Drinking and Boating

In California drunk boating is the same as drunk driving. Same standard, same hit on your DRIVING record and the same fine. Both your car insurance and boat insurance take the hit. You get to pay the huge fine and could lose your driving license. It doesn't matter if someone drunker hits you, fail the test and you're still a drunk driver. If someone sober hits you, you are still the drunk driver. Way too much risk.

Never underway. Maybe one on a mooring or at anchor. 2 or 3 if docked for the night.

Open container laws concerning cars are very strict in FL. Don't know about boats.

Did anyone answer the question from a previous poster about your response to being asked by LEO's to move you're boat after being anchored if you've been drinking?

I like to have a brew or two underway, but limit it to NA beer (most of the time).

I usually have one or two six packs of micro brew before heading out, while underway am sure to have the bottle of Jack at the helm station. When I feel like passing out I just set the autopilot, my dog can wake me up if he hears any alarms.

The last time I had a checkup, the doc said I have too much blood in my alcohol system.

timjet said:

Did anyone answer the question from a previous poster about your response to being asked by LEO's to move you're boat after being anchored if you've been drinking?

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I suspect that if they ordered (or strongly requested) that you move your boat, and I'm assuming it's for safety reasons, not a violation of the regs and such, then there is some exemption implied by the officer, unless of course, if you crash into their boat. Then all bets are off.

I suspect that people that were dockside when Georgetown went up in flames (last fall was it?) moved their boats, drinking effects aside. And I doubt anyone wrote them up for taking precautions for the safety of their boat and passengers. Same for the number of marina fires of late. Moving your boat for safety reasons and joy riding are two different animals.

Let's see if I can post a video.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...PKgbJxwv5LdEgBn0clqc_zg&bvm=bv.72676100,d.aWw

Guess not, anyway, it's Albert Collins performing "I Ain't Drunk, I'm Just Drinking." - Enjoy responsibly.

Wow....getting like thruster threads....

If you have an alcoholic beverage you'll lose control of everything and crash and burn, death and mayhem.

Just like if that thruster goes out or you try to dock without one...you'll lose control of everything and crash and burn, death and mayhem.

As to moving a boat when you refuse to because of alcohol consumption....no problem they will call the assistance tower of your choice and you pony up. maybe you can fight it in court...the tow bill will pale in comparison to the legal bill.

timjet said:

............... Did anyone answer the question from a previous poster about your response to being asked by LEO's to move you're boat after being anchored if you've been drinking?.........

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Any answer would be only an opinion, but my opinion is to be honest and tell the LEO that you can't move the boat because you've been drinking. Let him arrange to have it towed or whatever.

If you drive the boat drunk, it doesn't matter if the LEO told you to drive it or not, you're still guilty of BUI.

The best plan is to not put yourself in that position in the first place.

psneeld said:

Wow....getting like thruster threads....

If you have an alcoholic beverage you'll lose control of everything and crash and burn, death and mayhem.

Just like if that thruster goes out or you try to dock without one...you'll lose control of everything and crash and burn, death and mayhem.

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Recently you posted advocating a high level of advanced training for boaters. Now you seem to be implying that it's OK to drink alcohol and operate a boat. These ideas seem to be at odds with each other.

I would suggest one of the first things a potential boat operator should be trained is that alcohol and boating are an unsafe mix.

rwidman said:

Recently you posted advocating a high level of advanced training for boaters. Now you seem to be implying that it's OK to drink alcohol and operate a boat. These ideas seem to be at odds with each other.

I would suggest one of the first things a potential boat operator should be trained is that alcohol and boating are an unsafe mix.

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And you took the bait first.

Training is as important as anything and rarely gets discussed compared to many of the absurd and trivial things some here seem to hold so dear.

If you think one or two beers make a person unsafe or irresponsible...good for you.

I think a lot of things are irresponsible...maybe even unsafe....covering them all would be just as silly as some of the things I have seen here said about careful and limited consumption of alcoholic beverages.

At least I know I'm not a hypocrite and weigh all risks and remedies when I boat.

Again...if most out there think a beer or two in the average person is going to make or break boating...thankfully it's only opinions and we haven't entered either a police state or the twilight zone either.

I'll be glad to bow out of this discussion as long as there's no direct fingers pointed in my direction.

psneeld said:

And you took the bait first.

Training is as important as anything and rarely gets discussed compared to many of the absurd and trivial things some here seem to hold so dear.

If you think one or two beers make a person unsafe or irresponsible...good for you.

I think a lot of things are irresponsible...maybe even unsafe....covering them all would be just as silly as some of the things I have seen here said about careful and limited consumption of alcoholic beverages.

At least I know I'm not a hypocrite and weigh all risks and remedies when I boat.

Again...if most out there think a beer or two in the average person is going to make or break boating...thankfully it's only opinions and we haven't entered either a police state or the twilight zone either.

I'll be glad to bow out of this discussion as long as there's no direct fingers pointed in my direction.

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RickB .... RickB ...... is that you Rick ?

For my life, I may Dink and drink...with the trawler...a beer with lunch...bout it until she is secure..iced tea, water, fine...no more...until secure
I will drink with a dinghy run but Never in measurable amounts when running the big boat.

psneeld said:

And you took the bait first.

Training is as important as anything and rarely gets discussed compared to many of the absurd and trivial things some here seem to hold so dear.

If you think one or two beers make a person unsafe or irresponsible...good for you.

I think a lot of things are irresponsible...maybe even unsafe....covering them all would be just as silly as some of the things I have seen here said about careful and limited consumption of alcoholic beverages.

At least I know I'm not a hypocrite and weigh all risks and remedies when I boat.

Again...if most out there think a beer or two in the average person is going to make or break boating...thankfully it's only opinions and we haven't entered either a police state or the twilight zone either.

I'll be glad to bow out of this discussion as long as there's no direct fingers pointed in my direction.

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That a sober statement?? Just wondering!!

I wonder if the real question to be asking is not "How much impairment on your part are you willing to accept?" but "How much impairment on the part of other boaters are you willing to accept?"

While there are all kinds of potential impairments to one's boating--- physical handicaps, lack of training, lack of experience, etc.--- the one this thread seems to be about is is the reduction of mental capability in terms of observation, comprehension, judgement, and reaction due to the consumption of alcohol.

Back in the late 80s or early 90s, Aeroflot had a daily flight into Seatac airport. The flight typically arrived in the evening after dark. One evening the flight arrived as scheduled at which point the crew made not one, but two final approaches to Highway 99, which runs roughly parallel to the runways at Seatac a half mile or perhaps more to the east. Highway 99 is a very busy road in the Seatac area, and the vehicle traffic is very obvious from the air, even at night in less than ideal weather.

Fortunately, after two attempts to land the plane on the highway, someone on the flight deck either realized their mistake, or the tower finally got through to them, and their third attempt was lined up with an actual runway.

The Russian flight crew was found to have imbibed "a bit" of vodka during the flight. Didn't matter if the passengers behind them were drinking or not. Their future was tied directly to the capabilities of the guys up front.

So, if you are sitting on your boat in an anchorage, or jockying for position at the fuel dock, or transiting a lock, or maneuvering through a tight harbor, or following a narrow, twisting waterway, or simply going in a straight line minding your own business in the middle of the bay, what level of impairment are you willing to accept among the operators of the boats around you?

What degree of reaction time impairment are you okay with on the part of the operator of the boat coming around the corner at you, or trying to dock in front of your boat on a windy day? How much distance judgment impairment are you wiling to accept on the part of the operator who's fitting his boat into the lock alongside you? If you're sport trolling for salmon, how much attention and observation impairment are you willing to accept on the part of the other sportfishermen who are dragging their gear through the water near your boat?

If one is willing to accept the risk of endangerment to one's own boat from operators who see nothing wrong with having their own faculties impaired, even just "a tiny bit," by the consumption of alcohol, then I guess there is nothing wrong with posing the same risk to everyone else by consuming alcohol on one's own boat. Right?

BTW, endangerment does not have to mean death and destruction to all involved. Endangerment can mean having the teak handrail on one's boat broken by another boater who "slightly misjudged" the distance as he put his boat in front of yours on the dock.

We broke a teak handrail on the GB we chartered back in 1997. Not because of any alcoholic impairment but because of inexperience and a basic mistake with a mooring line on our part. The repair bill was over $3,000.

Mistakes and accidents happen and things get broken. The question is, is one willing to increase the risk of an accident by accepting some level of judgmental, observational, and reaction impairment on the part of the boaters around them? And if so, what level of impairment on board the boats around you is acceptable?

Alcohol and Boating
Driving Under the Influence

Boating while impaired is an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada.

Operators with more than 80 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood are liable to the following fines:

1st offence : at least $600 fine
2nd offence : at least 14 days of imprisonment
3rd offence : at least 90 days of imprisonment
The maximum sentence may vary depending on provincial statutes.

Consumption of Alcohol

In most provinces:
Alcohol may be consumed on board the pleasure craft only if it meets all of the following conditions:

The vessel has permanent sleeping facilities
The vessel has permanent cooking facilities
The vessel has a permanent toilet
The vessel is anchored or secured alongside a dock

(If you think one or two beers make a person unsafe or irresponsible...good for you.)

If you can handle one or two beers, great! I'm talking about over the limit. Nobody wants to stop a good time but here in the delta you get a demonstration of drunk boating every holiday weekend. I don't know if they consider open containers a violation. Got diabetes and stopped drinking... no sense wasting carbs on booze when there's chocolate and ice cream!

rwidman said:

I would like to see everyone's opinions on the subject of operating a boat while drinking.

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Not underway, not at anchor (have CQR ). When tied to a dock is ok.

I generally avoid crowded holidays on the water, and otherwise presume every other recreational boat operator is asleep, drunk, distracted, or ignorant unless otherwise demonstrated.

Marin said:

I wonder if the real question to be asking is not "How much impairment on your part are you willing to accept?" but "How much impairment on the part of other boaters are you willing to accept?"

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As to us and our boat, I'm not willing to accept any. As to others, if I had to answer, while I'd prefer none when operating, I'm willing to accept anything that keeps them below .05, but then I do accept the .08 limit most states have.

The reality, however, is that most of the serious alcohol related accidents far exceed the .08 level. It's amazing how many people will try to operate a boat at a .20 level.

It's like speeding on the highway, how much is ok? Most think 5 mph over or 10 mph over is. Most would say 150 mph isn't. Then there's everything in between and all the other factors.

I wish people would better recognize their own limitations. Unfortunately alcohol tends to make many unaware of theirs. I will say this too and that is that alcohol on the water was far more an issue on the lake we lived on than it is on the coast. It was every weekend and many times worse every holiday. On the coast it seems more an issue at special events.

I've not seen a lot of trawler's run dangerously due to alcohol. And the slower speed reduces the risk of serious problems.

I do also put a stricter burden on anyone carrying passengers for hire. Then I do think it should be zero, but I don't think drinking on the job is good in any job and especially a job that can endanger lives.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”

I'm saddened to see so much talk about drinking. It should'nt be that important. It should'nt get that much time and effort. There should be no need for it. Drinking is that stupid.

Anytime drinking is not centered around a "beverage" like apple juice it's an addiction and the person involved needs help. The evidence of how alcohol effects the brain and motor capabilities of humans is well known and can't be denied.

Like smoking drinking is just plain stupid and any smart person should be able to just say no. You probably now think I don't drink. I do consume some alcoholic beverages. But very few and very importantly there's no pattern. I may have two drinks in a week. And then none for a month. And if I miss it I would be to some degree addicted and the odds are that the addiction will grow. When you can't go for a week or two or three w/o a drink and missing it you have a problem.

Just say no to alcohol. And saying no should happen automatically w/o even thinking about it.

no problem til it hits home

2 Dead, 3 Hospitalized After Boating Accident In Lake St. Clair « CBS Detroit

manyboats said:

I'm saddened to see so much talk about drinking. It should'nt be that important. It should'nt get that much time and effort. There should be no need for it. Drinking is that stupid.

Anytime drinking is not centered around a "beverage" like apple juice it's an addiction and the person involved needs help. The evidence of how alcohol effects the brain and motor capabilities of humans is well known and can't be denied.

Like smoking drinking is just plain stupid and any smart person should be able to just say no. You probably now think I don't drink. I do consume some alcoholic beverages. But very few and very importantly there's no pattern. I may have two drinks in a week. And then none for a month. And if I miss it I would be to some degree addicted and the odds are that the addiction will grow. When you can't go for a week or two or three w/o a drink and missing it you have a problem.

Just say no to alcohol. And saying no should happen automatically w/o even thinking about it.

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Well said, especially the last sentence as that's where I am after 4 years without a drop. There was no one or two with me...one equalled many.

I saw a documentary where the alcohol drinking patterns of monkeys at a tropical island resort were being documented, where the monkeys were really adept at stealing drinks from tourists. Some never touched a drop, some occasionally had a drink or two, some binge drank, and some drank every day getting stumbling falling down drunk and passing out. The interesting part was that the percentage of each group exactly reflected the same groups in humans.

An artificially manipulated brain stem has considerable control over the rest of the brain when it stops getting what it has learned to love/crave/need.

manyboats said:

Anytime drinking is not centered around a "beverage" like apple juice it's an addiction and the person involved needs help.

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There goes communion at St. Joes.

I have a self-imposed rule that if I have to move the boat I don't drink. Period. I would feel like hell if I had too much to drink and injured someone or damaged my boat (or another boat) as a result of my condition.

Here's what can happen when someone drives a boat after drinking too much. I was hit by a BUI boater (I won't call him a 'skipper') one night and here are the results....









As you can imagine, I have little tolerance for those who drink while driving their boat.

bobsyiruncle said:

2 Dead, 3 Hospitalized After Boating Accident In Lake St. Clair « CBS Detroit

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As shown in the article: Drinking to excess can REALLY feck things up! In addition, drinking at all can diminish response time, muscle skills, and judgment calls when the sharpest of wit may suddenly be needed.

Eric (manyboats) put it well in post # 81... regarding how things should be.

Murray (MurrayM) put it well in post # 83.... regarding how things really are.

I'm going to add a small item:

If any person believes that any drinking or any unnecessary drug use is not a problem for operating equipment - - > they need to seek counsel. We've people dead and others injured in our family due to drug and alcohol misuse.

I'm not a Tea Totaler, saying to completely abstain... I am a realist, saying "Face The Facts" and don't hide behind BS that you are not at all affected by even small amounts (especially large amounts) of alcohol while operating any type machinery/equipment. If you really have convinced yourself to believe that - You Do Have A Problem! Believe me - I Know!!

I'll have a drink to that!!!

GFC said:

I would feel like hell if I had too much to drink and injured someone or damaged my boat (or another boat) as a result of my condition.

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That is why I don't speed excessively. Yes, I own a sports car capable of 160+ mph and it's never seen 90. I knew a woman once who hit and killed a pedestrian who just stepped out from between cars. It wasn't her fault and she wasn't ticketed even. But I first saw her 20 years later and she still had tremors. I don't know how I'd deal with being involved in a serious and/or fatal accident even if I did everything right. But if I was driving 100 mph, or drinking while at the helm of my boat or texting while driving or operating the boat in a crowded area but totally distracted by what my wife and I were doing instead of paying attention to the task at hand, then I know I would carry that guilt the rest of my life. That's just how I am. So, I cannot take that chance. In looking out for the other guy, I'm also looking out for myself.

That's why I'm also strict on guest behavior on the boat. On the lake there was always someone who wanted to ride on the sunpad and I wouldn't allow it. One sudden large wave, not paying attention, over and into the prop. When underway at speed in anything but completely calm waters, I don't allow people to ride on the bow. And if conditions are bad enough, I require PFD's for everyone. I love boating so much, I want to keep it safe. I don't want something to occur that will keep me from ever enjoying it again.

Now this isn't just an alcohol philosophy but my total approach to it. I don't let it scare me from enjoying it, but I do remain conservative in my approach trying to keep it as safe as I can. I don't go to Biscayne Bay for the July 4 fireworks. If I did, I'd have a slip for the night. But then you'll never see me on the roads at 3:00 AM on New Years. Last New Years Eve we did have 20 people at our home but all spent the night.

Guys, this is Trawler Forum

I know you all know that but when we are thinking about driving our trawlers around after a few drinks most here tend to not consider that.

Do we have the same feelings about driving around our PWC's or other "small" boats?

Do most TF members even own a small "recreational" vessel like a PWC?

It seems its not the trawlers causing the accidents, its the small very fast boats that appear to be causing them.

So, if you have a PWC do you drive it after a few beers or glasses of wine? I bet you do. Actually I bet that a rather large percentage of PWC operators in the late afternoon or evening hours have had a few cocktails.

I live on the water and have observed PWC and ski boat behavior first hand for much of my adult life. I am also a PWC and pontoon boat owner, and I do drink, so I am familiar with what happens.

During the day, kids rule the PWC's on the lake. This is their time to play. As afternoon leads to evening the kids are somewhat replaced by their parents. Parents that have been sitting around having a few cocktails. This transition generally occurs around 5-6 pm. Thats when you see the older guys and gals doing 60 miles an hour on their PWC's. Thats when you see the parents being pulled on the tubes. After a few drinks, they loose some of their adult inhibitions and go for it.

Thats the time of day that accidents occur.

I'll admit that while I take my big boat driving very seriously and do not drink and drive I do not take my PWC operation with the same seriousness. I have no issues having a few drinks and going out on my watercraft. I am not going to apologize for it, or even defend it. Am I legally drunk, well probably not. At 215 lbs and at say a drink an hour or so I'm never legally drunk. But remember I am not the average recreational boater. I live on the lake, so its not "party time" all day long like it is for many lake goers. We have habits, and "happy hour" starts around 5:00 pm. In my opinion most recreational boaters make going to the lake somewhat of a relaxing party and consume alcohol earlier in the day and at greater levels that we do. They are away from home relaxing.

That said, there are intoxicated people out on my lake every Friday and Saturday evening playing and having fun. I bet none of them think they are doing anything wrong. They are just having fun.

Should they be on the water... Well no they should not be. But they are there and very little we say here is going to change that.

BandB said:

... totally distracted by what my wife and I were doing instead of paying attention to the task at hand...

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Say no more... Say No More!