Smell in fresh water system

I flushed my fresh water system in May, per the headmistress' instructions, but I'm getting the smell back again. It helps if I let the water run for 10-20 seconds first, but I'm wondering: do I need to replace the water lines? They are the boat's age, 25 years old. If so, what type of water lines would be recommended? The ones in the boat are clear PVC.

You didn't say what kind of smell, antifreeze or mildew, but a cap or two of Clorox in the tank, run up water to faucets and let sit for a day or so, then good flush, smell should be gone.

Also not sure where you are getting your water, if well water that might not be helping, typically city water has some additional additives to keep it from turning.

dach side said:

I flushed my fresh water system in May, per the headmistress' instructions, but I'm getting the smell back again. It helps if I let the water run for 10-20 seconds first, but I'm wondering: do I need to replace the water lines? They are the boat's age, 25 years old. If so, what type of water lines would be recommended? The ones in the boat are clear PVC.

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You may need to flush the system again, but I'd at least guess first that you probably don't need to replace lines.

This odor from shore water? Is shore water from city service, or a well?

Or from water in fresh water tanks? How often do you cycle water through the freshwater tanks?

Or from both shore and tanks?

Hot water only? Or cold? Or both?

Sulfer smell? Or moldy? Or....?

-Chris

Flush the entire system again and consider adding a charcoal filter to your system.

What are your water tanks made out of?

My Father puts a few teaspoons of bleach into his tanks. He also uses bottled water to drink. The bleach will keep anything from growing in the tank, lines etc.... See this: http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/april/TheCareAndFeedingOfYourBoatsWaterSystems.asp

Clear PVC lines? What year is your boat and are you sure they haven't been replaced by a previous owner?

...typically city water has some additional additives to keep it from turning.

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I'm not sure turning is the right term. If you are getting your water from a city/municipal water source, it is treated with chlorine but only to protect the water from recontamination as it travels throughout the distribution system. The residual chlorine will gas off within 7-10 days in your water tanks.

Filling tanks from dock water that has ben sitting for too long helps get the bugs started.

Some bleach in the tank then run all spigots until you smell bleach. let it sit for a few hours then flush everything several times and add a little baking soda to last fill up.
As Bill said a carbon filter on the drinking water spigot is a good idea.

Our marina is on a well. We use a serious sediment filter and also a carbon filter every time we fill the tank. And then we cycle through the tank often.

I usually use the sediment filter when we (much less often) hook up to shorewater somewhere, too. The carbon filter -- the .5 micron one we use and the way we use it -- cuts flow too much to use it with dockside water.

-Chris

Take a look at Puriclean made by Clean Tabs in England. They say it not only kills the bacteria in the water like chlorine, but it also removes the dead biofilm stuck to the tank walls and hoses.
http://www.cleantabs.co.uk/puriclean.htm

ranger42c said:

Our marina is on a well. We use a serious sediment filter and also a carbon filter every time we fill the tank. And then we cycle through the tank often.

I usually use the sediment filter when we (much less often) hook up to shorewater somewhere, too. The carbon filter -- the .5 micron one we use and the way we use it -- cuts flow too much to use it with dockside water.

-Chris

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.5 a micron is way to fine for anything other than say a filter on the fresh water flush line for a water maker. Try using a 25 micron carbon filter. That way you should be able to use it on you tank fill hose no problem.

Ranger 42c: from water tanks only(no shore hookup), hoy or cold. Sort of sulfur smell. Capt.bill11: poly water tanks, 75 gal. Each. Boat is 25 years old, not sure if lines are OEM. By clear PVC, I mean clear with red/blue tracers. I think I'll redo it with the bleach treatment, then add a filter. We get water from a town well, go through a tank in about 10 days.

dach side said:

Ranger 42c: from water tanks only(no shore hookup), hoy or cold. Sort of sulfur smell. Capt.bill11: poly water tanks, 75 gal. Each. Boat is 25 years old, not sure if lines are OEM. By clear PVC, I mean clear with red/blue tracers. I think I'll redo it with the bleach treatment, then add a filter. We get water from a town well, go through a tank in about 10 days.

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You're using well water..... that's your problem. You wouldn't be having this issue with treated city water. Try using bleach and stick to drinking bottled water, which I am sure you're already doing. Well water is horrible tasting.

We were consistently getting smells from our water, especially the hot water. I then started running all the fill water through a household charcoal filter, and that completely resolved the problem. The filter is now permanently installed in the Laz and plumbed to the tank. To fill up, I first let the water run through the hose and overboard for a while to flush out the dock lines and the hose. Then I connect the hose to the filter inlet and fill the tanks. So far it has worked great. Just remember that charcoal filters are only good for about 6 months after their first use, so replace them regularly.

Don't assume that your "town well" water is not "treated" If there are over 15 service connections on the town well it falls under the same guidelines as any other permitted water system. Both surface water and well water is subject to "taste and odor" problems often as a result of iron and /or manganese (soluble) naturally occurring. Typically you would find very small red or black particles in locations where the water is oxidized, such as the back tank of a toilet, the washing machine, etc.. Those type of fixtures are not always found on boats. If you can look into the bottom of your tank you may find some of these particles or shake a glass full of water and see if the particles appear. As noted they are "water soluble" but fall out of the water when oxidize (exposed to air) or if you have an ice maker you should find them in the ice. They cannot be filtered out of the water until oxidized. Like sugar in water, you can filter it all day long but the water will still be sweet. A charcoal filter will help with the smell. Chlorine is an oxidizer and will eliminate the problem for a short period of time by allowing the iron and/or manganese to be released.

Back East here along the coast most towns are on well water and as Larry M pointed out it's treated to government standards that should be similar to many locations.

Our well water tastes as good as any water I've ever drank out of the tap as it's all about the aquifer it comes from.

For a boats tank and plumbing system...it may take a shock treatment or two with chlorine...then a couple tankfulls to get rid of the chlorine...but after that if you still have a problem, it's tank scrubbing and line replacement time.

If you don't turn your tank water over quickly...a permanent filtering and charcoal (plus if necessary) pretreatment may be in order. If all that is necessary...your city water is pretty bad or at least the point you receive it from.

If going to be there a long time, either a fancy under sink reverse osmosis sytem might be in order (no personal experience just what I have heard) or a complete water making system....but wow...you would be one of the few that ever needed to go that far in my recollection.

Capt.Bill11 said:

.5 a micron is way to fine for anything other than say a filter on the fresh water flush line for a water maker. Try using a 25 micron carbon filter. That way you should be able to use it on you tank fill hose no problem.

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Nah, it's not really a problem for tank filling. Takes longer, no big deal. We use a dual-gradient 25 micron/1 micron sediment pre-filter ahead of the .5 micron carbon block.

When we hook up to shore water, we still use the 25/1 filter, but that's where the .5 micron charcoal block hampers flow too much.

I could install the charcoal filter inline at the galley sink, but that'd be more work. And then we might want one at the sink in the head. Even more work. Easier just using it at the tank fill.

-Chris

If you filter your water coming into your boat, watch the flow rate. For carbon filtration to be effective, the water has to have adequate contact time with the carbon. Most carbon filters of the 2.5" x 10" size, are rated for 1-2 gpm. The water coming out of your hose, full on, is usually around 6-10 gallons per minute.

dach side said:

Ranger 42c: from water tanks only(no shore hookup), hoy or cold. Sort of sulfur smell. Capt.bill11: poly water tanks, 75 gal. Each. Boat is 25 years old, not sure if lines are OEM. By clear PVC, I mean clear with red/blue tracers. I think I'll redo it with the bleach treatment, then add a filter. We get water from a town well, go through a tank in about 10 days.

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Your thought about re-flushing (and all the other posts on that) are likely on the mark. Won't hurt, in any case, and if it makes a change you'll at least know what's what.

Well water can often taste great... so I wouldn't assume odor in this case is an insurmountable issue.

FWIW, I've read some water heaters have a zinc anode and/or can contribute to sulfur smell. Our WH manual says what to do about that, although we've not had a problem with it. You might check yours, in any case... although if you have odor with both hot and cold water, it's maybe a non-player.

-Chris

Adelaide said:

You're using well water..... that's your problem. You wouldn't be having this issue with treated city water. Try using bleach and stick to drinking bottled water, which I am sure you're already doing. Well water is horrible tasting.

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Throughout my life, we've been on well water much more often than on city water. In many cases, the well water tasted better. I don't think there's anything magic about treated city water.

In boats -- in reasonably civilized locations -- seems to be a body of anecdotal info that suggests the condition of the system -- tanks, lines, fill hoses, etc. and also the fill process/technique -- has much more to do with drinkable water quality than does the source.

-Chris

Suggest you run the dock water for several minutes before filling tanks. We are at the end of a long dock water line and water is often very warm and rusty unless run for while. Also before you do anything more on the boat, you might try tasting the dock line water direct from the dock faucet, and also keeping a sample in a clean gallon jug for tasting a few days later. Clear PVC lines do have the disadvantage of allowing mold growth where the tubing is exposed to light. PEX avoids this problem.

I hesitated in saying chlorine given I don't know for sure what every municipality is using and also knowing this crowd how quickly I'm corrected, but yes your post is exactly what I meant.

Larry M said:

I'm not sure turning is the right term. If you are getting your water from a city/municipal water source, it is treated with chlorine but only to protect the water from recontamination as it travels throughout the distribution system. The residual chlorine will gas off within 7-10 days in your water tanks.

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If the water lines are 25 years old and clear PVC then I would seriously suggest replacing them. Use the water tubing from the marine store or PEX from the home center or plumbing supply store. Clear tubing allows light and encourages growth.

I've never understood the practice some folks have of not drinking from the boat's water system. There's no reason the water from your boat's potable water system cannot be just as good as the water in your home.

Use a clean drinking water rated hose to fill the tanks and hide it away so others can't use it to flush their holding tanks or drop it in the water. Let the water run for a few minutes to flush out the pipes and hose before filling your tanks. Make sure the water you put in the tanks is suitable for drinking in the first place. You can always add a tablespoon of unscented household bleach for every 20 or 30 gallons of water, especially if the water has not been treated by the city or water company.

ranger42c said:

Throughout my life, we've been on well water much more often than on city water. In many cases, the well water tasted better. I don't think there's anything magic about treated city water.

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Speaking of city water... we are currently hooked up to shore water at a destination marina. Their city water supply tastes heavily of chlorine.

Yuck!

Bearable after filtering through a Pur pitcher, otherwise we'd probably disconnect and use our own supply from the freshwater tanks.

-Chris

Chlorine is still the primary disinfecting agent used by most water systems, because you can easily test the residual anywhere in the distribution system. 2 parts per million (2 miligrams per liter) should be maintained throughout the system. If there is a chlorine residual there in no bacteria in the lines. 2ppm will not register on a pool test strip nor create any bad odor or taste.
I have not done the math on the tablespoon per 30 gallons as mentioned above but that sounds right. Remember that your household bleach is only about 7-9 % sodium hypochlorite and that chlorine can be corrosive if you overdose it be sure to flush the system.
I agree that there should be no reason NOT to use a boat's internal water system. Municipal systems employ steel tanks, ductile iron pipes, and some still have asbestos pipe in their systems.

I didn't do any math either because unless your tanks are empty you won't know how much water you are adding. It's just a guess.

I grew up on city water but lived for 23 years on well water so I got used to it. When I went back on city water the chlorine smell bothered me for a week or two, then I got used to it and don't notice it anymore.

I had a smaller, trailerable boat then and routinely added chlorine when I added well water.

City water is treated and tested and is safe. You never know with water from a private, untested well. My well water was heavily acidic and ate through the pipes and tanks in my home. It also had a lot of sediment.

Many cities employ wells and draw from the same aquifers that the more rural homes use.

Whether the municipalities or the residence makes the water potable....it's all about legislation for that area and money/effort spent to make it better than just potable.

The same can be said for what you put into your boat tanks and what you do to it before it leaves the tap.

An aside: I'm guessing chlorine in the freshwater supply may also have an effect on enzyme or aerobic bacteria holding tank treatments, when heads are flushed with that fresh water.

-Chris

We always run dock water through a pleated depth type filter to remove sediment before putting it into our tanks. Just a simple 10 inch plastic housing attached to the end of the hose. If you think the problem might be from the incoming water you could substitute a similar filter that also includes carbon to remove taste elements. Hard to see how your on board system could still be causing the problem if you have adequately sanitized it with bleach.

Just another thought...... I notice that you keep your boat in RI. Presumably you winterize with antifreeze. If you did this it can very hard to completely elinimate the residual taste/smell of the antifreeze. We never put antifreeze in our water heater tank or freshwater storage tanks, because then it is almost impossible to eliminate the residual smell. We always bypass the water heater and just drain that and the storage tanks. If it is antifreeze, then all you can do is keep flushing.

Chris: Very good point on the potential effects of chlorinated water on aerobic digesters (holding tanks). The recommended minimum concentration of chlorine for drinking water is 2 parts per million. When in the pipe line chlorine may change its chemical properties while doing its bacteria killing. When exposed to air it will quickly turn to a gas (hence the smell) and drastically reduce any ability to further kill the bacteria working in your tanks. As defined an "aerobic" bacteria holding tank should have air infusion keeping the bacteria alive and continuing to "gas out" the chlorine. At 2 ppm in the line and with the chlorine quickly dissipating upon hitting air at flush along with the air supply to the holding tank it should not interfere with a strong bacterial growth within the tank. At greater strength it will have a longer "contact time" and limit the action and growth of necessary bacteria in the tank.

Back to the original thread- Taste and odor problems are most likely due to mangenese and/or iron also gassing out when exposed to air.

Putting anti-freeze in a hot water heater causes terrible odors and they are hard to get rid of. I'm not saying you did that...
Bill