Here you go

pilothouse king said:

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Say what you may about these, one crossed the Atlantic Ocean as a marketing stunt back when they were new. ...

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Sorry. Not for me. I prefer decks near floating-dock level and a bridge closer to the center of rotation, for obvious reasons.

markpierce said:

Sorry. Not for me. I prefer decks near floating-dock level and a bridge closer to the center of rotation.

I would have to say that the Cargile is better at being at dock level NO matter the dock heights. High tide OR low tide, or floating dock level (we don't have many of those here in Florida), or seawall height. That old girl has VARIETY of levels to choose from.:lol:

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Hope you all like/prefer your boats as much as I do mine.

I like a boat that is a bit unusual, not mass produced, and doesn't fit into most categories. But I still want it seaworthy. (That Coronado has 3 out of 4)

That is why mine fits me perfectly. Not really a sail boat, not a cruiser, not a trawler; just my boat, and it does what I ask of her.

I hang around TF just because you guys have better quality criticism compared to most forums.

>I like our house in the inside but the outside looks really cheap and "bare bones".<

I think I know why.

When we were kids in the 1st grade and drew a house picture it was usually a black crayon for the outline and then colored in the rest with other crayons.

The trim today on many houses is white as is the window and door framing.
This creates the cartoon look from the 1st grade.

Most new houses look as if they are set pieces for a kids model RR set , not homes for adults.

Manufactured homes are the future , far better built than most stick homes.

They can be created to most any standard , Miami Dade or Vermont R 70 roof.

The problem with most is the same as the pictured sailboat , someone cheaps out and does not higher a designer (NA) that has some artistic sense.

With modest bucks spent on the exterior trim , a stacked box manufactured house can be as pretty as any other.

Sadly many homes are designed from the inside out , so things like window placement come from the interior designer , not from a fellow with a good eye designing the exterior.

Same as boats where mere internal volume is a goal , because owners cant differentiate between mere volume and a useful interior .

Thank thread creep (and this one hasn't creeped as much as many) for some really good and interesting conversation here. And AusCan let fly w the best "I hang around TF just because you guys have better quality criticism compared to most forums" remark Iv'e heard since Marin packed his bags.

And PK you're right there's something magic about unusual things that (no matter how good) common things just won't measure up to.

And you're right Ron wer'e bad boys to make fun of "that boat" but "making fun" could be a good thing as long as it's not at someone else's expense. So whose boat is it?

eyschulman said:

Its not that this ex sail boat appeals to me, but things can be done to change its appearance. If you are going to go funky why not do it up. My art is terrible but what I am trying to show is vertical wood planking T&G and a forward sloped front of house with two large windows and a small riding -motor sail rig.

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Sorry I'm not near my Photoshop program to enhance your idea, ….I see what you mean. Still, the roof is overwhelming and I think it was Tad Roberts that said the shape, size and style of windows is so critical to the character of any boat, or any modification for that matter. Since Tad's statement, I've been working on my own windows.

For all the talk, she's someone's home and is actually being used most likely. How many boats (beautiful ones!) do you see docked, never leaving the slip, or worse yet, anchored and abandoned?

There's an abandoned boat here in Carrabelle that sank just last month. That's sad.

I know mine isn't spiffy -- I named her Seaweed 'cause she kind of grows on you -- and the sleek sports fish and the like... well, they are gorgeous. Mine's Seaweed. That one's Moss. It'll take longer, but from a look see, she's got great decks to walk around, a covered aft deck, and a place in the pilothouse to enjoy life afloat.

She's not ugly. She's got character.
In my opinion that is.

And she'll blow sideways in a wind -- but that's only going to be a problem when underway, or docking.

manyboats said:

The plywood I bought at HD was 15/32nd. I suspect it wasn't made in the US. Does anyone know?

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Eric, without the grade and type plywood, it is hard to say. If it is C-D X it is probably southern yellow pine plywood. When I first got in the business we got our plywood from the west coast. In fact I bought many a car load from Crown Z, Anacortes Veneer, Roseburg, and many others. Today the South ships SYP plywood to the NW. You can look at the stamp on the back. It should have the mill #, so that you can look up where it was made.

FF said:

>I like our house in the inside but the outside looks really cheap and "bare bones".<

Manufactured homes are the future , far better built than most stick homes.

.

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Really?

I think common opinion is not with you on this one.

Manufactured homes are cheaper... that is the only reason they sell. period.

and they make really good tornado fodder!

HOLLYWOOD

There are all levels of manufactured housing. The well built ones are not necessarily cheaper than stick built. It is hoped that the speed of the onsite build out will offset some of the cost. They are really useful at remote building sites. The good ones have to be strongly built. They can be lifted by crane without even cracking the sheetrock.

Manufactured homes are cheaper... that is the only reason they sell. period.

SO WRONG,

First they actually need to be far stronger as the ride down the road if never smooth , so a 2 or 3 load must be absorbed , with out loosing shape.

Second they actually come out square and true , which can not be said for sticks & staples , ask any tile guy how many rooms are square.

With indoor construction it is easy to follow the omproved standards for hurricane construction the gov puts out.

Studs are glued to the outer sheathing if desired and the sheathing is easily doubled , and glued staggered to the first layer.

All FEMA designs for hurricane resistance. And LOWER insurance costa forever.

The box units allow multiple cables to run down from the roof peak , to anchor in the footings.

FEMA again. Keeps the roof on.

The joy of this is there is minor extra labor , so its a simple option for the builder., for those with the buyers knowledge to pay for the option.

Sure a guy with a hammer could do similar work , but time is $$$ and lifting extra siding and gluing it on is a PIA compared to dropping it on to a flat wall. The siding is delivered on a cart, the glue from a gun (not a cartrige) , and simply flopped in place and nailed.Yes plywood instead of chip board is also an option.

Adding the required hurricane ties is also easier with the wall laying down flat , to meet the various codes.

AS most buildings are air cond , the workers have a far easier time with wiring and plumbing , not being drenched or baked.

Finally the fact that many many of these houses are similar makes ordering material in VOLUME! far easier (lowers cost when purchased by a rail car compared to a pick up) , and the repeat of worker skills makes mistakes less common than with sticks.

For the tree-huggers the waste is minor , compared to the dumpster loads of the rush rush subcontractors.

With most houses being assembled and dry in a single day , the usual damage from the elements as 3 -4 months of cut and fit are avoided.

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder - but damn!

Some of our trawlers have lines that appeal to, shall we say, a limited but discerning public - however, there are limits.

This little number caught my eye while browsing the eBay listings the other day - it would, wouldn't it! Can't help feeling the designer realised he had drawn a butt-ugly boat and kept adding outrageous shapes in the hopes of a cure.

Some of the housing that faired the best during Hurricane Andrew around Homestead were the basically plywood boxes built by Habitat for Humanity. Tied down hip roofs and walls with strong sheer bracing is tough to blow apart. Much modern modular housing is built on this principle, but with good aesthetic design that makes it hard to tell from conventional construction.

Thread drift but.....

Some manufactured homes are much better than some stick built.

Some stick built if the builder does what it takes (none around south Jersey that I see) can be better.

Just like boats. Some production boats can be better than almost anything built...but there are some one offs that blow everything else away.

Generalizations are just that...boats or houses.....be careful what you say or defend if you want to come across as knowledgeable.

Certainly many custom home builders will defend their product...but watching one that's still open to weather get drenched day after day compared to one built into a factory makes one wonder which is better????....good builders make sure the important steps are protected...but only a few where I am.

Talk about thread drift. BUT speaking of homes, I picked up a German client from the Airport, and as we're driving to the boat, he's looking around-very quietly, and finally asked "how long are these houses in American designed to last?"... I thought about it, and said "probably 30 years, as long as the 1st mortgage?"... he said- "that's what it looks like. In Germany where I'm a contractor we have codes that state 600 years, our walls are thick, yours look so thin". I told him this is a fast expanding country and up in Atlanta sky scrapers are built and torn down within 15 years. Of course-(speaking of Germans) it's why I've always (well since I could first afford one in my early 30's!) been a Mercedes man. (see, I'm going to drift this further) I used to own classic Caddies, but once I discovered Mercedes- I realized what crap they were. I could take the dash out of a Cadillac in 30 minutes taking my time, my first 280 SE- I discovered it took me a good ALL DAY long just to access the heater controls!! NO reason to build a car THAT good, but they did, and do. At over 100 mph, quiet and solid as a rock. There, from home built boats to houses, to Germans, to cars. lol--oh, that Bluewater above: Why do I have an urge to get out my sling shot?

I remember checking out a brand new $500K stick built home a few years ago. It was the "model home".

As I walked up the front steps I couldn't help but notice that the weatherproof cover over the porch electrical outlet was installed upside down.

As I walked up the stairs I noticed that the trim on the octagonal window was off by nearly 1/2 inch at one corner.

Stick built homes are no better than the materials and craftsmanship used to build them. In these days of semi-skilled and possibly illegal alien labor and piece work pay, those factory built homes look better and better.

pilothouse king said:

Talk about thread drift. BUT speaking of homes, I picked up a German client from the Airport, and as we're driving to the boat, he's looking around-very quietly, and finally asked "how long are these houses in American designed to last?"... I thought about it, and said "probably 30 years, as long as the 1st mortgage?"... he said- "that's what it looks like. In Germany where I'm a contractor we have codes that state 600 years, our walls are thick, yours look so thin". I told him this is a fast expanding country and up in Atlanta sky scrapers are built and torn down within 15 years. Of course-(speaking of Germans) it's why I've always (well since I could first afford one in my early 30's!) been a Mercedes man. (see, I'm going to drift this further) I used to own classic Caddies, but once I discovered Mercedes- I realized what crap they were. I could take the dash out of a Cadillac in 30 minutes taking my time, my first 280 SE- I discovered it took me a good ALL DAY long just to access the heater controls!! NO reason to build a car THAT good, but they did, and do. At over 100 mph, quiet and solid as a rock. There, from home built boats to houses, to Germans, to cars. lol--oh, that Bluewater above: Why do I have an urge to get out my sling shot?

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And the Germans are still only so smart...

Lot's of Victorian homes around the country that were nearly 100 years old and still had plenty of life in them have been torn down and McMansions built in their place...why????...because that's what the "population wanted".

So any expense going into many homes that would have them last more than 100 years may just be a waste of money.

I love some German engineering...but their view of the world has been proven wrong every century and sometimes twice in one..... as long as man has been around.

OK, here goes.

I have driven Mercedes for 44 years. I have owned several boats over 40 years. I have worked for some of the largest building material manufacturers in the US. In fact, one had a division that did manufactured housing both panelized and modular. I have been a licensed builder for 40 years. So, I have a little experience from where I speak about these subjects.

Mercedes are great cars, but because of electronics not as good as they once were. As PK said, my first 1970 280SE was built like a tank. My 280SEL 4.5 was a dream car. Sabres are great boats. Manufactured housing can be of great quality. I will put our stick built product up against any of the best. That has kept us in business 40 years. Never started out to be the biggest, but offer the best product we could even if it was a limited market.

Quality is where you find it be it cars, boats, or houses. Buyer beware!

psneeld said:

And the Germans are still only so smart...



I love some German engineering...but their view of the world has been proven wrong every century and sometimes twice in one..... as long as man has been around.

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Their view wasn't proven wrong, they were just outnumbered then by others who hadn't then learned what they knew. A Brazilian was over today lamenting how Brazil is turning into Venezuela as (coming soon to America) those who vote for a living outnumber those who work for a living.

And as Forest Gump said-"that's all I'm going to say about that".

pilothouse king said:

, 300SEL 6.3 (never had suspension problems either!)

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PK, you must have had a little guy in the trunk with a bicycle pump.

I am licensed in Florida, but have only done commercial work down there. Unfortunately, I don't know the metal shops in the area.

Back in the day , I has a MB 300SL Roadster.

This was the roadster version of the famous Gull Wing.

A 1970 price of $107 wholesale, for just the distributor cap was enough to say forgetaboutit , and sell the beauty.

After all it was my daily ride , not a collector item back then.

FF said:

Back in the day , I has a MB 300SL Roadster.

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Hmm. Back in my day, the best I could do is a 190SL for 600 bucks, but later I did have a 230 and a 250 Coupe. I looked around quite a while for a low-mileage 300CDT but they're too collectable now. A 280SL wouldn't hurt my feelings.

Back to the original post though, I looked back through the archives and found this sailboat that a couple de-keeled and wanted a pilothouse design low enough to clear bridges in German canals. This is the Photoshop rendition they liked best. I moved back to the States without seeing the finished product, but its demonstrates that a pilothouse doesn't always have to offend the original form. Click on photo for larger picture.

I've never cared for MB. "Back in the day" my best friend had a 53 300 sedan and my 48 Roadmaster Buick could run circles around his IRS Benz.

Thanks for this post. I think a converted sailboat would make a good seaworthy and very efficient trawler. As I've said I was headed in that direction at one point.

We drive an Escalade, a Lexus RX 300, and a Mercedes CLK for fun. I am not too excited about German engineering. That Mercedes is so complicated it's ridiculous. Two sets of lug nuts (well, lug bolts, not nuts) just to change a tire. If that over-engineering got you solid reliability that would be one thing, but if I had to go on a long trip I would trust the Lexus first, Escalade second, and the Mercedes a distant last to get me there.

After a year I still can't figure out how to set the climate controls, we can't turn off the cell phone system trouble report light, and we can't figure out how to get the tray properly closed in the center console.

kthoennes said:

We drive an Escalade, a Lexus RX 300, and a Mercedes CLK for fun. I am not too excited about German engineering. That Mercedes is so complicated it's ridiculous. Two sets of lug nuts (well, lug bolts, not nuts) just to change a tire. If that over-engineering got you solid reliability that would be one thing, but if I had to go on a long trip I would trust the Lexus first, Escalade second, and the Mercedes a distant last to get me there.

After a year I still can't figure out how to set the climate controls, we can't turn off the cell phone system trouble report light, and we can't figure out how to get the tray properly closed in the center console.

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But is it still FUN?
They are overly complicated for sure, that was my earlier point, but by golly do the things last. As far as the cup holder pop up tray in the console: you have to first push down that incredibly engineered folding plastic drink holder first with your finger only on one point, then the cover will easily close IF the drink holder latches. Unfortunately plastic parts with many springs is a recipe for failure. Even back in their cars in the 60s and 70s, they would install plastic heater control handles mounted in super well engineered mounts-that would repeatedly break, requiring a good 8 hours to replace. But when you're quietly rolling at 150 mph you forget the plastic. Mercedes are like your girlfriends and wives-you gotta keep reminding yourself they're capable of being a lot of fun if operated properly. The Lexus is like the cleaning woman-reliable.

What's this "cleaning woman sh#t?

I must have the wrong address.

manyboats said:

What's this "cleaning woman sh#t?

I must have the wrong address.

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You have a Escalade, Lexus, and a Benz, you have a cleaning woman. BTW- I married mine 4 years ago, and it was the best decision I ever made.

Cargile Cutter Cruisers

hollywood8118 said:

I am not sure I totally understand... we are still talking about the boat pictured below correct?

So am I to assume that you think all the stuff H.Depot sells is crap?
Or that all homes are made out of crap?
Or?

The some of the same basic materials are used on the cheapest runabout as the most expensive Nordhavn, but is a different way.

I guess I was not clear enough, the builder or the below boat clearly did not have the "eye" when it came to design, he could of made the vessel less offensive to the eye had he known how. Sometimes home builders of boats take a inexpensive starter hull and mod it to their preference and make it worth less then the original hull.

I walk past a Cargile cutter boat on my way to my boat.. a production boat that the dealers that sold them originally must of been barely able to keep from laughing in the face of prospective buyers.

There are plenty of beautiful boats out there.. no reason to own a fugly one!
HOLLYWOOD

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Okay, I realize this is an older thread, but having owned a Cargile Cutter Cruiser, I had to respond.

The late Allen Cargile, of Nashville, TN, made his living designing and building houseboats that were once very popular on the rivers and TVA lakes of Tennessee. I had the pleasure of meeting him by phone while researching Cargile Cutters, after seeing one while on a trip to Montana. He was a fascinating and gracious man that was more than willing to help in my search for one. Until the day he died, I would call Allen every time we cruised our Cargile, just to let him know how much we were enjoying his boat.

After his death, I had the pleasure of meeting his son, who had married one of our daughter's sorority sisters. I learned that on a family vacation to Key West, each day his dad would slowly cruise his Boston Whaler past the Coast Guard cutters at the base in Key West. As he cruised by, he stared at the high bows of the cutters. A few weeks after they returned home, Allen walked out of his "design room" with a carved, wooden model of the Cargile Cutter Cruiser he intended to build. He then registered a patent for the "cupped chine hull" that would carry the boat.

The beauty of a boat, like the beauty of a woman, is all in the eyes of the beholder. Having grown up around boats, there was something about the Cargile Cutter that intrigued me. Like many of you posting about the boat, my son and daughter thought it was ugly. The kids used to joke that when I died, they would not fight over who got the boat, they would fight over who had to take it! The argument ended after our son used it for his honeymoon cruise from Charleston, SC to Morehead City, NC. To his surprise, the boat seemed incredibly roomy for a 30' boat, was comfortable, had storage galore, and in his words "was very utilitarian." To him, that made it extremely easy to maintain.

From 1999 until 2007, the boat served as my efficient and comfortable floating office. When I took over management of a local attraction, the time we had to spend on "SunSmiles" became less and less. In 2012, I was tracked down and contacted by a young man in Portland, OR. Although the boat was not for sale, he wanted to buy it. He said he father bought one when the young man was 5 years old, and he had fond memories of "growing up" on the boat. His daughter was turning five, had seen a picture of "SunSmiles" as he searched for a Cargile, and told him THAT was the boat she wanted. He wanted her to "grow up" with the same fond memories his dad's boat. Sadly, during delivery to Portland, the boat was destroyed 23 miles out of Laramie, WY when the boat and two tractor trailers were hit by what the highway patrol called a "hurricane force wind."

As a previous owner of a 30' Cargile Cutter Cruiser, I can honestly say it was a fun, comfortable boat with tons of storage for multi-day cruising. And for what it's worth, it attracted the attention of owners of much larger boats at every marina we entered. Those who boarded her were amazed at how large it "felt" when they were onboard.

Well I must say I enjoy the look of most of the famous designers, however I have to admit I am both lazy and a great believer in form follows function.

After we decided a 33ft LOA 90/90 boat with a 55 ft mast on deck might not be a great canal/lock cruiser, I started to look for 40 and esp 50 ft US Navy launches.

We found LUCY in Maine and stopped looking .

However the first plan was a 50 ft Utility with a de framed Airstream or similar just bolted in place.

A finished interior , FW and black+ grey tanks installed , air cond and a noisemaker , with good propane reefer , usually for $3,000 to $5,000.


No beauty for sure , but from INSIDE the first class build , with almost zero work would make up for the fact that Ida Lewis would never have a guest mooring for me.