Merged:Northern Yacht/Oops

markpierce said:

My guess is that the transport trailer failed, resulting in the boat leaning and then rolling over well before being fully in the water.

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On one hand this seems a very reasonable explanation. But wouldn't the boat have been more high and dry if it toppled over before being fully in the water? And one guy who was on the boat said they were operating the thrusters.

launch video posted here. Begins at about 2:20:

I just watched the last video posted by harbor950 and found myself screaming "Stop! Stop! Stop!" Someone will be having recurring nightmares for not saying that while it was being lowered down the ramp.

I also fell in love with this fella

Northern Marine 58 Limit Seiner N58 Launch F/V Optimus | fisherynation.com

N4712 said:

After reading all this, I figured I'd look'em up. And I must say I LOVE their 58' F/V. View attachment 30049

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harbor950 said:

launch video posted here. Begins at about 2:20:

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Watching that was painful.

We were at the Anacortes Trawler Fest, and the night this happened, we were at dinner. We had been eating dinner with a group of people for the last couple of nights and one of the people in the group is in the boat business.

He was late to dinner Saturday night because he was watching a big yacht being put into the water. I would have asked him some questions but he was not near me but I heard he was watching the launch of a boat that was around 100 feet long. We finished dinner and he went back to watch the rest of the launch. It appears that while we were walking back to our hotel the boat was put in the water and rolled. We were only a few blocks from where this happened.

We really feel sorry for the people involved. To watch your hard work and dreams roll over like that is just awful.

Later,
Dan

The new video is interesting. look at the port stern as the boat goes into the water... at first I thought they had started a genset, but I am not sure that is what I see. Look at all the bubbles at the waterline near the low windows.. one of the windows left open?... nobody is that remiss are they?
Still a sad sight.. the worker that puts his hands on his head says it all
HOLLYWOOD

hollywood8118 said:

The new video is interesting. look at the port stern as the boat goes into the water... at first I thought they had started a genset, but I am not sure that is what I see. Look at all the bubbles at the waterline near the low windows.. one of the windows left open?... nobody is that remiss are they?
Still a sad sight.. the worker that puts his hands on his head says it all
HOLLYWOOD

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Worse than a sad sight as one person was very close to losing their life.

Thanks for posting the video, quite hard to watch. I know some of the guys that worked on this and its quite a heart breaker for everyone involved.

Like BandB, I was trying to find out who did the engineering and NA and found the old captains blog archives that were deleted. If anyone is interested looks like he had quite a hand in every aspect of the design and engineering.

Complete Collection:
Expedition Yacht Building | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Expedition Yacht Blood Baron Renderings | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Project Blood Baron with Northern Marine | The Yacht Captain's Blog

Custom or Custom? | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Over a thousand changes… | The Yacht Captain's Blog (Aaron Pufal)

Blood Baron in print! | The Yacht Captain's Blog

"applying every engineering and design wish is an very much a challenge."

"Northern Marine has my vote for a new build at this point because they are open to my changes to the superstructure."

"From the styling and actual structure to the smallest engineering detail I have almost complete control of this build"

All quotes from the captain about the build. It looked like he was really enjoying designing that boat? Does anyone know if the over-engineering line from his open letter could have been a factor in him being let go? Sounds like he lifted the curtain a bit on an internal struggle with the build.

I think BandB hit the nail on the head with what he stated about overambitious owner's wanting more and more and the captain who should've been telling them no being part of the problem. It will be interesting to see the stability study by the coast guard and if over engineering the bridge deck played a role in the capsizing.

-Jacht Junky

2 things....

1. A boat launched is not necessarily finished and ready for sea (something so many forgot early in the discussion).

2. The video "suggests" that "seemingly" floating boat, and that it doesn't "seem" to be hung up.... is still not trying to right itself . That suggests it should have had some more ballast or the launching "list" from being hung up was exaggerated by some source of flooding (just on deck or even internally). The bubbles pointed out may lead in that direction....

-Jacht Junky

Several hours ago, a strange chihuahua lover who has a business relationship with Northern Marine posted an edited video of the launch on YouTube.
You have now, as a previously unknown poster, made a very informative post about the former captain.
I think it would be helpful if you can confirm whether or not you are in any way involved with any of the parties.

It appears the bow was floating off the front dolly before she took her severe roll. This makes it look like a ballast problem and NOT a launch method problem.

hollywood8118 said:

The new video is interesting. look at the port stern as the boat goes into the water... at first I thought they had started a genset, but I am not sure that is what I see. Look at all the bubbles at the waterline near the low windows.. one of the windows left open?... nobody is that remiss are they?
Still a sad sight.. the worker that puts his hands on his head says it all
HOLLYWOOD

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Perhaps I'm missing something, but it appears to me that the boat is starting to float free and as it does it turns over. That would suggest a major boo-boo in calculation on ballast and not a launch problem, as has been suggested. Who knows, but this reads cluster eff from start to finish.

There are recent posts on YachtForums that indicate the transom engine room door was open at launch and at that angle...


Northern Marine 90' Yacht Capsizes Upon Launch...! - Page 10 - YachtForums.Com

My unified theory: the kid with the bottle set up a destabilizing harmonic which--combined with the absence of ballast, flat-tires on the launch equipment, plethora of windows at the waterline and blinding hard hats worn by the workers--ultimately doomed the Baden. When the CG report is finally issued, remember: you heard it here first.

harbor950 said:

-Jacht Junky

Several hours ago, a strange chihuahua lover who has a business relationship with Northern Marine posted an edited video of the launch on YouTube.
You have now, as a previously unknown poster, made a very informative post about the former captain.
I think it would be helpful if you can confirm whether or not you are in any way involved with any of the parties.

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PilotHouse

Don't know anything about a strange chihuahua lover but I am not associated with them or NM or any of the parties that built this yacht. When I lived in Seattle I knew some of the guys doing tooling at Northern and they eventually became NEWY/NM after I moved abroad.

The blog was wiped clean I found this interesting. I thought it odd that someone would erase years of blog posts after clearly having so much pride in their work (guess the lawyers told him). A sour situation all around.

I have been a long time reader of this forum but joined specifically today because I have been following this thread and when BanB said the yacht captain deleted his blog I wanted to find out what he deleted and why. Still don't know why.

This accident hits all of us who have worked in the NW industry right in the gut, and a lot of people are having to dust off their resumes once again. I want to know why and like the rest of you I am trying to find everything I can on the web.
-JJ

JachtJunky said:

I have been a long time reader of this forum but joined specifically today because I have been following this thread and when BanB said the yacht captain deleted his blog I wanted to find out what he deleted and why. Still don't know why.

-JJ

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He deleted it and then replaced it removing the references to his Unlimited License and other references to Captains license that one can only assume from removing them might have been exaggerated. Now where that fits further is if he'd exaggerate or lie on that, perhaps his grandiose appraisal of his work and ability throughout his blog could be taken with a grain of salt as well. Obviously someone had a differing opinion in firing him. So, bluntly, while everything he's saying may be true, he also has a definite reason to inflate himself and take shots at others in this.

harbor950 said:

There are recent posts on YachtForums that indicate the transom engine room door was open at launch and at that angle...


Northern Marine 90' Yacht Capsizes Upon Launch...! - Page 10 - YachtForums.Com

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Yes, there are photos showing it open. Did water enter? Was that part of the problem? Many answers to come. But boat tilted, water enters and provides more weight to the lower side, and you now have a roll. What we haven't really heard at this point that I'm sure the Coast Guard has is from the six on board describing what was going on at the time. What we've gotten is mostly very grateful to have been dragged out and to be out alive which is the most important thing.

The speculation continues...

I have a friend who works nearby in Anacortes in the boat business. Very close by.

He was there but is not part of the northern team. He was just there, it was a big deal in the small boat community.

He said that boat will never float.

He said yesterday they tried to release the straps and the boat tried to turn turtle again.

ksanders said:

The speculation continues...

I have a friend who works nearby in Anacortes in the boat business. Very close by.

He was there but is not part of the northern team. He was just there, it was a big deal in the small boat community.

He said that boat will never float.

He said yesterday they tried to release the straps and the boat tried to turn turtle again.

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Well, that probably was the Coast Guard and Insurer trying to get a stability test. Now, the doesn't mean it couldn't be made to float with enough properly placed ballast. However, most of the ones I've seen that required so much to make them stable, never got beyond marginally stable.

Good information from your friend. Need some updates from some who dock there.

BandB said:

Well, that probably was the Coast Guard and Insurer trying to get a stability test. Now, the doesn't mean it couldn't be made to float with enough properly placed ballast. However, most of the ones I've seen that required so much to make them stable, never got beyond marginally stable.

Good information from your friend. Need some updates from some who dock there.

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That's why I called him. I figured he would have been there.

I spent a week at that very dock inspecting and signing off on the engines when my boat was getting its refit done a couple years ago.

Edelweiss said:

Because I've never read USCG Maritine Incident Investigation Report where it stated. . . ."Ultimately the vessel foundered due to the popular opinion that it was aesthetically ugly!!

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I can see where this thread is heading and I must interject that there hasn't been a single case of a KK Manatee capsizing at launch!

You put enough ballast in it and you raise the waterline, bye-bye lower windows. From the pics I saw, there doesn't seem to be enough wet area under that boat to hold it up properly.

eyschulman said:

I always wonder if boats that tall are more stable upside down. I also suspect in a fair breeze they can sail. The view interior room and luxury must be great.

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Sadly it wouldn't be the first time a top heavy ship like that would turn over. I wonder if they placed enough ballast in the right areas?

I see they used a trailer for such a large ship. That's the one thing we NEVER used. A marine railway is far more efficient and safer. If there's a problem on the launch, you can bring it back up without turtling!

Greetings,
What the heck is at the bow just below the water line and in line with the bulbous bow? Some sort of fin arrangement?

healhustler said:

I can see where this thread is heading and I must interject that there hasn't been a single case of a KK Manatee capsizing at launch!

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The manatee is like a pug so ugly its cute. A lot of people own pugs and there it is not even about the interior room.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
What the heck is at the bow just below the water line and in line with the bulbous bow? Some sort of fin arrangement?

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Maybe its all about the wrong anchor and it being placed too high. Yes strange thingy on bow or are we looking at roof line of boat behind and an unpainted area around thrust-er??

There are no fins at the bow.