Apophyge said:

If you're looking at used boats forget the builder, look at how it was maintained. The worst Taiwan trawler that has been well taken care of and issues fixed will be better than the best Nordhaven made that has been abused and neglected. If you find one with wiring that is easily understood please post what it is, I want one.

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That's because both were built in Taiwan. :lol:

Apophyge said:

If you find one with wiring that is easily understood please post what it is, I want one.

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Virtually any Ocean Alexander.

Until you determine what the mission of your next boat will be, this thread will continue to wander all over the place. A Krogen Manatee fits one mission- coastal cruiser, displacement speed, high interior volume; a newer high hp Grand Banks fits another- getting there quick while looking yachty; and a Nordhavn fits a third mission- long distance blue water passagemaking (as well as snob appeal).

David

So, what is the opinion on the Bayliner 4788 anyway? We looked a a Defever 48 today and are going to look at a 48 Californian tomorrow. There is a 4788 in the marina where the other boats are and it looks great, but, on a weight basis, the 1979 Defever came in at about 40,000 lbs, were as the Bayliner came in at roughly 30,000 lbs. Where is the difference? We asked the broker that and h said that the older Defever's were a heavier built blue water boat and the 4788 are a lighter more ICW boat. I did notice that the Engine room on the Defever was just that, an Engine Room, but on the 4788, it seems to be a bunch of floor boards pulled up and not an Engine Room at all? I have not seen this in person yet but I plan to? Is this a good assumption? Thanks as always

Depends much on where you intend to boat. Gunkholing or transoceanic, and such.

Well Mr. Pierce My intention for the boat is to use it around the SF Bay and to go to the Farallon islands and to Bodega and Monterey bay. I really like the "heavy" Defever's but I am afraid the better half (wife) will like the Californian and 4788 better. So, as an ex Marine Engineer, I'm not sure the 4788 "engine room" will do me any good. Don't know yet, but I know I want to run the engine room on my own. My wife loves the 4788 interior though

CMA1992 said:

So, what is the opinion on the Bayliner 4788 anyway? We looked a a Defever 48 today and are going to look at a 48 Californian tomorrow. There is a 4788 in the marina where the other boats are and it looks great, but, on a weight basis, the 1979 Defever came in at about 40,000 lbs, were as the Bayliner came in at roughly 30,000 lbs. Where is the difference? We asked the broker that and h said that the older Defever's were a heavier built blue water boat and the 4788 are a lighter more ICW boat. I did notice that the Engine room on the Defever was just that, an Engine Room, but on the 4788, it seems to be a bunch of floor boards pulled up and not an Engine Room at all? I have not seen this in person yet but I plan to? Is this a good assumption? Thanks as always

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Apples and Oranges. The 4788 isn't a trawler, but is a true pilothouse that can poke along at trawler speeds for long distances, but has the ability to get up and run up to 20 -25 mph (depends on engines) if desired. The DeFever can go at trawler speeds only. The others have lots of windage due to being so tall and boxy, the 4788 is low (due to not having a tall engine room) and sleek, which is why so few have bow thrusters. Oh, almost forgot- you don't have to go outside to reach the flybridge- it's just 3 steps up from the Pilothouse. If it starts raining-you just go down into the climate controlled pilothouse-which many run their boats from all the time (including docking) as the bow doesn't rise when running- giving excellent visibility. So you don't need canvas up on the FB. There's a cockpit for fishing or lounging. Great views from the large opening windows in the salon. Windows that don't leak because the window frames aren't holding the weight of the flybridge.

The 4788 has much aluminum in their construction (superstructure, window frames, doors, etc) The 4788 is quite high tech (fully cored) in it's construction and was built in America, the 48' is just lots of fiberglass and wood built in Taiwan. One will have blisters, the other doesn't.


My Dodge Ramcharger(s) had a huge engine bay, but my Dodge Caravan doesn't.
Guess which one has needed the hood up the most since new? You pick a car for the convenience of the mechanic who works on it?

The 4788 will remind you when you're getting fat, but you can easily check fluids without torturing yourself especially if they have had a center hatch installed-as many have. When they became named Meridian- the hatches between the engines in the salon were standard after a couple of years. It's an easy retrofit for the older ones.

The 4788s exterior is pretty much maintenance free after 1996. Taiwan boats - "not so much". The 96 newer 4788s have Cummins engines which are pretty good engines, with no part problems, and service available pretty much anywhere by just looking in the phone book.
The 4788 has a bathtub, and the guests have a separate shower stall.
If you go to my site and click "Bayliner and Meridian History and Updates" I have photos of the hull lamination schedules and photos of one that sat on a reef in the Berry's for a week and is still in service. It's a thick built boat. Thicker than a Nordhavn 46'! (again, I have the photos to prove it).
Which one is a better passagemaker? Better question is "which one's have made the most passages? When you cruise Alaska and Mexico- you tell me which one's you see more of out your window. That's your answer. ONE you can readily sell, the other -good luck. One has a lot of bang for the buck, the other you will need a lot of bucks to get the bang. What's this stuff called varnish? One's a Swiss Army knife, the other is a Chinese take out box. Lol. Just joking-the Californians were built in California. What good is "heavy" if it's all in the wrong places? I wouldn't recommend ANY for going out to the Farallons! A Defender is the best out there for rough water. Tied up next to your Pilothouse at anchor or the dock.

Well, the Seahorse Coot could do that, but it is probably too small for you with a mere under-pilothouse engine compartment.

Mr.Pierce, I love your boat and meant no disrespect towards you engine room or any other. As you know, I went to CMA and was comparing engine rooms to ones like the "Cub" we had at school and thought I was looking for a boat with that style stand up engine compartment. The more I look though, the more I am finding out that on a "pleasure" boat, the engine room is not all that big and for good reason. I guess those style engine rooms are mostly on "working" boats. Your engine compartment looks cleaner than my kitchen at home
Pilothouse King, thanks for the great write up. That is exactly what I was looking for in terms of information regarding the different types of boats available. I will be checking out your site as soon as I get done with this post. Regarding the Defender, did you mean Defever or is there a Defender boat out there I don't know about? All this pleasure boating is new to me, I know "working" boats but not much about the other, sorry if some questions may seem "dumb"