Hydraulic oil weeping from steering wheel on lower helm station

I have a situation where there is a small amount of hydraulic oil weeping from steering wheel on the lower helm station. It's only a very small amount and is most noticeable when "George" is engaged. Screws or thread to be tightened or gasket to be replaced? I'd be interested in learning if anyone has suggestions on how to fix this issue before I get into trouble by opening everything up.

Jim

....oops! I will read the thread below on the "Hydraulic Steering Pump".

Jim

Where is the oil coming from? I have had many instances in up/down helm situations where the upper helm was not fitted with a breather plug which meant any expansion in the steering oil due to heating (ie through a/p pump or sunlight) forced oil out the helm shaft seal. Check your upper helm fill plug has a breather hole. The next most likely cause in my experience is any helm station that people can rest arms/butts/feet on the wheel which causes loading on the steering shaft bush which the seal cannot compensate for. If this is not a new vessel to you, no changes have been made and the problem is gradual I would suspect a simple seal replacement is the solution

Jim: Any pictures?

I'm not on the boat right now. Will be tomorrow. It's a very slight weeping where the steering wheel shaft comes out of the bulkhead. The oil travels down the wall and is visible from the watch berth. I have cropped and enlarged the attached photo that was part of a collection when we purchased the vessel. There is evidence that the weeping occurred at that time. I will check on the manufacturer of the pump on Monday.



Jim

Jim: I believe we have the same set up which would be the Teleflex Hynautic model H-21. You can buy a seal kit for less than $30. I have no idea what is involved in changing the seals. Maybe someone else has. Here are a couple of pictures of the pump.

Yes. We have the same vintage 42: 1985, I believe. I will check tomorrow.

http://www.downwindmarine.com/Teleflex-Hynautic-Helm-Seal-Kits-p-91002334.html

Thanks!

Jim

The OPs unit is a Teleflex Capilano helm pump recognizable from the knob beneath the shaft that adusts the pump displacement chaning the turns from lock to lock. It is a vented system not pressurized as Hynautic is. May be a little confusing these days since Hynautic is also Teleflex. I have not rebuilt one in many years so don't know whether you can reseal it in place or have to remove it to perfrom that service.

My upper helm has had a slight leak, same system, for about 6 years now.... I really need to get to that repair. I remember past posts from Keith and others on the forum who pull the steering wheel and replaced the leaking seal and it was not a big job.


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Lehman 135 Twins

We recently took Phoenix Hunter out for a short sea trial and the weeping from the wheel shaft seal on the lower helm station is a bit more noticeable than last year. Also, the seal on the upper helm station is likewise compromised. I'm going to have to go through this process to fix these. The pumps themselves are not leaking anywhere. The gasket kits are $31.98 Cdn, available at Western Marine. However, if I only need the O-ring for the wheel shafts, I would rather go that route. The units are the Capilano Teleflex model 275V. The shaft is 19 mm or 3/4", measured by calliper. What will be revealed when I take off that knurled knob in the center of the steering wheel? If anyone can provide me instructions on how I can go about this, it would be most helpful.

Nightcap raises a couple of questions. I cannot comment on how the PO's handled the wheel, but I don't use the wheel as a foot rest, although, I do "hold on" in heavier seals. The upper helm has a cover over the fly bridge, which probably should have an insert to take some of the strain of the cover on the wheel.

Nightcap: The upper helm pump has two plugs. I topped up the tank (about 1/2 pint) through one of the plugs and it did not have a vent. I cannot see if the other plug has a vent, but according to the PDF manual of the Capilano system, the upper helm should have one.



C-Lectric mentioned Wriason Seals, which is conveniently located for me. I will see what they can provide. I would appreciate any additional advice on how I can go about this fix.

Jim

You need to get in there with a dentist mirror and see if that top plug is vented or there is a vent somewhere else.

Nightcap. I'm back at the boat. That other plug just isn't visible at all. In order to remove it I would have to remove the cover/cowling from the flybridge, disconnecting a whole,load of other things. What about drilling a small hole in the other plug using a drill press?

Having removed the lock nut from the steering wheel shaft, it seems the shaft is also threaded to a bronze cylinder inside the wheel. What technique should be used for removing it? I assume a pipe wrench is not a good idea.

Jim
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Okay, is there some sort of threaded ring in there? With some sort of "key" to use to remove it? My son thinks I should be using a puller.


Jim


Jim
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Not totally sure what I'm looking at there. Is the larger thread what holds the brass wheel hub cover on? If so, you need a three leg gear puller to remove the wheel. Assuming it is a tapered fit, leave the shaft nut on a few threads, crank on the puller and hit the puller end a sharp whack with a hammer.
If you can't access the top plug then drilling the lower one should do. Try to orientate the hole so it faces down and can't collect dirt etc. To do this you may need to drill one hole almost through from the threaded end of the plug (can use a large bit) and then drill a finer (1/16") hole from the square end to meet it.

Once the nut is off it may take a wheel or gear puller. I used a two legged gear puller the first time and since then the wheel comes off just by pulling on it. (I have to remove the lower wheel on occasion to access the electrical terminal behind it.) There is a key.

Our unit has the two plugs and neither one is vented. When filling the unit, if you leave a little air space that should be sufficient for any thermal expansion of the fluid. Other than that there should be no change in the system volume.

Bob

JDCAVE said:

I cannot see if the other plug has a vent, but according to the PDF manual of the Capilano system, the upper helm should have one.

Click to expand...

Apparently it does need a vent. An air space will still enable pressure to build up as the fluid expands and put more pressure on the shaft seals than they are designed for. This is a very common fault on hydraulic steering systems and particularly bad where the helm units are exposed to sun.

The shaft is 3/4" and the housing is 1", so a 1/8" O-ring. At least that worked on ours.

Bob

You will need an o-ring that is for use with oil.

Page 15 of the manual: "This procedure will provide for sufficient air space to accommodate fluid expansion."

Bob

Buna-N, the most common type or Viton.

Bob

Thanks all. I got it off.
View attachment 30314
I will now remove the "o" ring and get replacements. Will also deal with the vented plug somehow.


Jim
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JDCAVE said:

. . . . . . Will also deal with the vented plug somehow.

Click to expand...

This was my solution. Neither hole goes all the way through - only until they intersect.

We installed on of these kits from Teleflex on the upper helm. Now we can top up the system from the dash, real easy and no mess. The cap is designed with a waterproof vent in it.......

Shoal waters...thanks for that info. I should be able to do that with a drill press, I think.

I finished putting in the gasket on the lower helm. The wheel puller, although not particularly forgiving to this newbie, ultimately did the trick. As suggested above, the "O" ring was 3/4" ID and 1" OD. I did find, however, that it leaked quite a bit with the o ring removed, so had to put it back in until I had the replacement ready to go.

I went to a place in Richmond BC on Alderbridge way called Fluidseal. They have a $10 minimum order. I asked for 2 of these o rings and the guy sent me on my way with them, no charge...such a deal in boat land. I'll finish the upper helm and then do a sea trial to test for leaks. No leaks so far, just moving the wheel about.


Jim
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JDCAVE said:

. . . I should be able to do that with a drill press, I think.

Click to expand...

That's what I used. If you have a press, you likely have the flat vise to go with it (if not, really good investment). Use a center-punch to mark the holes. Clamp in the vise with pieces of thin plywood in the jaws to stop slipping of/damage to the workpiece. Use a sharp drill bit with a little oil on it. Go gently, clear drill often.

JDCAVE said:

Shoal waters...thanks for that info. I should be able to do that with a drill press, I think.

I finished putting in the gasket on the lower helm. The wheel puller, although not particularly forgiving to this newbie, ultimately did the trick. As suggested above, the "O" ring was 3/4" ID and 1" OD. I did find, however, that it leaked quite a bit with the o ring removed, so had to put it back in until I had the replacement ready to go.

I went to a place in Richmond BC on Alderbridge way called Fluidseal. They have a $10 minimum order. I asked for 2 of these o rings and the guy sent me on my way with them, no charge...such a deal in boat land. I'll finish the upper helm and then do a sea trial to test for leaks. No leaks so far, just moving the wheel about.


Jim
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Click to expand...

Jim,

I just saw this thread. Sorry i did not see it earlier as I had the EXACT same problem.

I figured out it seemed to have started when i was turning he wheel while still on Autopilot. The upper helm station was not vented.

In reading the book, the manual said that if the system wasn't vented, this seep would occur. I bled the system and after a week of use and upper helm burping, the problem seems solved and the weeping has not reoccurred.

I do keep a little bandana tied to the steering post.

Richard. It was a pretty easy to replace the o-ring, once I figured out what was going on. I do want to get that vented plug done on the upper helm if I can. The pump is located directly under the compass in that station but the plug that is supposed to be vented is not accessible without pulling the cover that encloses that helm. Perhaps use of a Borescope would reveal whether it is vented as specified.


Jim
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According to the manual, as I posted above, the air space is sufficient to account for fluid expansion. The vent plug is not vented, it is removed to vent the system while filling it.

Bob

Hi Bob... I have a PDF of the installation instructions of the Capilano Teleflex 1275 steering system. In the trouble shooting section, page 21 it states:

"8. Seals will sometimes leak if the steering system is not vented at the uppermost helm....Solution: The Capilano Helm has a field replaceable wheel shaft seal...."

http://www.comstedt.se/pdf/manualer/capilanoheavyduty4.pdf

I interpret this to mean that one of the plugs on the upper helm pump should be vented.


Jim
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But on page 15/17 it states that the bleeding procedure described will provide enough air space to allow for fluid expansion. If I was going to install a vented plug I would not just leave an open hole to the atmosphere. I have seen plugs with a sintered metal filter attached that would provide venting but keep out unwanted dust, fiberglass, etc.

I have replaced the O-ring on my upper helm about a year ago and have not had any more leakage.

Bob