Mandatory Dye Tablets for Your Black tank??

markpierce said:

Also, my pumpout vendor recommends flushing a load of vinegar and vegetable oil periodically.

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That sounds like a recipe for salad dressing.

The idea of putting oil in a marine toilet is a hold over from the days of leather cups in the pumps. The idea was to keep the leather from hardening. It really has no relevance today. If you have a manual piston type toilet, a little silicone grease on the rubber parts once a year should keep it working fine.

Here in Santa Cruz, the highest bacteria counts are where the municipal sewer plant is (but allegedly discharges a mile out. ha ha), and the beaches where the birds hang out during the summer. The harbor is small, and has a pumpout, and has a safe level of toxins.
Water Quality Site
I wish I could figure out how to find earlier data, because I know when it starts raining, the rivers pump out all sorts of nastiness and it reflects in the sampling during those periods.

Moonstruck said:

Art, here is our solution to the problem. Moonstruck cruises in different areas. In the Bahamas there are few pump out facilities. I think they depend on the tides sweeping across the Banks to flush out pollutant. From Biscayne Bay to Key West (and probably Garden Key} there is a zero discharge zone.

Here is what we installed.

Raritan Engineering | Waste Treatment | Hold n' Treat

We did not do the installation as shown with Raritan's dinky holding tank. We have a 70 gal. holding tank, and use it. This gives us the flexibility to pump over treated sewage, or turn off and lock the system for holding tank use. We looked at it several different ways, and this seemed best for us.

Key West has mandatory pump outs.

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Don, that looks like a good system, but the only problem I see is that I would rather not discharge anything, including treated waste in a harbor although I am probably being overly picky. It looks like your installation avoids that. Do you know the maximum size tank you can use if installed like you have?

So much depends on location. In my opinion, those who discharge sewage in harbors, fresh water, shallow water or close into shore should be put in stocks. In the PNW north to Alaska the situation is rather different than it is in the shallow waters of Florida, SF Bay, etc. because 1. there aren't any pumpouts up north, 2. the water is DEEP and 3. the currents are significant.

Though many object to the idea, Puget Sound is actually nitrogen starved and the deposition of sewage randomly off shore underway is likely highly beneficial. This is very different from point sources of pollution from leaking septic tanks or the old practice of municipalities simply dumping raw sewage a couple hundred feet offshore. The City of Victoria used to do exactly that with a line that ran out to Race Rocks and although because of the swift currents and deep water I don't think there was ever any measurement of pollution made, the City was shamed into ceasing the practice, or at least I think that is the case. That was probably a triumph of politics over reason, but the point is that what is a rational solution in one place is completely crazy and a waste of everyone's money and time elsewhere.

I have the same system on both of my boats. The H-N-T controls a Raritan PuraSan on each vessel. There is no upper limit to the holding tank size. The unit treats about 1.5 gallons per cycle. It has a cool down period, the controller is fairly complex. I am using it with a 36 gallon tank on my Mainship and a 45 gallon holding tank on the Gulfstar.
Bill

There is no limit on the size of holding tank the system will work with. However there is a "pressure sensing" tube that inserts to the top of the tank that activates the system when on automatic. I think Raritan could make a tube to what ever length would be required. After measuring, we cut the tube at 3/4" off the bottom.

With our 70 gal. holding tank we can hold for about two weeks of steady use while in the harbor. I have two ways of locking the system off. The control panel in the head has a keyed switch. and I can lock the macerator breaker in the off position. Nobody else knows where I keep that key. A tank gauge in the head keeps me abreast of the level.

Delfin said:

The City of Victoria used to do exactly that with a line that ran out to Race Rocks and although because of the swift currents and deep water I don't think there was ever any measurement of pollution made, the City was shamed into ceasing the practice, or at least I think that is the case. That was probably a triumph of politics over reason, but the point is that what is a rational solution in one place is completely crazy and a waste of everyone's money and time elsewhere.

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Nope. They still dump. Very contentious plan.

Northern Spy said:

Nope. They still dump. Very contentious plan.

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Yet govt. Canada wanted us to keep accurate records of holding tank pumping to prove we boaters didn't dump.. while the entire city of Victoria dumps direct... anybody see the joke here?


I have always dumped when 3m+ offshore and will continue to do so.

HOLLYWOOD

When I lived in Broward county FLA decades ago, the county was dumping treated waste water in the Gulf Stream. This was bad somehow and the dumping had to stop but where to put the treated waste water?

The county decided to pump the treated waste water thousands of feet down into an aquifer....

The aquifer was not used for drinking water, and if my memory is correct, the aquifer water was not drinkable, but pumping millions of gallons of treated waste water into an aquifer just does not seem to be the right thing to do.

Later,
Dan

Even when I'm 3 miles off shore I dump treated waste from the Raritan H-N-T and the PuraSan. I can only remove waste using 2 methods, the deck pump out and through the treatment system.
Bill

dannc said:

When I lived in Broward county FLA decades ago, the county was dumping treated waste water in the Gulf Stream. This was bad somehow and the dumping had to stop but where to put the treated waste water?

The county decided to pump the treated waste water thousands of feet down into an aquifer....

The aquifer was not used for drinking water, and if my memory is correct, the aquifer water was not drinkable, but pumping millions of gallons of treated waste water into an aquifer just does not seem to be the right thing to do.

Later,
Dan

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I AGREE!!!

Damn – Who in the H had/has the right to make that F'd-Up decision?? Talk about humans laying waste to Earth's purposely natural capillaries that enable its own fluid transfers...

IMHO – Civilization, in general, simply has not yet gained the full concept that this planet IS a Living, Breathing Entity in its own ways and of its own volition. If there were not one human alive the other life forms and the “natural” sequences for life support systems that planet Earth naturally evolved into over its billions of years existence would do just fine in further development. Therefore, it is responsibility of humans to learn how to correctly coincide with Earth’s natural ways rather than to do as we please and not coincide with Earth’s self developed nature. We are passengers on this planet who need to watch our P’s and Q’s... so to say!

BTW: For persons believing in a Grand Creator who planned/plans everything – “Planned Evolution” is part of the package! Let’s take care of “Our” Planet Earth’s naturally evolved resources and manners of life contributing resource developments! – PLEASE!!

Pleasure boat Black Water holding tank “pump outs” is one of the ways to help take care of our harbors’ waters. I say: Pump It – Don’t Dump It!!

So you're bringing God into this discussion?

rwidman said:

So you're bringing God into this discussion?

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Depends upon how you look at what I wrote - Big Guy! Don't be scared...

Yep...pump it out so it goes to a wastewater treatment facility that has more lax standards and more failures direct discharge failures that result in RAW sewage getting into the environment. It also dumps 100% of the time into the exact same water as opposed to an onboard system that "according to testing laboratories and USCG" is purer than waste water plants at their best and that onboard system dumps tiny amounts wherever the boat may be.

yep...it all makes sense to me.....

Art said:

Depends upon how you look at what I wrote - Big Guy! Don't be scared...

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My point is, you are getting carried away with this "issue" that's not really an issue. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I would put murderers and rapists in stocks before worrying about someone dumping a little pee or poop.

Keep things in perspective.

psneeld said:

Yep...pump it out so it goes to a wastewater treatment facility that has more lax standards and more failures direct discharge failures that result in RAW sewage getting into the environment. It also dumps 100% of the time into the exact same water as opposed to an onboard system that "according to testing laboratories and USCG" is purer than waste water plants at their best and that onboard system dumps tiny amounts wherever the boat may be.

yep...it all makes sense to me.....

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I, You, We, Me, Us, Them, Others... sure don't have all the answers. Far as I’m concerned we’re all chatting here on TF thread simply to try and make best plan(s) we can think of (share) for clean waters.

BTW - Not all land based sewage treatment plants leak hugely and often into proximity water... but... it is certain and unfortunate that some actually do! Septic recycling systems’ Big Leaks make BIG News. Systems with NO Leaks make little to NO News.

It's the raw (non treated) fecal matter pumped into bays from fairly large quantity multi-gallon boat holding tanks that I refer to as needing to be otherwise Pumped-Out.

It simply is not cool or correct to discharge untreated fecal matter from pleasure boats into local area waters. Whether by bowl full, or by holding tank full, raw human fecal matter should not enter into confined water areas. - Period!

IMHO – Relatively small amounts of urine and gray water containing bio degradable detergents are a different story. Like I've said - I'm no saint, just trying to be reasonably logical regarding efforts needed to help keep our waters "swimming clean".

The Buck has to stop somewhere regarding fecal matter in confined bay areas. Pumping-Out boat holding tanks is an effectively good front-line effort!

Just sayen!
Happy Boating Daze! - Art

rwidman said:

My point is, you are getting carried away with this "issue" that's not really an issue. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I would put murderers and rapists in stocks before worrying about someone dumping a little pee or poop.

Keep things in perspective.

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Raw, untreated fecal matter released by pleasure boats into bay areas IS an "issue"!

You say:

"Keep things in perspective." then you equate; "...murderers and rapists in stocks..." - to - "...someone dumping a little pee or poop"

GEEEEZZZ... Again,

This is a position I can respect from BandB post #78

"I personally choose not to dump, even treated in marinas and harbors. And to make it clear I'm not an environmentalist who really does much for the environment so I'm making no overall claims. This is just one we find easy. "

Many people here would fail miserably if given a detailed environmental audit ......the least objectionable would probably be what comes out of their boat.

While I try to leave a small footprint like most people....most people's concept of environmentalism is just the way they twist t to fit their lifestyles...

Like owning old cars for the heck of it...or a bazillion other things that certainly don't do a damn bit of good for the environment like what they eat or put on their front lawns, or flying commercial airlines, using electricity from coal powered plants...it goes on forever and most can certainly be argued as well and as vigorously and mindlessly as boat poop.

psneeld said:

Many people here would fail miserably if given a detailed environmental audit ......the least objectionable would probably be what comes out of their boat.

While I try to leave a small footprint like most people....most people's concept of environmentalism is just the way they twist t to fit their lifestyles...

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I've dealt with this issue both in the Corporate world and as an individual. I've found two constants. First, we do what is best for the environment when it's made easy for us. Second, we do what is best for the environment when it's financially beneficial or at worst not financially detrimental.

Improving our impact on the requirement happens gradually, sometimes much too gradually.

The other aspect of this is being good neighbors. This is true whether sewage from your boat in a harbor or air pollution from the smokestacks of your factory. Some are more sensitive to potential negative impact on neighbors than others.

I would say this thread has had one positive. It's led to a discussion, much of it civil and on target even if some wasn't, of environmental issues. None of us have all the answers but if our awareness is heightened, we may be a part of the solutions.

BandB said:

I've dealt with this issue both in the Corporate world and as an individual. I've found two constants. First, we do what is best for the environment when it's made easy for us. Second, we do what is best for the environment when it's financially beneficial or at worst not financially detrimental.

Improving our impact on the requirement happens gradually, sometimes much too gradually.

The other aspect of this is being good neighbors. This is true whether sewage from your boat in a harbor or air pollution from the smokestacks of your factory. Some are more sensitive to potential negative impact on neighbors than others.

I would say this thread has had one positive. It's led to a discussion, much of it civil and on target even if some wasn't, of environmental issues. None of us have all the answers but if our awareness is heightened, we may be a part of the solutions.

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Very Good Post! Thanks!!

Northern Spy said:

Nope. They still dump. Very contentious plan.

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Ah, I thought that had changed. Ah well, Race Rocks and the currents thereabouts are the world's largest natural sewage treatment plant, so perhaps we will all survive.

Land based sewage systems do dump several thousand boatloads (as it were) of raw -as in untreated- sewage into the environment.

Sewage spills on Tybee Island | savannahnow.com

"An estimated 90,677 gallons of raw sewage spilled into the marsh on Tybee Island Sunday (July 2013) when a force main broke"
" according to David Lyle of the state Environmental Protection Division. The island benefitted from the natural flow of water dispersing the spill.
“There have been a lot of tide changes since then,” Lyle said."

It's all good. Except if it's your 45 gallons.

It's all good. Except if it's your 45 gallons

Concentration ,or lack of concentration, is the key.

I prefer to put waste into the void one discharge at a time but alas the buroRats has their agenda, and guns.

I know a couple of years ago while we were doing a lot of Colombia River boating there was a 4,000,000 gallon spill into the river in the Tri Cities of raw untreated sewage.. into a fresh water river that had to travel 300+ miles to dump into the ocean. The authorities made very little stink about it.. Must not be that bad of a situation if you can dump 4,000,000 gallons with little fuss.
HOLLYWOOD

Earth, our house / home, has become overpopulated with humans; population increase continues.

During last few hundred years many societies have developed extremely useful and inventive ways to make life easier and, to even become fun on this planet; invention agenda continues.

Unfortunately for their citizens many societies have not been so inventive productive.

Due to overpopulation and many types of the inventions created we humans simply are overloading this “planet’s natural recycling system’s capabilities” that are contained in its ecosystem.

Pleasure boating topic on this thread regarding whether to dump-out into water or to pump-out untreated fecal matter into sewage treatment systems is only a small fraction of human-based requirements to hopefully stop overloading Earth’s ecosystem. BUT – reduction of untreated fecal matter in swimming waters Is A Part of the Clean-Up Agenda.

One of my businesses is heavily into cleaning the atmosphere. Boating to me at this stage of life is pure enjoyment... helps keep me sane!

Realizing the perilous ecosystemic conditions on our planet I feel it is best to “Pump-Out – Not – Dump-Out!

Just saying!

Happy Boating Daze! – Art

hollywood8118 said:

I know a couple of years ago while we were doing a lot of Colombia River boating there was a 4,000,000 gallon spill into the river in the Tri Cities of raw untreated sewage.. into a fresh water river that had to travel 300+ miles to dump into the ocean. The authorities made very little stink about it.. Must not be that bad of a situation if you can dump 4,000,000 gallons with little fuss.
HOLLYWOOD

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Years ago, a treatment plant had a problem and spilled millions of gallons of sewage into a large local lake that is used by several cities and counties as a source of drinking water. At the time, when I would flush the toilet at work, the black water would be treated in the local plant, dumped into the lake and eventually pumped out of the lake and used by the city where we lived. I was literally drinking at home what I flushed at work.

Back then, I was paddling my kayak on 20 mile round trips on the lake. The news said that it was safe to be in the lake, even though millions of gallons of sewage had spiiled, so I put in at one of the larger parts of the lake and headed north towards the end of the lake where the spill had flowed into the lake. After passing through a major causeway that divides the lake, I noticed lots of bubbles in the water. Normally, I would see bubbles from boat traffic but these were different bubbles.

The bubbles were spread over most of the lake and being blow down wind. The bubbles were brown. It only took seconds to figure out what I was seeing, but by then it was too late, and I started seeing Poo Bergs floating the water. I do not think Poo Bergs have been studied much, but from my quick observations, Poo Bergs float just below the water surface and are very difficult to see. While Poo Bergs will not sink your boat, I really don't think one wants a Poo Berg Smear on one's boat's gel coat.

After sighting Poo Bergs, Ho!, I quickly changed my paddling style to one that prevented/minimized water dripping on my hands or head , and quickly headed up wind to escape the Poo Berg field which stretched for miles up the lake. I continued my 20 mile paddle staying upwind and out of the Poo Berg field but I never again wore the hat I was wearing that day.

The sick thing about this is that the useless news station said it was safe to be in the lake. There is a campground next to the Poo Berg field and people wade into the water for fishing and swimming from the camp sites. There was a sail boat, thank fully upwind of the Poo Bergs, but people were swimming from the boat. I really don't think swimming in millions of gallons of sewage while dodging Poo Bergs is safe. The causeway likely trapped much of the Poo Bergs from passing to the next pool of the lake where there are major swimming beaches but the contaminated water surely passed into that part of the lake by the week end.

Course, this is the same "news" station that talks about new office building openings, and the real kicker, stating it was safe to drive to the coast after a hurricane had touched the Outer Banks and they just had a report from the Highway Patrol stating to stay off the roads along the coast due to flooding.

In spite of sewage spills, which happen from time to time, one just occurred a few months ago on a much smaller scale, the river and lake are in much better shape today than decades ago.

Later,
Dan

Art said:

Earth, our house / home, has become overpopulated with humans; population increase continues.


Due to overpopulation and many types of the inventions created we humans simply are overloading this “planet’s natural recycling system’s capabilities” that are contained in its ecosystem.



One of my businesses is heavily into cleaning the atmosphere. Boating to me at this stage of life is pure enjoyment... helps keep me sane!



Happy Boating Daze! – Art

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I always love broad statements like these!... who says the earth is overpopulated? .. who set the number? Are most populations going up.. sure.. It has been that way through most of history.

Not to beat you up too bad on this Art, but if you feel so strongly about this should you not be on a sailboat vs. a greenhouse gas, earth killing powerboat?

There are so many groups that try to stop so called "man made" environmental issues .. the one thta gets to me on a daily basis is "man made" erosion here in the PNW... we now have to build back further from the bluff front waterfront so we don't cause bluff erosion.. the irony is that ALL of Puget Sound is a erosion area that started a bazillion years ago after the last ice age (which I am sure some some enviro group blames on the few humans that were here then!)

On a side note, I am a TOTAL ADVOCATE of some of the things we do to protect the environment.. I recycle all plastics, don't dump used oil, don't drive old beater polluting cars.. don't pump oily bilge water.. These all make sense

HOLLYWOOD

FF said:

Itsv expensive to educate kids .

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It's expensive not to.

hollywood8118 said:

I always love broad statements like these!... who says the earth is overpopulated? .. who set the number? Are most populations going up.. sure.. It has been that way through most of history.

Not to beat you up too bad on this Art, but if you feel so strongly about this should you not be on a sailboat vs. a greenhouse gas, earth killing powerboat?

There are so many groups that try to stop so called "man made" environmental issues .. the one thta gets to me on a daily basis is "man made" erosion here in the PNW... we now have to build back further from the bluff front waterfront so we don't cause bluff erosion.. the irony is that ALL of Puget Sound is a erosion area that started a bazillion years ago after the last ice age (which I am sure some some enviro group blames on the few humans that were here then!)

On a side note, I am a TOTAL ADVOCATE of some of the things we do to protect the environment.. I recycle all plastics, don't dump used oil, don't drive old beater polluting cars.. don't pump oily bilge water.. These all make sense

HOLLYWOOD

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The idea of over population in developed nations is a figment of imagination. For a few facts on the extremely serious negative impacts of no population growth, this is a pretty good read: What to Expect When No One's Expecting: America's Coming Demographic Disaster: Jonathan V. Last: 9781594036415: Amazon.com: Books. On the topic at hand, given the alternatives available why on earth someone would be so inconsiderate as to pump out raw sewage into a harbor or near people is beyond me, even if it is "just a little poo". We should hardly need government to tell us not to crap in the kiddie pool, but apparently some need the reminder.