March pump replacement alternatives

God knows I tried. The best I could do was deal with a factory Rep named Bob Esterbrook. E mails flew until it dawned on me he either had NO influence with the company or was lying. Had to be one or the other. If I had someone working for me and he makes a recommendation that just a replacement motor, costing me less than $150, in the name of customer service I would ship it. The e mail address got me to Bob, never could get to the company. After this stringing me on for months I would have rather they just told me to kiss their Rosie red. Like I said, an unethical company, total disregard for their customers, contempt even.
I am retired, own no stock in any competing company. Have no ties or financial upside in bad mouthing March except for the aggravation they have caused. I have all the e mails and I can post if there is any doubt.

My experience on 2 different boats with March pumps is the pumps were mounted in the bilge below the waterline. This type pump circulates water and doesn't pump it like a displacement pump. They will not prime themselves or pump against much head pressure, and I'am sure that they won't run dry very long without damage. If mounted above the waterline when the pump is shut off the water in the hose from the strainer to the pump would drain down to the water level leaving a air gap and this style pump will not move air. In the spring I sometimes have to push all the air out of the lines after winterizing by using a hose to push water thru the discharge thruhull.

I have never had any luck by reverse flowing water from a through hull discharge fitting. I usually simply losen the clamp from one of my 2 AC fresh water feeds and crack it enough so water starts spiting a steady stream then I push the hose back on the pump and tighten the clamps. By now the water is flowing fine through both discharge fittings. It's a mater of breaking the air lock once I do that I'm good for the rest of the season baring no haul outs.
Bill

In all my cases strainer, pump both below the waterline and with seacock open water flows into the strainer. I also, just for good measure use nozzle and water hose to back flush from discharge after I am in the system. Still the issue, aside from an inordinate amount of trouble from March Pumps is the contempt they show toward their customers: IE Me. I was nice until the last e mail, months into the correspondence. Just on this string look at the venom I have for these guys. I am not a hater, but screw me once, Ok, normally I can control it after that. The situations I was put into limited my choices, so now, after this week I want to let people know my story so folks will think twice before spending their money with March.

Bill I close all my thru hulls before a haul out, saves problems on the relaunch. Mule I understand your feelings and would probably feel the same long before I got to the 5th pump. Someone posted the March company info if I was you I'ld contact them directly, good luck.

Even closing my thru hulls doesn't always ensure I will keep the pump primed. They as in "AC pumps" are strange animals since they push or circulate water and really don't draw water or to use a better example self prime. My dual AC set up with the single March pump was the original Mainship factory installation. The pump is below the water line but above the thru hull entry point.
I always hated squeezing into the ER to prime the AC pump. If I kept the boat I was going to install a diverter valve that would have simply opened up one of the 2 output lines at the pump so I could avoid pulling one of the hoses and waiting until I got a steady stream of water flowing.
Bill

Despite the problems Larry and Mule have had, March is the most reliable pump for small air conditioners on the market. That's why they are standard equipment on most new air conditioner systems.

I am disappointed in the customer service Mule has gotten from March.
Mule, you should try going directly to March with your problem.

I would like to know exactly which model of March pump is failing for you guys.

They did have a batch of them that would over heat fifteen or twenty years ago, but I haven't seen that happen in a very long time.

For larger systems you can't beat the Oberdorfer 104M or 109M pumps.

I would like to know exactly which model of March pump is failing for you guys.

They did have a batch of them that would over heat fifteen or twenty years ago, but I haven't seen that happen in a very long time.

Both the March and Oberdorfer are sensitive to air lock. They should be mounted below the waterline with the hose running continuously up hill from the seacock to the pump intake. A way to burp the system can be useful.

The Oberdorfer fails in an interesting way. If the intake is restricted, the impeller cavitates and vacuum bubbles form and collapse on the pump housing. These bubbles will actually eat craters in the bronze and in extreme cases eat through the housing. When I first saw it I thought it was electrolysis but the cavities formed are different and a factory rep told me what was happening.

I tried, read back, I got their factory rep, to no avail over months and multiple e mails. This company does not GAS because they have almost a cornered market.

Mule said:

I tried, read back, I got their factory rep, to no avail over months and multiple e mails. This company does not GAS because they have almost a cornered market.

Click to expand...

Not really along the same lines are the Cal pumps. I had problems with the Cal AC pumps. That's why I switched to March AC pumps.....?
Bill

Have you tried contacting any of these people:
Meet The March Pump Manufacturing Team | March Pumps

You said you you had a hard time finding information about the company. But it seems to me with a couple clicks you find out pretty much anything you want about March from March.

Did you ever call them directly?

I wrote the e mail address, got a factory rep I named, I have all the e mails...just to remove doubt I will post..

This is first
Hello Hobart, We need more information before we can recommend a solution. Why did the pump stop? Did you remove the pump and examine it? Did the motor not run? Was the pump or internal parts broken? Answers to these questions will greatly aid in our diagnosis.

Thanks,
Bob Estabrook

Robert Estabrook
District 7 Regional Sales Manager
March Manufacturing, Inc.

Phone: 313-372-3000
Toll Free: 877-421-4773
Fax: 313-371-4434
Cell: 224-645-8650
Email: bestabrook@marchpump.com
Chemical Magnetic Drive Pumps from March Pump


Name : Hobart Huffines
Email : hobart1@swbell.net
Phone : 817-360-5561
Fax :
Company :
Zip : 32043
Model : lc-3cpmd
Details : serial number= uu092637

I guess you would have to classify me as a disappointed customer. I have been using a March pump behind a large Grotto strainer since the early spring of 2010 for my Mermaid 16,500 btu AC. I am now on my 3rd pump. No large demand or continual 24 hr service and I am finding I am spending $150. a year JUST to pump water to my air conditioner. That seems more than excessive. I never flinch on spending on the boat but I get a bit testy when I do not get my money's worth and I cannot justify why this is happening. The one I just replaced I only got one season out of because the boat was laid up from May to Febuary for a refit. Please get back to me with some explaination. I am keeping the last one around for a while to send to you if you wish. I will gladly work with you in any reengineering of my flow system but from what others have told me and what I have read I am dead on with sizing of the system and straining. Help...
Hobart Huffines

Hey Bob, been awhile. Wondering how my case is coming along...Thanks..Hobart

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 21, 2013, at 10:37 AM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

Maybe you missed this reply or have been on vacation. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Hobart

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:09 PM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

Bob;
Thanks for the reply. To answer your question, both pumps it appeared that the armature did not spin freely when turning the shaft. The problem was identified on the last failed pump (as the first, but it came with the boat, no idea on age) when the AC had to be reset due to overheating. First stop, the strainer. Clean as a whistle, pump housing hot as a firecracker. I put city water through a nozzle to the feed hose through the strainer and pump, had good flow. Then turned and blew it through other direction, good flow, pump then worked. I went through this drill again when all of the aforementioned occurred again after a couple of hours or so of operation.
Time for another MO. I them pulled the impeller housing while pump still mounted and all looked fine. Put ac to it and it did not turn but it hummed. Removed pump motor, cut off feed AC cord and brought it up on deck. Process not fun, nor pretty. Pump below the water line 265lb fat man between hull and Cummins feet up belly on Cummins head below feet and belly. March, that moment must have had burning ears. On deck, the magnetic shaft was tight and spun manually jerky, not free. Plugged it in would not spin, no impeller on it, just hummed and heated up.
Next day went to Lewis Marine, $305. later left with a new March Pump, Put an AC plug on it, placed an AC receptacle so testing and replacement (now I am thinking Oct) would be easier and I got a young skinny guy to mount and hook up plumbing. I still have the bad pump, though I am in TX now selling out, I will not be back to boat for 2 or 3 weeks, should you want the pump, though it can be arranged.
I believe the copper encapsulated tubing failed on both pumps and I am at a loss as to why. Any insight would be appreciated.

Hobart Huffines
Sent from my iPad

On May 29, 2013, at 8:57 AM, "Bob Estabrook" <bestabrook@marchpump.com> wrote:

Hello Hobart, We need more information before we can recommend a solution. Why did the pump stop? Did you remove the pump and examine it? Did the motor not run? Was the pump or internal parts broken? Answers to these questions will greatly aid in our diagnosis.

Thanks,
Bob Estabrook

Robert Estabrook
District 7 Regional Sales Manager
March Manufacturing, Inc.

Phone: 313-372-3000
Toll Free: 877-421-4773
Fax: 313-371-4434
Cell: 224-645-8650
Email: bestabrook@marchpump.com
Chemical Magnetic Drive Pumps from March Pump


Name : Hobart Huffines
Email : hobart1@swbell.net
Phone : 817-360-5561
Fax :
Company :
Zip : 32043
Model : lc-3cpmd
Details : serial number= uu092637

I guess you would have to classify me as a disappointed customer. I have been using a March pump behind a large Grotto strainer since the early spring of 2010 for my Mermaid 16,500 btu AC. I am now on my 3rd pump. No large demand or continual 24 hr service and I am finding I am spending $150. a year JUST to pump water to my air conditioner. That seems more than excessive. I never flinch on spending on the boat but I get a bit testy when I do not get my money's worth and I cannot justify why this is happening. The one I just replaced I only got one season out of because the boat was laid up from May to Febuary for a refit. Please get back to me with some explaination. I am keeping the last one around for a while to send to you if you wish. I will gladly work with you in any reengineering of my flow system but from what others have told me and what I have read I am dead on with sizing of the system and straining. Help...
Hobart Huffines

Here is the one that counts...please, please do not ask me to contact this unethical company directly....I suggest THEY contact me directly...

Bob, do not worry about getting me another pump. You seem to be a nice guy and I feel you tried but the Jihad is on. In the Information Age a consumer does not have to just bend over an take it anymore. I have reviewed the March customer service performance on Jamestown, Star Marine Depot and West Marine, with more to come. Here is the write up on the Mainship site. I am truly sorry it came to this, I suggest you cc it to March to help them realize they should get their head out. There will be more, I want the whole world to know this story before they spend their money.
===================================================================
Ok folks here we go. I am on my 3rd $300 March air conditioner raw water pump since October 2009. My second failed at the end of 18 months after a 7 month layup for refit. I live aboard, it was HOT so I rushed out and bought another. Following week I Emailed what turned out to be a contract field rep (Bob) and he agreed that I did not get proper service out of the pump and he would try to get another. More than the poor service of the pump I am angry that March seems ethically challenged because they would not even back up their own Representative.
I have since talked to folks in the boat AC business and to a man they say that March makes a good pump, but once it clears the shelf you are own your own. I would suggest buying from West, getting the insurance and paying with AMX to stack on another year.
If there is anyone out there that knows of a competing pump, tell me, I do not want to let this company have another dime of my money, especially if I have to put in a March every March.
BTW, yes I have a sea strainer and it is serviced regularly.

Hobart....82 remanufactured MS1.




Sent from my iPad

On Nov 6, 2013, at 11:00 AM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

Bob, are you still out there? Hobart.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 1, 2013, at 11:28 AM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

How is the search coming for a lightly used pump? Thanks for you're efforts..Hobart..

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 20, 2013, at 7:37 PM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

Thanks, sorry about March, but thank you for your help. Hobart..

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 20, 2013, at 5:15 PM, "Bob Estabrook - March Mfg." <bestabrook@marchpump.com> wrote:

Hobart,

Sorry this is taking so long. March is not covering the pump under warranty. However my friend in the service & repair department is watching for a “slightly used” pump motor for you. As soon as he comes up with something I’ll let you know.

Thanks for your patients,
Bob


From: hobart hffines
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 9:22 PM
To: Bob Estabrook
Subject: Re: March Pump

Hey Bob, been awhile. Wondering how my case is coming along...Thanks..Hobart

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 21, 2013, at 10:37 AM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

Maybe you missed this reply or have been on vacation. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Hobart

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:09 PM, hobart hffines <hobart1@swbell.net> wrote:

Bob;
Thanks for the reply. To answer your question, both pumps it appeared that the armature did not spin freely when turning the shaft. The problem was identified on the last failed pump (as the first, but it came with the boat, no idea on age) when the AC had to be reset due to overheating. First stop, the strainer. Clean as a whistle, pump housing hot as a firecracker. I put city water through a nozzle to the feed hose through the strainer and pump, had good flow. Then turned and blew it through other direction, good flow, pump then worked. I went through this drill again when all of the aforementioned occurred again after a couple of hours or so of operation.
Time for another MO. I them pulled the impeller housing while pump still mounted and all looked fine. Put ac to it and it did not turn but it hummed. Removed pump motor, cut off feed AC cord and brought it up on deck. Process not fun, nor pretty. Pump below the water line 265lb fat man between hull and Cummins feet up belly on Cummins head below feet and belly. March, that moment must have had burning ears. On deck, the magnetic shaft was tight and spun manually jerky, not free. Plugged it in would not spin, no impeller on it, just hummed and heated up.
Next day went to Lewis Marine, $305. later left with a new March Pump, Put an AC plug on it, placed an AC receptacle so testing and replacement (now I am thinking Oct) would be easier and I got a young skinny guy to mount and hook up plumbing. I still have the bad pump, though I am in TX now selling out, I will not be back to boat for 2 or 3 weeks, should you want the pump, though it can be arranged.
I believe the copper encapsulated tubing failed on both pumps and I am at a loss as to why. Any insight would be appreciated.

Hobart Huffines
Sent from my iPad

On May 29, 2013, at 8:57 AM, "Bob Estabrook" <bestabrook@marchpump.com> wrote:

Hello Hobart, We need more information before we can recommend a solution. Why did the pump stop? Did you remove the pump and examine it? Did the motor not run? Was the pump or internal parts broken? Answers to these questions will greatly aid in our diagnosis.

Thanks,
Bob Estabrook

Robert Estabrook
District 7 Regional Sales Manager
March Manufacturing, Inc.

Phone: 313-372-3000
Toll Free: 877-421-4773
Fax: 313-371-4434
Cell: 224-645-8650
Email: bestabrook@marchpump.com
Chemical Magnetic Drive Pumps from March Pump


Name : Hobart Huffines
Email : hobart1@swbell.net
Phone : 817-360-5561
Fax :
Company :
Zip : 32043
Model : lc-3cpmd
Details : serial number= uu092637

I guess you would have to classify me as a disappointed customer. I have been using a March pump behind a large Grotto strainer since the early spring of 2010 for my Mermaid 16,500 btu AC. I am now on my 3rd pump. No large demand or continual 24 hr service and I am finding I am spending $150. a year JUST to pump water to my air conditioner. That seems more than excessive. I never flinch on spending on the boat but I get a bit testy when I do not get my money's worth and I cannot justify why this is happening. The one I just replaced I only got one season out of because the boat was laid up from May to Febuary for a refit. Please get back to me with some explaination. I am keeping the last one around for a while to send to you if you wish. I will gladly work with you in any reengineering of my flow system but from what others have told me and what I have read I am dead on with sizing of the system and straining. Help...
Hobart Huffines

Sure looks like a reasonable effort to me. Your idea to do the warranty thing with WM is a pretty good idea. I'm going back to the boat on Monday afternoon, maybe Tuesday AM. Will publish the model number of mine then.

"the Jihad is on. "

I'm beginning to see why March is not talking with you anymore.

Good luck finding another brand of pump. Maybe you should try Cal pumps.

The postings were about the first boat, I let it go then last wee another boat, 1 year old March Pump failed again. I, as I said am, DONE. DONE DONE. So think before you buy.

I did not start it, they did, and in 10 years I will still Be at it. I gave them every chance. The jihad is on after months of effort, e mails and empty promises...screw em.... I do not appreciate being strung out...look at the dates.

HopCar said:

Despite the problems Larry and Mule have had, March is the most reliable pump for small air conditioners on the market. That's why they are standard equipment on most new air conditioner systems.

I am disappointed in the customer service Mule has gotten from March.
Mule, you should try going directly to March with your problem.

I would like to know exactly which model of March pump is failing for you guys.

They did have a batch of them that would over heat fifteen or twenty years ago, but I haven't seen that happen in a very long time.

For larger systems you can't beat the Oberdorfer 104M or 109M pumps.

I would like to know exactly which model of March pump is failing for you guys.

They did have a batch of them that would over heat fifteen or twenty years ago, but I haven't seen that happen in a very long time.

Both the March and Oberdorfer are sensitive to air lock. They should be mounted below the waterline with the hose running continuously up hill from the seacock to the pump intake. A way to burp the system can be useful.

The Oberdorfer fails in an interesting way. If the intake is restricted, the impeller cavitates and vacuum bubbles form and collapse on the pump housing. These bubbles will actually eat craters in the bronze and in extreme cases eat through the housing. When I first saw it I thought it was electrolysis but the cavities formed are different and a factory rep told me what was happening.

Click to expand...

Good post. I replaced the impeller and seals every few years as a matter of preventative maintenance. The only way I managed to kill the pump was to (long story of owner bumbling and stupidity omitted) get salt water into the motor and it wasn't that much more to just to get a whole new pump from Depco.

Maybe 'Mule' is more than his handle. I've had March pumps on two boats with never a problem. The fact that his seemed to fail after a haulout would seem to suggest the pump is not mounted below the waterline. March pumps need a flooded inlet.

Bob

BobH said:

Maybe 'Mule' is more than his handle. I've had March pumps on two boats with never a problem. The fact that his seemed to fail after a haulout would seem to suggest the pump is not mounted below the waterline. March pumps need a flooded inlet.

Bob

Click to expand...

I have had great luck with March 5C series pumps I replaced what looked to be an original in my 1974 Bertram 466 at 32 years old. I added a new one in a new install in the 39 Marinette 5 years ago and so far so good. I will say centrifugal flooded pumps are hard to get flooded or keep flooded in shallow draft boats, My strainer fills but for some reason, even though it is downhill to the pump from there but only slightly it will not self prime without burping or back flushing most of the time. I must be building some head pressure in the ac coils to prevent the water from flowing into the pump. Once mine is solid full of water it holds prime for ever. It very much sounds like these failing pumps had some sort of an air leak to cause them to air lock and not cool properly. Otherwise they just never typically fail and they are just good pumps overall for everyone else so something has to be going on. It is weird you have had problems in two boats. Maybe they had some bad ones in your time frame, hard to say. I bet there is 50 to 60 of them running in my marina and I don't see one fail but maybe 2 or 3 times in 10 or more years. I hope you can find satisfaction in all this in the end.

Not pushing any other pump, in fact I hope to find a replacement brand for future use. I am simply a retired telephone man that has enough time to do battle with companies that screw me over. March, very possibly have the best design but when an employee on their payroll makes a commitment and the company will not honor it....well you be the judge. They made a lifelong enemy all for what? A $300 @ retail pump. A customer that in 3 years had bought 2 of their pumps, owned 3. I currently own 2 500 gpm that work and 2 that do not. I helped another boater replace a 250 gpm just last week. Buy em at West with extended coverage. To all of you out there that have gotten excellent service from em, good, hope it keeps up. I have not, not from their product nor their customer service.

I finally bit the bullet and got a replacement Cal pump, which when I saw I'd have to reduce the size of the output from 5/8" to 1/2" and then adapt it again back to 5/8" at the A/C, the modify the mount.....I took the advice above and went to West Marine, purchased a two-year extended warranty on the correct March replacement. I've been over and over the system, and it just isn't a hard job for the pump to do. Just to make sure, I acid flushed the A/C for a while, but again, nothing out of the ordinary. Here's hoping that this thread isn't brought back to life a year from now.

BobH said:

Maybe 'Mule' is more than his handle. I've had March pumps on two boats with never a problem. The fact that his seemed to fail after a haulout would seem to suggest the pump is not mounted below the waterline. March pumps need a flooded inlet.

Bob

Click to expand...

Both my 34 Mainship and my 38 Present have the pumps below the waterline after a large Groco strainer.

Cal pumps are the worst. Good luck with that.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Cal pumps are the worst. Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

A small amount of research allows you to find out that Cal pumps run hot and have a limited life expectancy at least in a lot of cases, My Neighbor just had a bad one and it looked new but he just bought the boat so we don't know it's age but when I read about them and it said that they run +/- 110 degrees and cook the seals we decided to IR gun his running and sure enough 107 degrees shortly after start up. March service may be terrible but their pumps are better than Cal in my opinion.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Cal pumps are the worst. Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

You're speed reading, Bill. I didn't install the Cal pump. The pretty stainless steel didn't impress me.

I guess this statement through me off: "I finally bit the bullet and got a replacement Cal pump".

Capt.Bill11 said:

I guess this statement through me off: "I finally bit the bullet and got a replacement Cal pump".

Click to expand...

Yeah. Once I looked at the pump (a lot smaller) and then looked at the 1/2" output, I realized that it would be more work to adapt it, then more work to mount it, and let's face it.....any pump with a 1/2" outlet isn't going to be helpful to an old A/C that probably owes whatever efficiency it has left to a more than adequate flow of raw-water coolant. I'm getting a 5 gallon bucket of raw-water exhaust in about 40-45 seconds.....ample for a 16 BTU unit. I dunno....I just couldn't see going to the effort to go with a smaller pump. My old A/C may be on it's last legs....we'll see.

So what IS the best brand AC Circ pump? My Cal pump is shot. Need a 500+- gph pump.