Erie Canal Observations

I just got back from a ten day, 125 mile, 21 lock each way trip across about 1/3 of the Erie Canal. So here are some observations about the canal and what you see along the way:

I have a hard time seeing how the NY Canal Corp can afford to keep that canal running. On an average day of 25 miles and 4 locks we passed 1-2 boats coming against us. On 30 of the 42 lock passages we were the only vessel in the lock. The $50 we paid for our 10 day pass can't possibly pay for even the labor of the lock keepers, much less repairs and maintenance of the canal.

We stayed at free walls and docks for 9 of the nights and an inexpensive ($30) town dock for one night. Four of the free docks (Canal Corp and town docks) had decent access to an adjacent town- Canajoharie, Little Falls, Rome and Sylvan Beach. A couple of times we tied up in the middle of no where. We probably spent $100 on meals and groceries in those towns, but the margin on that stuff won't pay for the dock upkeep.

Basically there isn't enough traffic on the canal to justify either the canal operation or the free town docks. At least not with what we spent in the towns on our cheap cruising budget. And except for one professionally crewed 75' or so yacht, everyone else seemed to be in our financial strata. I guess I should mention a 150' canal cruise boat that probably does pay some serious dough to pass through, but I don't have a clue where they tie up at night- not the free docks I am sure.

There were some nice spots to tie up. Little Falls has a very nice free Rotary Club sponsored dock very close to town, but it is a very high 8' wall. The town was nice and a bit quaint. Groceries and a half dozen restaurants were easily accessible.

Canajoharie had the best dock- a floating one that holds about 4 boats and provides free 30 amp power, but no wifi. None of the free docks had wifi except for the fantastic free dock at the Waterford Welcome Center, but I really don't count that one since it is just outside of the canal. The Canajoharie town center was just a three block walk away from the dock and they had a free Celtic band playing on the town green that night.

Rome was kind of a bust- an industrial looking environment near the dock. Sylvan Beach was the most fun. On Saturday night there must have been a thousand boats- pontoon, cruisers, runabouts and jet skis that "cruised through the hamburger stand" that afternoon and early evening, capped off with a short fireworks show. There was a 50s style amusement park right behind the wall, a couple of decent restaurants and a nearby swimming beach on Lake Oneida.

The one paid dock we stayed at was in Scotia, near Schenectady. It was located in a beautiful town park which had a free rock concert that night. But the town itself was kind of a bust.

Here are a few pics. The first is approaching the Waterford Welcome Center on the right with the first canal on the left under the bridge. The second is a typical dam spillway and canal pair. The third is approaching lock 7. The fourth is the countryside about 70 miles up the canal.

All in all I am glad I did it once, but wouldn't do it again.

Not sure what you are getting at...

Sounds like you had a nice time...visited new places and it was thoroughly reasonable...

I understand it's not for everyone but you sound like it was a huge disappointment that it wasn't something else...what were you looking for?

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing.

Thanks for sharing. Headed that way next year. We hope.

psneeld:

To summarize:

The canal system can't possibly pay for itself.

There were a few nice places, a few busts and a few so-so ones.

My previous impression, gained from this site and others was that the Erie Canal is an idyllic environment with quaint towns along the way, each with a great tie up that welcomed cruisers. With a few exceptions, not so, at least on the stretch that we cruised.

David

Definitely more modern than I expected. Fancy/modern lock(s), and no mules?

Too bad you trip was so so. The Erie is on my list. Maybe if ya spent a few $$$ at happy hour or rented a car shopped in a store you might of seen more. I can't fathom a ten day trip and only spending $180.00. Maybe you can share tips with my Admiral.

Free docks, live music, cheap eats. What more could you want. You know, you might be behind (or ahead of) the crowd. And really, who wants to wait for the party boat to clear the lock. First in-first out, no waiting, sounds great to me. And yeah, the mayor isn't dockside with a key to the city, but hey, stop wearing those dark sunglasses. Maybe they'll recognize you for the celebrity you are.

I have spoken with many boaters that have done the Erie and/or Trent system and it seems you either love it or not (locking through), but having experienced the Trent in busy times with a bunch of houseboats used like bumper cars, I think I personally would have appreciated the light traffic and tranquil setting that you experienced. We do have some nice little towns along the Trent however, but you pay plenty to stop at them. Always nice to hear others opinions, thanks for posting.

The Erie Canal was a big historical milestone in our country's history. Is it really necessary for it to be self supporting or profitable to be kept alive? Are all of our monuments profitable or self supporting? Maybe we should rename it the ATT-Erie Canal and while we are at it it make it the Ford Motor Company-Lincoln Memorial....I hope you readers get my point, and the mere suggestion that our heritage should be self supporting is extremely offensive to me...but that is just me.

First, as to the finances. It was once a huge commercial system. However, today there is just a small amount of commercial traffic. Still it is built now and shutting it down would cause hardship to a lot of towns and businesses as well as commercial entities. Everything doesn't stand profitably on it's on but some things are parts of a whole. We drive on roads all the time that don't pay for themselves. So we pay taxes to keep them up.

As to the canal, you did only see 1/3 and saw it rather quickly and not much in depth. Now, that said, I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. It's an opinion and what you got out of it. Obviously not the place for you. However, I've read many stories of those who have transited the canal and you are the first who didn't like it. Had a friend who was just through it and loved it. The great thing is different places for different people. We look forward to seeing it although it's not our ultimate destination. Still we like to experience different areas. Now we will spend more than $180 in ten days. And we'll explore the history, the culture, the art.

We did the entire Erie Canal last summer from Albany to Buffalo. It was, by far, our favorite part of the entire Great Loop. We spent 5 weeks going across it, stayed at 22 towns, had 4 mayors catch our lines, and saw 4 town bands give public concerts. I spoke at town council meetings and one Rotary luncheon along the way. All my talks were about how to bring more cruising boaters to upstate NY. There were about 6 newspaper articles written about it although I prefer the mentions given on about 10 town websites and local online news better. A typical story is like this one:
http://www.waynecountylife.com/2013/08/active-captain-and-capella-visit-lyons.html

The canal from Waterford to Brewerton is definitely, without question, the less interesting half. Once past the Oswego Canal, life changes and there are more towns like Canajorharie (in the east) with open arms and interesting things to do. Without seeing Lyons, Fairport, Brockton, Spencerport, and a ton of other small towns on the western side, you just aren't seeing the Erie Canal. It's kind of like cruising the Chesapeake by going along the Patapsco River and spending time in Baltimore. Yeah, you were on the Chesapeake but you sort of missed the real Chesapeake Bay.

If the towns along the Erie Canal organized just a little, it would become a whallop of a cruising destination. The NYS Canals (owners of the locks but sadly part of the NYS Thruway organization) seem to do everything possible to hurt themselves without realizing it. I had numerous conversations with an executive director there and gave a few specific suggestions. I also met with multiple directors of the NY Canal Corp, a marketing arm for the towns along the Erie Canal. I also gave a presentation at a board meeting of theirs held in Spencerport. They agreed with my suggestions for the Thruway authority and supposedly tried to have them implemented this year. Unfortunately, nothing was changed.

The towns, people, and businesses along the Erie Canal are fantastic. There is no better cruising destination on Earth for the summer months, IMO, including Maine where I've lived for 21 years. You've really got to continue west past the Oswego Canal to get it though. To be honest, you're not really seeing the Erie Canal if you don't go further west than that.

I hope I can be back in 2 more years. I'd like to go up the Hudson and over to Lake Erie and return. I can't imagine a better way to spend the summer.

Oh...and for the 5 weeks of staying at docks and walls every night (there's no anchoring anywhere), our total dockage/electricity cost was $200. We had 50 amp power about half the time, 30 amp or a 120v plug about 30% of the time, and no power 20% of the time.

Have a different take on the canal than the OP.
Cruising the New York State Canal System
I've cruised from Duluth MN on Lake Superior to the Gulf and as far south as Antigua.
The NY Canals are my favourite.

>I have a hard time seeing how the NY Canal Corp can afford to keep that canal running.<

The canal is part of the NYS Thruway Authority and they are awash with ca$h from tolls.

The trip is slow and picturesque , I always suggest a wanabbe rent a steel canal boat as a start .

If the bride can handle the space (its actually great, 100+ years of refinement) in a steel narrow boat , it will be easier to go up to a 35 -40 ft boat.
Otherwise if looking at the boat show first , a 65 ft will be closest to the old dirt house she knows .

With zero navigation and weather hassles the Erie is a great starter spot , and Ez, lazy cruising ground for experienced folks.

djmarchand said:

All in all I am glad I did it once, but wouldn't do it again.

Click to expand...

David, thanks for posting this. As usual it brought up a discussion with varied opinions. I have not done the Erie, but may do a charter as FF suggests. Because of your post and this discussion, it gives me a target area (western half) to shoot for a cruising area.

I'm with Jeff, and I only did the "boring" half of the canal before I ran out of time. The scenery, the history, a different town every night, friendly lock masters, free dockage, no wakes, no heavy seas, a total change of pace.

We're not as famous as Jeff, but we did get our picture in one local paper; we just happened to be on the wall when a reporter and photographer came by doing a story on how transient boaters help the local economy.

I know some people rush to get through it, and I understand why they don't enjoy it. Some of the towns are economically struggling, and I imagine anyone who can't get along with working-class folks wouldn't like those. If it's bright lights and big-city night life you're after, you will be disappointed on this route. But it suited us just fine.

I don't know why it's not more popular, but in one way I'm glad. I intend to be back, and it won't bother me if I'm the only one in the lock, or tied up to the wall.

If any of you make it to the Seneca Canal and spend the night in the Seneca Lake State Park transient slip, please don't unplug the shore power from the adjacent Mainship.

Signed,

Northern Spy's Dad

Thanks for sharing your perspective, David. I've often wondered what it was like and your view helps paint the picture for me. I love the out-of-the-way, quiet waterways with little traffic and lots of charm. Sounds like some areas hit on all points and others don't. I imagine parts look very industrial, but I suppose that's just part of the canal's history. It was an important lifeline for many in the development of this country and because of that, I'd love to see it first-hand someday.

They're not all perfect peaches, but they all have some sweet spots. Thanks for posting!!

Jeffery, if your still following this thread of Davids, the wife & I have the Erie on our agenda, ultimately from Buffalo through to the Hudson if possible. I'm curious how you got along with such a "large boat" on the Erie. Our boats are similar in size and I'm concerned about the availability of suitably sized docks given there are no anchorages, was this an issue and did it necessitate having to bypass some stops? I'm also concerned with our windage and squeezing in among a raft of smaller boats. Did you find this to be a concern, ie: lock masters loaded appropriately? (we do not have thrusters) Any issues with regard to height? Thoughts & suggestions much appreciated.

There are lots of docks available for your size vessel and there are several places to anchor should you choose. quite a few photos of docking facilities here.

As you get west, air draft may be a more limiting factor.

I've done almost all of that part of New York via automobile, love the landscape and towns. Doing it, especially including the Finger Lakes on a "right sized" boat is a boating bucket list item for us.

FWIW I was on a friend's 45' CHB trawler for the trip and we were by far the biggest boat I saw tied up at the free docks. With the possible exception of the Canajoharie floating dock (and there was another 150' of wall around the corner from it) there was plenty of room at all free docks, even including the party town of Sylvan Beach, for a 50-60' trawler.

That is actually the problem I discussed. The Erie Canal boating traffic is way down. All of the lock keepers said that traffic dropped a few years ago when fuel prices went up. I don't necessarily think that was the biggest cause. The last recession was a bigger cause.

The lowest air draft we saw on the eastern stretch was 20'. We don't have a radar mast, so we got through easily with the VHF layed down.

David

Tugboats, Trawlers, Boats, Ships - Photos Lots of canal info here!

> I'm curious how you got along with such a "large boat" on the Erie.

Out arch folds although it takes 3-4 guys to do it. We took care of that at Shady Harbor on the Hudson. They built some basic blocking for it along with a zipperable shrinkwrap cover because there were areas that would get direct rain that typically don't get that wet. We had Rich's Marine in Buffalo help to put it back together. That part was all quite simple and inexpensive.

We got down to 14'8". The lowest bridge is about 15' although the lockmasters can give you another couple of inches.

We draw 6'. Depth was never an issue. ActiveCaptain had one shoaling hazard on the western side. I removed it when we went through because there was 11'. NYS confirmed that they had dredged it in spring 2013.

We were the largest boat we saw on the western side. It's what helped to bring out townspeople every night wondering how we did it.


> I'm concerned about the availability of suitably sized docks given
> there are no anchorages, was this an issue and did it necessitate
> having to bypass some stops?

Space was never a problem and I was never concerned about it. I think our longest day on the western side was about 15 miles so if something didn't work out, there was always time to go to the next town. Only in Macdeon did we have an issue. We had met a couple of people at the town prior who invited us to Macedon. They have no town dock but there's a few hundred feet of lock wall at their lock. We got past the lock to see a few people waiting to say hello but they didn't realize that there were only 2 tug rings about 200 feet apart with no other way to tie our boat. We tried to figure out a way but couldn't. We went 5 miles further to Fairport. The Macedon people beat us there and grabbed our lines. That was our biggest "problem" day.

I had a few emails with the Macedon town officials over the last year. They supposedly got permission from the NY Thruway to put in about 8 new cleats to handle 60' and smaller boats. It's a lovely town and perhaps now it's yet another destination there. There are dozens of additional towns and walls possible with just a little expansion like that.

Bottom line: there are a lot of walls and locks and docks where you can spend the night. We never even thought about it.


> I'm also concerned with our windage and squeezing in among a
> raft of smaller boats. Did you find this to be a concern, ie: lock
> masters loaded appropriately? (we do not have thrusters)

While on the Erie Canal, Karen and I kept saying, "Every day is a boating day on the Erie Canal." There was not one day where we were delayed for weather. If we planned to spend 4 days in Lyons, on day 5, we left. The weather was always fine. The entire canal is very protected. There were some misty days and some rain. But the winds were never an issue for any day at all.

We never were in a situation where we needed to squeeze past other boats. Think of a nice canal opening into a wider section for a town with long walls on both sides. That's a lot of the configuration of each town. It's all the easiest side-to docking possible. I don't think we were in a real slip on the canal at all except maybe at Ess-Kay Marina (who had a courtesy car to allow us to provision up).

Lock loading is always done in the order of arrival. The lockmaster might arrange which sides the different boats go on but that's about it. The locks are all the same and after a couple, you'll be quite familiar with them. We always ran them with my wife amidships using a single line. I stayed at the controls to help maneuver the boat if needed.

I've posted this before but here's the first 9 locks in time lapse heading west - so it's the easternmost part of the canal:
http://youtu.be/fU0LKx6ewYs?list=UU0dGHYx26ksSkRrDv4J7oxw

I'll also paste my favorite picture of our boat on the canal. It was just leaving Lyons. One of the townspeople were waiting at an overpass bridge and snapped the picture as we floated by. It perfectly captures the feeling of being on the Erie Canal. It also shows the configuration of our trawler with the arch down.

You've heard the term "different strokes for different folks"? I think that applies here. Although I have no plans to visit that part of the country, I have read many accounts of the trip and most folks seem to enjoy it. That doesn't mean you are somehow wrong if you didn't, it just means that some people like different things than other people.

As for the finances, I think Mule and BandB covered it pretty well above so there's no sens in rehashing it.

Jeffrey, many thanks for the detailed post! I'm certain it will be of great interest to others as well. I think I'm out of luck however. I'll have to check again but I believe I'm around 18 or 19ft arch down. I don't understand how yours could be so much lower. My decks are sunk approx 30" into the hull, ie: the decks are 30" lower than the gunwales thereby greatly reducing the overall height.

Given you were gutsy enough to shoe horn a 14'8 high boat under a 15ft bridge I take it there must be hardly any current preventing one to go under at a dead crawl.

Very disappointing as part of the purchasing decision of this boat was it's low profile versus length. My own fault for not checking height restrictions first.

B.P. Great link, thanks. Appears to be rather redundant for me now

If you really check your height, you might be surprised what you'll find. Looking at your tiny avatar photo, your bow is 30 pixels off the water. I guessed that the bimini can be removed along with most of the chocks for the dinghy and the electronics arch. That would make the flybridge brow about the highest point. That's about 44 pixels off the water.

Again, this is pretty rough - you'd need to make the real calculations with something better than a small picture. But if your bow is 10 feet off the water (which sounds too high to me looking at it) then your brow is at 44 * 10 / 30 = 14.6 feet. Every foot your bow is lower to the water gives you 1.33 feet more height to keep the chocks and arch up or laid down. Ultimately, stick a long pole out the side of your boat at its highest point and measure that to the water. Then you'll know.

There is no perceived current on the canal. There are lists of every bridge on the canal so you know when you're coming up to a low one (there's a website that lists them all too - just sayin').

We added some plastic floppy pieces to a boathook at the exact height + 6" of our highest point when the boathook was placed on our bow. When we approached a very low bridge, we'd be completely stopped at the bow. My wife would hold the boathook at the bow as we slowly inched under the bridge. If the plastic on the boathook didn't touch, nothing would touch on the boat. There is only one very low 15' bridge and a couple at 15.5'. The rest weren't even close to being issues. I think the water level was 4-6" lower for us giving us even more space when we went through it all.

And again, if you got really stuck, the lockmasters can lower the water level a few inches over a day.

Oh...one more thing. Don't forget that your boat will sit lower in fresh water than salt water if you're used to being in salt water. We got an extra 1/2" from that because we measured in salt water. We also kept full of fuel and water to give us less height.

We did the Erie Canal this spring and loved it. We also wondered how long the state of NY could keep it going with the few boats we saw. Granted it was early in the season. Not every port was a home run but all in all we considered it on par with the Canadian canals which we loved as well. The price was certainly right. What we didn't pay in dockage we tried to use in the towns for dinner and supplies. We also loved our side trip to Lake Seneca and Watkins Glen. Here is our blog if you're interested: Travel Blog: The Great Meander on the Little Loop (part 2)

Jeffery S really hit on what a canal cruise is about and that is stopping in these towns and meeting people, they all have a great memory of the history of the area in it's day, it is like walking back in time, something you can't get at Disney World. I agree the cost of operating the system is more then taken in, thankfully they are not looking to make a profit, also found all the lock tenders exceptionally nice.
If you have done the Erie of Champlain canals you really need to put it on your MUST to do list.

I'm also concerned with our windage and squeezing in among a
> raft of smaller boats. Did you find this to be a concern, ie: lock
> masters loaded appropriately? (we do not have thrusters)


The only place that ever really gets a crowd , so the boats have to be carefully packed in is in Canada with their historic tiny locks.

The Lock Master is in charge , and usually clears the biggest boat to come into HIS lock first.

We were at 50 ft usually the biggest boat and much to the delight of the gaggle of smaller cruisers preferred to tie to the LEFT side of the lock.

The US locks are huge in comparison , so never a problem.

If you will be going on to do the Loop, having a big 12-16 inch midship cleat will allow a single point tie.

Almost no work or effort at all.