window replacement

Okay, I am going for the gusto so to speak and replacing both aft stateroom windows. A 1979 42LRC. the windows are of course about 8+ feet long in 3 parts (middle part a slider). I cannot find anything on replacement of these, or replacement wood windows..so looks like I have to go metal frame.

To install new windows, I will have to cut out all the old wood in order to have a clean hole to install.. but here is my question.... since there are 2 "uprights" separating the 3 portions of window, are those structural? Do they carry any load that is going to cause me issues if I have the hole there for a week or two?

We do live aboard and if moving the boat while having the windows out could cause structural stress, I guess I can pay to have someone do a pump-out when needed...

It would be nice if someone had documented this process before (other than general porthole replacements)... I am ready to tackle it, but it would be nice to have seen what someone else did

I would imagine they are structural besides 2" is the minimum space to get 2 window flanges to land on, they are usually 3/4 or 7/8" wide each

tmiller1116 said:

Okay, I am going for the gusto so to speak and replacing both aft stateroom windows. A 1979 42LRC. the windows are of course about 8+ feet long in 3 parts (middle part a slider). I cannot find anything on replacement of these, or replacement wood windows..so looks like I have to go metal frame.

Click to expand...

No. . . . they are not structural.

If I remember correctly the windows are closer to 9'. . . .I replaced mine some years ago with aluminum. You will want to totally remove the window glass and the old wood frames. When you take it out you will understand why it leaks!! It's a piece of junk!!!

You are lucky though. .because you have Peninsula Glass right there close in Vancouver, WA. At the time I replaced mine they were doing a lot of marine work and had the right stuff.

Probably want to do one window at a time, unless your boat is under cover.
I had them remove the slider totally because we never opened them and it just simplified the install and guaranteed "no leaks". My new frames are one piece Aluminum, but the glass is in two piece sections with a center post in the middle. Either you or if you're hiring someone to do the install will have to trace the window opening outline on paper. I used white butcher paper which worked well. The windows slid in with just some minor mods to the opening. Give them a call you will be happy!!

Here is a link to their web page: Company | Peninsula Glass CompanyPeninsula Glass Company

well, I have decided to try going with wood to keep the look..... #1 son will try to remake the new frame from oak... and we saved 2/3 of the glass. One was cracked so have to have it remade. then we will seal, install and seal again.. then he will make new teak trim since the original kind of got .................... destroyed on removal.

Right now I am sitting with a 9' long hole in my boat and I wake up in the middle of every night thinking "WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?!"

I broke many of those window panes over the years, removing the rear windows, re-caulking and re-seating the frames at least three different times. The worse was when my brother-in-law, then boat partner, decided to reseal them with 5200. That was a really really bad idea as the seal factor was very short lived and the 5200 was very very difficult to remove from the porous wood frames.

The vibration of the twin diesels, sets up a vibration in those 9' windows which breaks the sealers adhesive grip between the glass, wood frames and fiberglass cabin.

Since replacing them 9 or 10 years ago with aluminum, I haven't had leak one. The aluminum windows use a sandwiched gasket seal instead of an adhesive seal. And doesn't rely on an adhesion between the three materials to remain watertight. You can always save the Mahogany and Teak edge trim and install it over the aluminum frames if you like that look.

Good luck with your project.
Larry b

ok, between your post and #1 son stressing over how to make the frame solid enough for rough handling... I guess metal it is.... at least he can still make the trim to go over the flanges.... was kind of hoping to avoid the cost, but guess I have to bite the bullet on this one.

Interesting thread and one I would have read and not thought much about until about a week ago. My wife and I were out for a Sunday cruise on the UMR, passing L&D 14 on the upper Miss. It was windy. I told her to go on the bow with boat hook in hand and grab the line just past the recess in the lock wall. I would maneuver in and grab the aft line when I got the boat in position. The boat in front of me decided he was the only boat in the world and didn't leave much behind him. I suppose with a 600 foot long lock, he thought if I pull in past 50 feet or so that should be good enough. The wife was yelling that I was getting too close to the boat ahead, when I stopped. She caught the line but thought she should try to stop my forward progress. I thought I was in control and would throw the engines in reverse when I had room. As she tried to stop the 22,000 lbs. she moved aft to get a better angle on the line. The boat was moving towards the wall, which I didn't care much about since we had fenders out to stop it. She tried to push off the wall with her boat hook, but 22,000 pounds doesn't change directions easily. SHe pushed the wall not realizing she was in front of the front salon window. Well, when a 4 foot long boat hook gets between a window and a lock wall with 3 feet of clearance, bad things happen. A couple of days ago I began the repair process. It's tough to get things done that are technical in nature on a boat in Iowa. The glass companies won't touch it, teak trim and boats are not there income. The boat people I don't trust for exotic fixes so alas it's a do it yourself project. I got it apart easier than I guessed. took about two hours. The hardest part was getting the phillips head screws out from the outer trim. careful work with a pick and a old fillet knife to dig 6 to 8 layers of varnish out of the head recesses allowed all the screws but one to be removed. The odd one twisted off just below the head. A flush cut saw blade in the Fien multi master cut the bedding free. I got the broken glass out and cleaned off the inner frame with the Fein and a scraper blade. I then made a poster board template for the glass. The glass company suggested I replace the glass with laminated safety glass. I got to thinking about that and decided the standard 1/4" tinted glass lasted 30+ years why do I need laminated glass? I am getting prices before I decide. I will take pictures and post as I put it back together. I have had no leaks, no problems. on any of the windows. My only observations are that use of 5200 would be a disaster. I'll probably go with silicone. More to follow.

Good question on the safety glass. . . My windshield glass is safety glass, has the little logo in the corner of the glass, but all the other windows are just glass.

The main cabin windows are easy to seal up and I left my wood frame windows in, just pull the bottom trim off every 4 or 5 years and clean with a razor scraper, reseal the bottom and lower corners, let the sealer dry and put the trim back on and they're good for a while!! Those 9' long rear cabin windows on the tri-cabin boats are another story. Too much window glass for wood frames!!

I use GE silicon II black for all the seams and exterior rail screws. Why black. . .my sailboater neighbor says it survives the sun better than white or clear. Do I believe him. . . he's a sailboater. . . heck NO!! I don't know, but I do like the black seal look and when the seal fails, it's easy to visually spot. 5200 is no good for window seals, at least for wood frames.

Good luck on your project!!
Larry B

Greetings,
Well, you have basically three choices. Regular sheet/plate glass, laminated safety or tempered glass. Personally, I would go with the laminated safety.

If $ was no object, I could consider polycarbonate. But then if $ was no object, despite loving my Californian, I think I might have a different boat.

If money were no object. . I wouldn't own a boat at all !! I would buy a suite on the Condo Ship, "The World". Anybody want to write me into their Will for $6,000,000???

I don't allow silicone on my boat, in any of its forms. Larry, I'll write you into my will for 6Mil, but you have to share the cabin with Crazy Mary. Oh...and since I don't have 6M, it might not matter.

I don't party with her anymore . . . . I don't want to get banned from Village Pizza too!! Ha Ha !!

Please keep us posted on your project. Our LRC is in need of the same replacement as well. The PO had a Sunbrella tarp (rail to rail over the boom) made to protect these windows from the Puget Sound weather. There is no evidence of leaks from these however the port side window is cracked. Since we plan to eventually replace all of the windows I figure this would be a good place to start. The Peninsula windows recommened by Edelweiss look top notch. A shipwright in Poulsbo recommened them highly as well.

U use what 4300? Or is that 4200? Anyway 4000 something by 3m

welll... funny you should ask.. I literally finished this last weekend...





I have to say.. quite the job.. If you are going to use Peninsula(aka Motion Windows) make a VERY careful tracing of your existing window. That is what they will make and if you are off... well. Be advised that right now they have about an 8 week lead time to completion. At least they did for me. We used a sawz-all to remove the window and then made our pattern from the removed frame... was very close and only needed minimal adjustment... but it would have been even better if we had traced out the actual hole as well... just make sure you cut very straight and we had to live with a massive hole in the side for 2 months..

We have found one issue though.. Not sure if this is norm for these boats. The actual thickness of the wall at the forward end of the window is 1.5 inches. as it moves aft it slowly widens until at the aft end of the window the wall is actually 2 inches thick. This means that the inner trim ring (which we had set for the 2 inches) is too wide at the fore end, and will need to be shimmed. The other option is to replace the inside trim with wood again, but it will need to be custom cut and routed to fill in the taper... have not decided yet. Additionally, since the ring will have to be cut due to the bathroom wall that divides the window, the ring has to be purely aesthetic. Normally you would screw from the inside thru the ring and into the frame on the outside to "suck it in"... Due to the wall thickness and bathroom wall, we have to go with seal and screws on the outside. Not quite as pretty, but they do paint the supplied screws to match

Yes, we used 4200... after spending hours trying to pull the teak trim that had been secured with 5200, I hate that stuff

Oh, and the dark crap around the window is tape residue ... 2 months with plastic over the hole.. still need to clean it off.

One last note... we did both windows... and the total cost was a shy bit north of $1200... we picked up directly at factory, so don't knwo if that cut shipping costs or not....

Nice looking job

I've been working on an older Hatteras with teak windows. Early in this boats life one of the owners thought he would upgrade the appearance by having Teak salon windows made. Hatteras used very heavy aluminum anodized frames with tinted laminated glass. Very durable and strong. I've been trying to stop the leaks on these wood windows for some time. Impossible to do. I think you made a good choice going with aluminum. You #1 sounds handy, have him bandsaw fillers to match the aluminum frames out of teak or mahogany. Don't use oak, oak is prone to rot and blackens and streaks when wet. Mahogany is about 1/5 the cost of teak and works as easy, that would be my choice.

tmiller1116 said:

welll... funny you should ask.. I literally finished this last weekend...

We have found one issue though.. Not sure if this is norm for these boats. The actual thickness of the wall at the forward end of the window is 1.5 inches. as it moves aft it slowly widens until at the aft end of the window the wall is actually 2 inches thick. This means that the inner trim ring (which we had set for the 2 inches) is too wide at the fore end, and will need to be shimmed. The other option is to replace the inside trim with wood again, but it will need to be custom cut and routed to fill in the taper... have not decided yet. Additionally, since the ring will have to be cut due to the bathroom wall that divides the window, the ring has to be purely aesthetic. Normally you would screw from the inside thru the ring and into the frame on the outside to "suck it in"... Due to the wall thickness and bathroom wall, we have to go with seal and screws on the outside. Not quite as pretty, but they do paint the supplied screws to match

Click to expand...

Oh wow!! That is different? Mine was the same wall thickness bow and aft end. The starboard side was a trick because, as you say, the bathroom wall divides the window, but the trim ring was two piece, a top and bottom half. So we placed the trim rings inside of the window hole first then slowly slid the window in, positioning the trim as the window came in. All screws were on the inside, the trim clamping the window frame to the cabin and the window is gasket sealed, so no sealant. Took four sets of hands to accomplish this!!!

Looks Great

Well done! Thanks for the pic and details. The tapering wall thickness will be something to watch for. We've only had ours since the end of July and have been using it as much as we can before the warm weather becomes a memory. The two must do's for us currently are to re-seal the port slider as well as the bridge/deck junction. I hope to get some of the brightwork done before winter as well.

It sounds like you haven't discovered the solution for removing 5200. Marine Formula! Used with great success when I removed my ports.

I don't know about that.. seems like a sawz-all worked quite well!

For those of you who have used Peninsula Glass, I just received my new windows. I was under the impression the seal was to be flange seal tape however peninsula glass did not provide the tape and suggested I use Sikaflex 295UV.

What did you folks use for the seal during install?

1. Do not use red oak from home depot (thats all they sell), it will rot. If you are set on oak, then get some white oak which is quite rot resistant.

2. I am in the process of replacing 17 windows on my boat with Bomon windows. this is the third boat I have installed Bomon windows on and have never seen a leak. The nice thing about these windows is that no screws go into the boat structure. There are inner and outer aluminum frames and they screw together like a clamp.

boatpoker said:

1. Do not use red oak from home depot (thats all they sell), it will rot. If you are set on oak, then get some white oak which is quite rot resistant.

2. I am in the process of replacing 17 windows on my boat with Bomon windows. this is the third boat I have installed Bomon windows on and have never seen a leak. The nice thing about these windows is that no screws go into the boat structure. There are inner and outer aluminum frames and they screw together like a clamp.

Click to expand...

What did you use to seal the outside frame to the fiberglass. Flange seal tape, 4200, other?

TG said:

What did you use to seal the outside frame to the fiberglass. Flange seal tape, 4200, other?

Click to expand...

No sealant is used. A simple foam gasket is supplied with the windows.

TG said:

For those of you who have used Peninsula Glass, I just received my new windows. I was under the impression the seal was to be flange seal tape however peninsula glass did not provide the tape and suggested I use Sikaflex 295UV.

What did you folks use for the seal during install?

Click to expand...

What?? They didn't include a roll of double back foam seal tape. Cheap so and so's Someone must have forgot to throw it in the box or you have a different style window?

Are your windows two piece with an inner trim ring that is attached from the inside and clamps the window frame, holding it in places with machine screws??? If it is, you apply the foam seal tape to the inside rim of the aluminum window frame "before" you insert the window and frame into the hole. Do not use liquid sealer.


PS: If you're not satisfied with the hardware store foam tape, check with a local window company. I recall the foam tape was about 1/2" x 1/2", but maybe one of the others who just bought Pens windows can give you exact measurements and makers name from their left over tape roll.

Capn Craig said:

....why do I need laminated glass?.

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Because when laminated glass cracks, it doesn't shatter into a zillion pieces or crack into larger pieces that fall out of the frame and leave an open hole in the side of the cabin.

When a piece of laminated glass cracks, it cracks but it stays put. You can put a piece of tape over the crack to keep moisture out and keep the pane from cracking more, but it will stay put in the window frame.

Our boats all use laminated glass. The 1973 Grand Banks in the PNW was built this way, and as we have rebuilt windows on it over the years, we have used laminated glass as the replacement panes, both fixed and sliding.

Tempered glass and just plain old glass are less than ideal on a boat.

As to beding window frames to the fiberglass cabin side, for the wooden frames on our PNW boat we use white Dolfinite. Dolfinite makes a great bedding material but it's not adhesive. Since the frames are held in place by a whole lot of screws, no adhesion in the bedding is needed. The reason we use Doflinite is if we have to remove the frame later (cracked pane or whatever) it makes the frame extremely easy to remove.

For all the other sealing/bedding in the boat's built-up windows including the fixed panes of glass we use Sikaflex.

I would seriously consider butyl tape as a window bedding. I've never done the job and here may be better products out there, but it has lots of advantages.

The Butyl tape is not suitable for all applications, but it is fairly easy to work with; both going on & coming off. I used it to bed some window framing that had to be replaced in our Californian 34 worked well.