Power setting the anchor

I use idle reverse on one engine for about 10 sec observing 2 static points abeam to ensure the anchor is set. Then I repeat the procedure with the other engine. Engines are Cummins 330 hp each. Idle reverse only. Crossing my fingers, I've never dragged.

I let my 45# CQR set on its own in the current and not dragging. Before leaving the boat or going to bed, I test it with idle in reverse. So far no dragging in reversing tides. Then again I'm still a newbie with the CQR.

I have seen the "anchor" on the bow of Delfin... I think that due to its weight is is more of a mobile mooring anchor... when they weigh that much it sinks into the sea bed on its own. Not a wonder that Carl can let is "settle" on its own.

We should all be so lucky!
HOLLYWOOD

Again, that's why I only use idle for a short moment. With enough scope and gentle backing down, the chain should still be on the bottom and hook will get an initial bite. If there is no wind or current, I am talking about 1 knot. Just a bump or two.

One thing to remember...just because an anchor "grabs" by no means does that mean it is set unless you check visually.

The tip could have hooked something such as a rock, grass clump, mussel patch, shopping cart, etc...etc...

The only way you know it will hold to the conditions that might arise is to destructively test that set...whether immediately or after letting the anchor "settle" which I think is silly unless you are over deep silt or extraordinarily soft mud...which I wouldn't knowingly anchor in anyhow.

That's why unless I'm in water that I can dive on my anchor....I don't trust most anchoring situations to save my boat. Sure I buy and do what is the norm for anchors and techniques...and I feel secure when I do it...but I also don't anchor or stay at anchor if I'm expecting more than mild conditions...and I don't think the average local area thunderstorm even in FLA is a threat unless I'm going to be off the boat.

People have made fun of me and my anchoring philosophy here...I really don't care because my boat is the only roof over my head that I have and that's pretty important to me....basically the same as betting anyone a million bucks that their anchor will hold though anything short of a Cat III cane and above.

What works for you is great till it doesn't...then what?

psneeld said:

What works for you is great till it doesn't...then what?

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After 35 years and 40,000 miles when it stops working I'll let you know.

If weather conditions warrant, by all means check the set. If you think the best time to do that is to power in reverse as soon as the hook hits bottom have at it. However, you can do a little experiment to see whether it is a good practice or not. Anchor 30 times powering down immediately. Count how many times the anchor drags. Now anchor 30 times and go have a beer and take a nap before powering down and compare. My guess - you won't drag with a decent anchor and appropriate scope if you give the anchor a bit of time to do its job.

Yes Delfin,
I read about slow setting anchors on an anchor test and several other places. Haven't ever done that the way Delfin describes but I do take my time setting the anchor, watching the rode and enjoying the view from the bow. And if you want to know ... no I get it over with in the wind and rain.

And I think if one got a fast set when wind or current reversed the anchor should reset or set again w almost bullet proof dependability. However if you had an iffy first set ....

Peter if you've not welded the CQR hinge together how would you know if the hinge was good or bad. I'd like to try that. Got no CQR though.

Delfin said:

After 35 years and 40,000 miles when it stops working I'll let you know.

If weather conditions warrant, by all means check the set. If you think the best time to do that is to power in reverse as soon as the hook hits bottom have at it. However, you can do a little experiment to see whether it is a good practice or not. Anchor 30 times powering down immediately. Count how many times the anchor drags. Now anchor 30 times and go have a beer and take a nap before powering down and compare. My guess - you won't drag with a decent anchor and appropriate scope if you give the anchor a bit of time to do its job.

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I'll agree that the anchor needs time to align and start it's dig...and your point about setting it later isn't a bad one if convenient...

I believe that motion and tension on the anchor rode is what sets an anchor...not just weight...so there has to be something keeping a bit more tension on an all chain setup if the boat is just being held by chain and no tension is getting back to the anchor.

I don't think in most bottoms I would anchor in...just time letting the anchor laying on the bottom does anything without the rode being involved.

Delfin said:

... Anchor 30 times powering down immediately. Count how many times the anchor drags. Now anchor 30 times and go have a beer and take a nap before powering down and compare....

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Nigel Calder recommends making a cup of tea before a final set check. A beer and a nap, why not? Try some "horizontal folk dancing"? Make anchoring fun, not a chore.

Again...it's more art than science...a visual is the best and why the saying "it's better in the Bahamas" rings true to many a cruiser.

What works for you is what you stick with...but like I posted before...only till it doesn't.

That point is that sometimes we all can learn a trick or two more. Locals often are FOS and sometimes they give up a jewel. The trick is to be able to decipher the FOS lines and focus on the jewel...it can be written also...even right here by our very own.

BruceK said:

Nigel Calder recommends making a cup of tea before a final set check. A beer and a nap, why not? Try some "horizontal folk dancing"? Make anchoring fun, not a chore.

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Sounds both civilized and gentlemanly. In other words, completely consistent with my approach to pleasure boating.

Thank you to Delphin for showing me a different way to skin a cat. Honorable mention goes to Bruce for bringing the idea full circle in my mind. Now off to Google horizontal folk dancing.

I don't think my fishing buddies will appreciate the horizontal folk dancing OR the tea break. Maybe we'll stick to beer and crumpets.

FlyWright said:

... Maybe we'll stick to beer and crumpets.

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Gee. You've handed me beer but never crumpets. Maybe you could serve some Saturday morning, with tea?

markpierce said:

Gee. You've handed me beer but never crumpets. Maybe you could serve some Saturday morning, with tea?

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I'll be docked, not anchored. But if the dock starts to drag , I'll report it here first!!

CPseudonym said:

Now off to Google horizontal folk dancing.

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Surprise, Google covers it nicely. Now I`ve lowered the tone of the discussion, watch for new Google adverts .

BruceK said:

Surprise, Google covers it nicely. Now I`ve lowered the tone of the discussion, watch for new Google adverts .

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No big deal but my wife said she may need a new iPad now that I Googled that phrase Bruce

High Wire said:

I let my 45# CQR set on its own in the current and not dragging. Before leaving the boat or going to bed, I test it with idle in reverse. So far no dragging in reversing tides. Then again I'm still a newbie with the CQR.

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Perhaps a newbie but you are way ahead of the folks I see with CQRs trying to set them with the motor. Gives me something to watch and them something to do although that something is rarely a well set hook. Seems to me you're doing it exactly right which is why you don't have much experience with dragging.
Next time you're around professionally skippered boats count the number that back down on their anchor. I doubt you'll see many, if any.

manyboats said:

Peter if you've not welded the CQR hinge together how would you know if the hinge was good or bad. I'd like to try that. Got no CQR though.

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Eric, only reason I say it is because of personal experience of lots of dragging of a CQR, especially at one notorious anchorage over here with a lot of weed. Plus the fact that the Delta is basically a CQR with no hinged shank, and sets much better, and the visual evidence of it bouncing over the bottom in the DVD Rex did I sent you. Have another look at it when you have the time.

Delfin, can I explore this. I understand what you say about not attempting to set the anchor with reverse power once it takes, but how about getting the boat moving gently aft while paying out? Or would you only suggest that absent tide or breeze. My concern is a great lump of chain falling on top of the anchor(incidentally a Super Sarca). I`ve seen many commercial charter boats on Sydney Harbor back down while paying out, I`d say it was the norm here, for private owners too, with/without tide/breeze. Thoughts?

Bruce, I think it is definitely a good idea to gently move back to lay out the rode, rather than just dumping it on the anchor, although the Super Sarca is less likely to have the fluke fouled by that than most. However, sometimes even the wind &/or current is not enough to achieve this lay-out. I suspect Delfin would also agree with that.

Actually, one trick I have found works quite well for me and my S-Sarca, is to do what they call the yachtsman's drop. I sneak around until I find a suitable space to park her, then if possible approach slowly from up-wind, slip her into idle/neutral when I reach about where I want the anchor to be, then start letting out chain, as I swing her hard over one way or the other, then let out about 3 times the depth as we go, then stop the winch, and the anchor takes up nicely but quite gently, and the boat swings round gently to end up pointing in the same direction as the others. I let it settle a bit longer, then put out what extra I might estimate I need, and that's it. Works for me...

Peter B said:

Bruce, I think it is definitely a good idea to gently move back to lay out the rode...

Actually, one trick I have found works quite well for me and my S-Sarca, is to do what they call the yachtsman's drop... if possible approach slowly from up-wind, slip her into idle/neutral when I reach about where I want the anchor to be, then start letting out chain, as I swing her hard over one way or the other, then let out about 3 times the depth as we go, then stop the winch, and the anchor takes up nicely but quite gently, and the boat swings round gently to end up pointing in the same direction as the others..

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Thanks Pete, makes sense. I think that`s a modified yachtsmans/sailboaters drop. We would sail down wind, let the sails flap, chuck out the anchor which grabbed, yanking the boat head to wind, sometimes quite sharply. Best not try that on a trawler.

BruceK said:

Thanks Pete, makes sense. I think that`s a modified yachtsmans/sailboaters drop. We would sail down wind, let the sails flap, chuck out the anchor which grabbed, yanking the boat head to wind, sometimes quite sharply. Best not try that on a trawler.

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Yes, same concept exactly, but you are not driven by wind to any extent, (wouldn't do it that way if the wind was up from astern, obviously), but at slow drift in idle neutral with very little way on, it works a treat, and takes care of the laying out of the rode from the anchor in a nice straight line automatically.

BruceK said:

Delfin, can I explore this. I understand what you say about not attempting to set the anchor with reverse power once it takes, but how about getting the boat moving gently aft while paying out? Or would you only suggest that absent tide or breeze. My concern is a great lump of chain falling on top of the anchor(incidentally a Super Sarca). I`ve seen many commercial charter boats on Sydney Harbor back down while paying out, I`d say it was the norm here, for private owners too, with/without tide/breeze. Thoughts?

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We do it just as you suggest, and I think that is the common practice.

If we're in 40' of water, I'll lay out 50' or so then idle reverse for 5 to 10 seconds while I lay out the balance of the rode for whatever scope seems right to avoid the lump 'o chain issue. If I have any concerns about weather or bottom conditions I'll go about my business for an hour or two, then idle reverse to ensure a decent set, then play put more rode for nasty forecasts or just attach the snub line. What I don't do is plow the seabed in reverse since IMO it is counter productive. The CQR is particularly sensitive to just scooting along the bottom if you get too frisky with reverse before it has a chance to start to bite. The reason people cruised the world using 35# CQRs is because they learned how to set them, frequently with no power at all since they didn't have power. Maybe it happened but I don't ever remember the Pardeys describing dragging at anchor in their engineless circumnavigations.

Delfin said:

Next time you're around professionally skippered boats count the number that back down on their anchor. I doubt you'll see many, if any.

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I do. And I'd say most of the other professional captains I know will back down at least a bit to be sure their hook is set after letting it first settle and set.

Now when I say back down I don't mean giving the engines full throttle in reverse or anything. But at least putting one or both engines in reverse at idle to make sure the anchor is truly set and set well.

Here is a post from another highly experienced sailor (maybe not a "professional" but probably as good as or better than anchoring than most pros I work with)

"Not a very good photo but this patch of weed is waiting only 7-8 m from the Delta.

Will it dig in and hold before reaching this? It has dragged 7m so far.

The Delta is struggling in the med- soft sand. It does not have much hope in this medium weed. Then it has only got a few meters of sand before almost continuous medium weed, like this, with an increasing depth and decreasing scope.

Do you feel lucky punk

Notice how the chain provides some grip in weed. Weed like this can give the illusion that the anchor is holding, but as the wind increases the catenary disappears and the chain lifts off the bottom. The grip of the chain in the weed is lost, and the anchors holding becomes the only factor restraining the boat.

Testing the anchor at full reverse will eliminate most of this catenary and simulate the response to medium strength winds, showing if the anchor itself is holding."


The below pic goes with the above quoted post in blue....

Anchoring demands more than just one technique in my book...sometimes a combo of them turn out just like someone else's single step procedure...but without a lot of details for a specific situation...to say anchoring one way or another is the "best" way or "only" way...well we all know what that says in general.

I do it backwards I drive in from the direction I expect to hang and drop the hook going forward at about a knot and a half, snubbing the line off on the Sampson post to set the hook. I can immediately tell if I got a good set as the boat pivots around the line and comes to rest. I can see the rode tighten up and if the hook moves before I tie down. The forward motion makes it easy to set the scope before I wrap off. 25' of chain, 600' of 5/8"nylon and a 15K Rocna. I wouldn't try that with chain...

Capt.Bill11 said:

I do. And I'd say most of the other professional captains I know will back down at least a bit to be sure their hook is set after letting it first settle and set.

Now when I say back down I don't mean giving the engines full throttle in reverse or anything. But at least putting one or both engines in reverse at idle to make sure the anchor is truly set and set well.

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I think the question was whether those who get paid to run other peoples boats drop the hook then immediately power down on it as some have suggested rather than letting it settle, as you noted. Seen many do that?

I guess the real question is "what is letting it settle" compared to "letting it set"....

Can't speak for everyone but I'm pretty sure Capt.Bill11 as well as I do get paid to run other peoples boats...both commercial and pleasure in my case.

psneeld said:

I guess the real question is "what is letting it settle" compared to "letting it set"....

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I dunno, but perhaps it means this

Delfin said:

Now anchor 30 times and go have a beer and take a nap before powering down

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Rather than this

psneeld said:

One thing to remember...just because an anchor "grabs" by no means does that mean it is set unless you check visually.

The tip could have hooked something such as a rock, grass clump, mussel patch, shopping cart, etc...etc...

The only way you know it will hold to the conditions that might arise is to destructively test that set...whether immediately or after letting the anchor "settle" which I think is silly unless you are over deep silt or extraordinarily soft mud...which I wouldn't knowingly anchor in anyhow.

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Although I don't assume you do all your cruising in swimming pools as suggested by CaptBill in post #6, I think your belief that no anchor can be trusted until visually inspected following immediate replication of the worst conditions possible (to avoid being silly, don't you know) isn't well supported by most people's experience or common practice among professional mariners. But to each his own.....

Hi All,

For what it is worth over twenty two years of anchor design ,testing and manufacturing not mention 30 years of boating.

My answer is based on observation, weed over mud --soft, if you drop your anchor and then power down to set, in many cases you will rip out a clod of weed and mud, this weed will continue to ball up resulting in a non set, or a set that wont lock up but gives you enough confidence to trust it—during the night only then if you break out you will know whether or not you have made the right decision, yes sometimes you can be lucky powering down slicing through the weed resulting in a good lock up.

Based on the best average I have observed take it easy, drop your anchor whilst backing down, if you know it is weed and mud apply very light throttle and see how you go.

If you Know it is going to blow the milk out of your coffee during the night then don’t anchor in these areas, avoid them if possible or keep anchor watch.

Sandy surface by all means back down if you want to lock up, there is no need from what I have observed to over do this, but it will ensure you do not have something snagged on the toe.

Regards Rex