Hands on Training
- Thread starter psneeld
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
OP
OP
psneeld
Guru
Before they hit the "real world" though and actually become OOD qualified...the average Navy Ensign blows just about every boater I know out of the water in every category but small boat handling. Most of the exceptions I would say are some of the people right here and some other forums...absolutely the top tier cruisers out there have enormous experience. But I'm saying most boaters are not the top tier guys/gals.
No...the guy running a navy ship is not "just off the street"...the average academy grad has 4 years of exposure to boat/shiphandling and then hundreds of hands on hours training on the bridge...far more intense than any USCG Captains school.
Comparing a Navy OOD to some kid still in the Academy practicing is like comparing one of us to the guy with his first over 18 foot "Clorox bottle" and getting some training from the brokerage.
Moonstruck
Guru
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No where did I say that they were anything close to an OOD of an active Navy ship. He said they had to start somewhere, and the first missteps were important to their development. They either mastered it or washed out. They usually became fine ship handlers. However, from an old army guy that saw the classes "step off" on a march, they were sloppy marchers.
Excellent list, Bill. Ours has primarily been through MTA but there are many excellent schools. As to Captains, it depends on where you are and what type boat and boating. If our interest was sailing, we met some on the Chesapeake we'd definitely go to.
As to Captains, the ones we used aren't available to train now but there are many in most of the boating areas. Sailmiami has some listed on their site. You might post an ad here looking for a captain to train you and be surprised how many there are in your area. Boatcaptainsonline has a few interested in training.
Also in chartering you can meet some you're comfortable with and get referrals on others. Or inquire at respected shipyards. We got our lead from a shipyard.
The best captain to teach may not be the one with the most credentials from a licensing standpoint as some don't want to fool with teaching others. Some of the best captains too are tied up on boats, so often some of those who provide management services are the easiest to get the time from.
Should mention we were also impressed, although took no classes there, with International Crew Training (Yachtmaster.com). However, to us they seemed more aimed toward MCA and RYA and we were interested in USCG.
OP
OP
psneeld
Guru
Sorry.... re-read your post .....
The ABYC and USCG standards are based on safety. They are the result of accident investigation, research and testing. The wise and safety conscious boater will follow them when at all possible.
The result of using unsafe materials or practices are just as dangerous for "puddle crossers" as for ocean going vessels. The only real difference is that you might have a shorter distance to swim to shore.
OP
OP
psneeld
Guru
Safety from a worst case scenario....not every piece of moving machinery has the same safety features required...and just about every piece known to man has had a fatality associated with it.
Oversimplify any thought process and it works its way back to zero sum.
Oversimplify any thought process and it works its way back to zero sum.
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Advanced training:
Week with captain practicing docking mostly in Anacortes
Week with captain practicing many things on west coast of Florida
Senior Navigator Power Squadron (all courses)
50 ton captain's license.
Bob Smith's engine maintenance course
Sailboat racing with guys who thought Captain Blyth was a softie
Taught both classroom and hands on boating courses for last 10 years
Krogen Rendezvous courses over 15 years
Week with captain practicing docking mostly in Anacortes
Week with captain practicing many things on west coast of Florida
Senior Navigator Power Squadron (all courses)
50 ton captain's license.
Bob Smith's engine maintenance course
Sailboat racing with guys who thought Captain Blyth was a softie
Taught both classroom and hands on boating courses for last 10 years
Krogen Rendezvous courses over 15 years
Sounds like a great path. Curious as to some of the other questions psneeld asked, have you done anything in regards to rescue, survival, fire, medical and some of those areas? Or other specialized training you might think of that many overlook?
I do think I'll pass on the Captain Blyth saling.
One thing I've found out too is that when one starts certain things are considered to be the challenges. Things like docking and just handling and basic navigation. As one gets experience, they find out those are the easy things, and there are other areas that are more difficult.
Honestly, we never worry or give a second thought to docking. At least as long as the dockmaster doesn't want us to put a boat with a 21'+ beam into a slip that's only 19' wide. But every new inlet is unique and different and needs to be carefully considered. Every area has it's on challenges.
Oh and the single hardest thing for me to master, which makes my wife laugh when I say it, Marlinspike Seamanship. Knots and splicing. And I realize I must not be the only one every time I read about a tender floating away.
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Can you mention which schools/captains you used either in PM or on this thread?
We have looked at a couple schools on the west coast of FLA which is sorta easy for us to attend.
We really loved Anacortes when we visited for Trawler Fest in May. Depending on who shows up at the west coast Trawler Fest in 2015, we are planning on attending and maybe getting there a bit early to take some training before the show.
Later,
Dan
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Originally decided not to mention the operations because it was so long ago (actually last century). In Florida, Southwest Florida Yacht Charters, In Anacordes is was Anacordes Yacht Charters.
For comic relief the first time I ever docked a Krogen 42 without a captain aboard, the boat that was sharing the slip was Nordhavn's "First Forty" just delivered. Go big or go home.
Mule
Guru
I was trained on "small" boats by the US Navy. It was a 65' ( if memory serves) twin 6-71 landing craft. I was a BM3 and the Chief pitched me some keys, said, "I need you to learn how to run that landing craft to ferry liberty sailors from our Destroyer while deployed. School consist of, by myself ramming....eer landing the craft against a deserted pier until I had it down......B4 it was over I could spin her walk her sideways in either direction and after I figgered her out no spring lines necessary......I wonder if the tides floated all those creosote splinters out to sea I left floating from crash....I mean landing her
markpierce
Master and Commander
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California Maritime Academy cadets on Cub practicing docking against a bridge pier in strong Carquinez Strait current:
They also practice on small sailboats in the strait as well as on months-long summer cruises on training ship Golden Bear, now in Hawaiian waters.
They also practice on small sailboats in the strait as well as on months-long summer cruises on training ship Golden Bear, now in Hawaiian waters.
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Thank you.
We are looking at those two companies but if there are others we will check them out as well.
Thanks,
Dan
In my opinion, boating, like everything else involving operating a machine, is 90% logic and common sense and 10% training. And I believe that most people, if they possess a fair degree of logic and common sense and have learned how to learn (the only real value in getting a college degree
), can dispense with formal training in the case of recreational boating.There is a ton of good and accurate information on virtually every aspect of operating a boat. This is nothing new; there have been countless books and articles published for decades if not centuries.
This has been augmented by the internet where one can learn about everything from anchoring to zincs. The downside of the internet, of course, is that since it requires no effort to "be in print," it is far more difficult to separate the accurate from the inaccurate. The time, effort, cost, and multiple review process of getting a book published tends to weed out most of the inaccurate rubbish beforehand.
So a person who truly desires to become a knowledgeable, responsible, and safe recreational boater can get all the information they need to become one if they make the effort to search it out and read it (and watch how-to videos on YouTube
).This is not to say I don't believe there is value in classroom and hands-on training from someone experienced in the subject, be it weather, navigation, maneuvering, etc.
We took the multi-session USCG Auxiliary boating course when we bought our 17' Arima in 1987. While we both already knew or had been exposed to most of what was being taught, it served as a great refresher and reminder, and we did learn new stuff, particularly about hypothermia and local weather (both classes taught be working experts in the fields).
Years later we chartered a GB36 when we decided to explore the notion of getting into this kind of boating, and we had about two hours of practice with the charter company's checkout skipper, mostly to do with docking and close-in maneuvering, as we had never run a boat of this type.
That has been the extent of our "formal" training. The rest of it has been 27 years of running our own boats in a variety of PNW and BC locations and conditions. That's not counting the years of sailing and fishing I did on friends' boats in Hawaii before moving here, the racing crew experience (sail) I had here in the early 80s, and my wife's years of boating with her dad.
Combine this with over three decades of float flying in Washington, BC, and SE Alaska, and the northwest coastal marine environment is something we are very familiar and comfortable with and in, even though we know we have only scratched the surface in terms of our boating knowledge, and that there are countless conditions and situations we have yet to experience.
When we are going to encounter something new, like the narrow passes up north with their tidal currents that can run 10 knots or more, we talk to experienced people we know and read about the best techniques of dealing with these passes, and then we follow the accepted practices.
Which brings me back to my opening statement. My wife and I have found that successful, safe and enjoyable boating is directly proportional to the degree of logic, common sense, and self-reliability one brings to the undertaking. These attributes can perhaps lead one to take classes, perhaps hire instructors, perhaps research, read, and learn about a particular aspect of boating on one's own. But I think the most important thing these attributes will do is motivate one to take it one step at a time, retain what is learned and experienced, and put it into practice.
All the while keeping in mind the words I heard so many times from Alan Mulally when I worked with him that they are burned into my brain, "Remember, this is supposed to be fun."
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ulysses
Guru
Marine fire fighting-Delgado College
Radar- Delgado College
Numerous courses to completion of Master Unlimited Tonnage Steam or Motor / Inland and Western Rivers
Tankerman
Lifeboatman
Stability and Trim for Ship's Officer course
Taught Seamanship in Jefferson Parish H.S. East and West
Six years experience with Licensed Chief Engineer (Steam)
Four years experience as Mate on Inspected Vessels
Four years experience as Pilot on unlimited tonnage Steam
First Class Pilot unlimited tonnage Inland/ Western Rivers (sections of Ohio and Miss. only)
Fifteen years experience as Captain and Pilot of Un-inspected towing vessels liquid and dry bulk Western Rivers and Inland
Sea School Refresher Course
First Aid
Radar- Delgado College
Numerous courses to completion of Master Unlimited Tonnage Steam or Motor / Inland and Western Rivers
Tankerman
Lifeboatman
Stability and Trim for Ship's Officer course
Taught Seamanship in Jefferson Parish H.S. East and West
Six years experience with Licensed Chief Engineer (Steam)
Four years experience as Mate on Inspected Vessels
Four years experience as Pilot on unlimited tonnage Steam
First Class Pilot unlimited tonnage Inland/ Western Rivers (sections of Ohio and Miss. only)
Fifteen years experience as Captain and Pilot of Un-inspected towing vessels liquid and dry bulk Western Rivers and Inland
Sea School Refresher Course
First Aid
Mule
Guru
Ok, you are hired......even though you are overqualified ..... With you we are going to break with our tradition of hiring unqualified boobs.... Welcome aboard....oh yeah...we pay on the unqualified boob scale....sorry...
Wifey B: How do you decide if boobs are qualified or not? Is it by feel or looks or size or shape? Oh, silly me. I took it literally.....
Mule
Guru
Taste.......literally speaking..... Sometimes the nuzzle factor adds points...in the figger of speech used as a metaphor I guess that would be dumb ass... What do u think ...ur call
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ulysses
Guru
I don't hold any of those licenses anymore, would be hard pressed to do the physical involved with life boating drills as learned, still retain the marlin spike seamanship skills, and if I don't remember some of the training, or courses at least I know where to look for the book or notes.
I was extremely blessed by learning boat handling from Capt. Verne Streackfus, Captain of the Steamer President in the 1970's. He departed and landed twice a day at the foot of Canal Street on the Miss. River no matter the current, eddy, and only once canceled for weather. 300' long, 4.5' draft and 50' of broad air catching superstructure powered with two wooden steam driven paddle wheels controlled by the engineer so there was about a two minute delay from giving an engine command until the engine responded (if the engineer was at station). He was doing it late in his 80's.
I treasure every minute I ever spent with him.
I was extremely blessed by learning boat handling from Capt. Verne Streackfus, Captain of the Steamer President in the 1970's. He departed and landed twice a day at the foot of Canal Street on the Miss. River no matter the current, eddy, and only once canceled for weather. 300' long, 4.5' draft and 50' of broad air catching superstructure powered with two wooden steam driven paddle wheels controlled by the engineer so there was about a two minute delay from giving an engine command until the engine responded (if the engineer was at station). He was doing it late in his 80's.
I treasure every minute I ever spent with him.
