Coolant loss

We have a 1974 G.B. with a John Deer Ammera 404. After running the engine the coolant go down after awhile. No coolant in the hull, or the oil. Put food color in the coolant system to see if was going into the sea water, but none in sight. Put a pressure tester on the system and the pressure goes down after awhile. Next we will put dye in the cooling system and check with a ultra violent light to see if there is any trace in the seawater. Then pull the side cover from the heat exchanger and check for traces of dye in there. Any ideas? Thanks, Ed.

Make sure the coolant fill cap is sealing properly. Be sure the rim on the fill is clean. Be sure the cap is the correct one/pressure rating. Good luck.

Speced said:

We have a 1974 G.B. with a John Deer Ammera 404. After running the engine the coolant go down after awhile. No coolant in the hull, or the oil. Put food color in the coolant system to see if was going into the sea water, but none in sight. Put a pressure tester on the system and the pressure goes down after awhile. Next we will put dye in the cooling system and check with a ultra violent light to see if there is any trace in the seawater. Then pull the side cover from the heat exchanger and check for traces of dye in there. Any ideas? Thanks, Ed.

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Sorry to say it sounds like your head gasket. That's the only place it could go (being combusted) so that you see no trace.

Do a compression check.
Good Luck

Check your exhaust. If you have a heat exchanger, it could be bad.

It's not always a head gasket or cracked head problem. Start easy and work up.

Does it have a turbo? On some of the bigger Deeres the turbo flange gasket tends to develop leaks resulting in symptoms like you describe.

The cap is a new 13 pound cap. It should have between 6.5 to7.5, but no one has one. I don't think it's a head gasket because it isn't building up pressure infact it's loseing pressure. I'm going with the test for the heat exchanger and hope for the best. Thanks

I hope it is just your heat exchanger and not head gasket. I don't think you would ever see dye color in exhaust water, there's just too much volume. Please get the correct pressure cap, 4 or 7 lbs, you can get them online, and do your system a favor. If you dont have an overflow reservoir, coolant will be forced out to a certain level the first time you run after filling and then stay there. this is fine and the way older engines were made to operate. Back in the day, when you checked your coolant in your car/boat, if you could touch it w/ your finger, it was fine. If you added more, it just came out the overflow and repeated addings just diluted your AF . So if you don't have an overflow tank, don't expect the coolant to remain tip top.

Brooksie said:

I hope it is just your heat exchanger and not head gasket. I don't think you would ever see dye color in exhaust water, there's just too much volume.

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If you use a flourescein dye, mixed well with the coolant, then pressurized for several minutes while the enigne is warm but not running, a sample drained from the raw water side of the heat exchanger should indicate a leak if one is present.

RickB said:

If you use a flourescein dye, mixed well with the coolant, then pressurized for several minutes while the enigne is warm but not running, a sample drained from the raw water side of the heat exchanger should indicate a leak if one is present.

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Good idea. That reminds me, there is a test kit for combustion products in the coolant also.

Yes we have an recovery bottle and I have access to the dye for checking carbon in the coolent system but pressure would build up in the coolent system if a head gasket was bad. Thanks guys. Ed

Have you noticed any brown smoke in the exhaust when running close to WOT? Coolant in combustion can often show up as brown smoke. Just another thing to check

Speced said:

Yes we have an recovery bottle...

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I was losing coolant as evidenced by the need to add more to my recovery bottle. Turns out the hose from the bottle to the engine had dry rotted and the coolant was dripping on the hot engine and evaporating. . Simple fix once it was discovered.

Dave

I'm getting coolent out the overflow on manicooler on Perkins 6.354m .The books shows two differnt size caps a 7lb and 14lb . Which cap should I get ?

Speced said:

We have a 1974 G.B. with a John Deer Ammera 404. After running the engine the coolant go down after awhile. No coolant in the hull, or the oil. Put food color in the coolant system to see if was going into the sea water, but none in sight. Put a pressure tester on the system and the pressure goes down after awhile. Next we will put dye in the cooling system and check with a ultra violent light to see if there is any trace in the seawater. Then pull the side cover from the heat exchanger and check for traces of dye in there. Any ideas? Thanks, Ed.

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Check your heatexchanger ( intercooler ) and the waterheater ( when the engine heat this Waterheater and the hotwater smells ) for leaks.
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Norbert

Coolent loss.

after all the testing we replaced the cap with a propper size 6# cap and after extensive boating the cap seems to have fixed the problem. Thanks one and all for all your idea's. Speced

Speced said:

after all the testing we replaced the cap with a propper size 6# cap and after extensive boating the cap seems to have fixed the problem. Thanks one and all for all your idea's. Speced

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Yep, if it worked fine and then you used the wrong cap and it started losing coolant, installing the correct cap would be the first step in troubleshooting.

Trouble shooting is simply a process of logical thinking.

I positive I've got a bad cap also . I'm getting a new one today .

Pack Mule said:

I'm getting coolent out the overflow on manicooler on Perkins 6.354m .The books shows two differnt size caps a 7lb and 14lb . Which cap should I get ?

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Different engines but my Perkins 4.154M call for 7lb caps. I have no coolant recovery bottles. The coolers have no provision for them.
I called TAD Inc to verify.
Bill

rwidman said:

Yep, if it worked fine and then you used the wrong cap and it started losing coolant, installing the correct cap would be the first step in troubleshooting.

Trouble shooting is simply a process of logical thinking.

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Ron you don't suggest the shotgun method of troubleshooting?
Bill

John Deere 6-404 engine

Speced said:

after all the testing we replaced the cap with a propper size 6# cap and after extensive boating the cap seems to have fixed the problem. Thanks one and all for all your idea's. Speced

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We have water in the oil. We want to take the engine oil cooler off and check it. I need to locate new gaskets before I start. andy Idea's

Don't forget when using "ultra violent" light you should evacuate the marina and contact the Coast Guard, first. Have plenty of fire extinguishers and at least a 6-pack handy. Just sayin'.

Coolant in the oil (you said you were losing coolant?) is usually a leaky head gasket. Salt water in the oil would be a heat exchanger, unless you did my mod and cool your oil with coolant, then coolant in the oil could be a cooler.

You can tell for sure by pressurizing the system. I don't know if you can rent one, but a small pump attaches to where the radiator cap goes and you pump it to the appropriate pressure and listen for the leaks.

Will you do the repair yourself? The head will be heavy so you will need some muscle to help you, but I don't think a head gasket is that hard. I've done a few on smaller, gasoline engines.

You will need a head gasket, an exhaust gasket, an intake gasket and maybe a valve cover gasket. Buy them somewhere that you can take em back if you don't use them. You will need a manual for torque settings and valve clearances, get a bag of shop towels, a new oil filter, 5 gallon pail of oil and some new coolant. Scrapers to remove old gaskets, buckets to put bolts in (lest the bilge ferrets get you).
Paint for the block (why not? It will be easy when apart) and any new hose clamps and hoses, belts etc that you will find substandard. Feeler gauges for the valves.

Ever had the injectors serviced? Good time for that. You will need new copper washers for those.

Personally, except for the aggravation and the bad timing (summer) it is an exciting and interesting repair that will let you learn way more about your engine. Shouldn't even cost very much (except for the injector service). Make sure you have good knee pads and a good support system with a good source of coffee (or your favourite beverage).

Not knowing anything about John Deeres, you might have to buy new head bolts if they are "stretch" bolts.

Have fun and don't panic, you caught it before too much damage could occur.

We are going to remove the oil cooler and test it, But need to get gaskets and maybe another engine cooler before taking it apart. Where can I get these parts? thanks Ed

Deere dealer?? Tried one of those?

Usually oil cooler leaks oil into coolant as the oil is at higher pressure, but not always.

Coolant or salt water/raw water?

"Coolant or salt water/raw water?"

I expect it is different dependent on what type of engine you have. On my Detroit 6V92s the oil cooler has coolant running through it to cool the oil. Not sure on other types of engines... Ski, is this correct?

Rogerh said:

"Coolant or salt water/raw water?"

I expect it is different dependent on what type of engine you have. On my Detroit 6V92s the oil cooler has coolant running through it to cool the oil. Not sure on other types of engines... Ski, is this correct?

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Good point. It does make a difference. I think Deeres use coolant for oil cooling like DD, Cat and Cummins. But it could be like Yanmar, Volvo and Lehman and use sea water. But still the OP is higher press than the water side, just that it goes out the tailpipe then.

I have seen coolers that leaked on shutdown, but not when oil pressure came up. Apparently it was a tube crack that closed up when shell side pressurized. P-tested both ways: On oil side it passed, pressurized water side and it flunked.

Others passed both ways, but still replaced as passing a ptest is no guarantee that leak does not exist under some conditions.

Hello. I'm a newbie to Grand Banks and this website. Anyone tell me where to order a new pressure cap? I have '69 with Ford 120 Lehman, cap is 4lb, looks original, it has a 180 degree thermostat. Any help would be appreciated.

any auto parts store will have 4 lbs cap.