Building a Nordhavn

It is indeed a long time, and yes, it happens after the boat reaches the US. PAE will typically quote a shorter time, but from everything I've seen it takes 2-3 months in reality. But in PAE's defense, many times that's because the buyer piles on a whole bunch of other add-on stuff. For example, sometimes the electronics are pre-installed at the yard. They aren't fully wired up and aren't even powered on, let alone tested, but everything is mounted, wires are pulled, and some are hooked up. That makes finishing the electronics much faster once the boat is sate-side. Other boats have all the electronics installed after the boat arrives, which of course takes much longer. And throughout the process you are fighting for the time and attention of trades who have multiple, conflicting priorities. In that respect it's no different than getting any work done in a boat yard. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will all be done in 6 weeks, but I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, they do basic smoke tests at the yard, but no extensive run-in. There is a test tank, but the boat never goes in open water. The engines are fired, generator run, hydraulics tested. I think they run the Air Con, but am not certain. It's enough to find gross failures, but not subtle ones.

twistedtree said:

It is indeed a long time, and yes, it happens after the boat reaches the US. PAE will typically quote a shorter time, but from everything I've seen it takes 2-3 months in reality. But in PAE's defense, many times that's because the buyer piles on a whole bunch of other add-on stuff. For example, sometimes the electronics are pre-installed at the yard. They aren't fully wired up and aren't even powered on, let alone tested, but everything is mounted, wires are pulled, and some are hooked up. That makes finishing the electronics much faster once the boat is sate-side. Other boats have all the electronics installed after the boat arrives, which of course takes much longer. And throughout the process you are fighting for the time and attention of trades who have multiple, conflicting priorities. In that respect it's no different than getting any work done in a boat yard. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will all be done in 6 weeks, but I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, they do basic smoke tests at the yard, but no extensive run-in. There is a test tank, but the boat never goes in open water. The engines are fired, generator run, hydraulics tested. I think they run the Air Con, but am not certain. It's enough to find gross failures, but not subtle ones.

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Very interesting and thanks for sharing. It's interesting to see how different builders work. I know some who do everything possible before shipping and then take a month in the US. My only direct personal experience on building a custom or semi-custom boat has been a US builder and so doing what where was never a factor. The only non-US boat I've owned was a stock boat. I know a few importers who take a month or six weeks to commission. However, some of them definitely need to take longer based on the issues new boat owners have post delivery.

I think the experience of visiting the plant as they build your boat is very rewarding.

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of the things that need to be done as part of commissioning, just to give a sense. This list will vary with every boat. In general, I think we have a particularly short list.

- Test every system, switch, light, indicator, alarm, plug, etc. Basically test, verify, and correct everything delivered with the boat.

- Electronics guys come aboard, figure out what the yard did, then go through one component at a time to complete the installation of each, setup and configure it, test, etc. This also includes installing any remaining items. On my boat that will include FLIR cameras (you can't ship them to China), KVH (too much $$ in a small fragile package to risk damage), NSO brain (not available until now), intercom/ohone system (wires pulled, but no equipment installed), TVs, AppleTVs, BluRay, etc., possibly a stereo system, tap, terminate, and connect the N2K bus, Configure the N2K bus, complete wiring of radars, sounders, etc., install and wire remaining monitors (one sent to yard so all holes can be cut), install, setup, and configure 2 computers, install monitoring cameras

- Commission the water maker, including checking/setting all the proper pressures, flow rates, etc.

- Complete the exhaust system for the diesel heat (partially installed at yard), pressure test plumbing, file, fire and test, fixing along the way as needed. Be sure heat exchanger to head domestic HW works correctly, and be sure heat exchanger to draw waste heat from main engine works properly.

- Adjust and set up the hydraulics. Various pressure and flow regulators need to be verified and tested, and the stabilizers need to be set up. Some of this might have been done as part of the yard testing, but it still needs to be sea trialed.

- Locate dinghy and mount chocks.

- Install life raft

- install kayak racks

- Have carpet made and installed

- Have shades/curtains made and installed

- Have storm plates made and installed

- Have boarding ladder/steps made and installed

- Install dive compressor

- Install utility compressor (inflatable fenders, etc)

- Install racks for dive tanks

- Figure out how we are going to contain and store all the supplies, spare parts, and personal crap

- Sea trial and sea trial trying to shake out problems.

- Go through and change all the light bulbs to LEDs

You can see it's a lot of stuff. My trips to the yard have surfaced a number of issue that, while easy to fix at the yard, would have been a major pain to deal with back in the US. Each of those will save time at commissioning, but I'm sure I didn't catch them all.

twistedtree said:

You can see it's a lot of stuff. My trips to the yard have surfaced a number of issue that, while easy to fix at the yard, would have been a major pain to deal with back in the US. Each of those will save time at commissioning, but I'm sure I didn't catch them all.

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Thanks for sharing it all. It's interesting to see how different builders do things. It struck me on several of the electronics being added in the US how they may very well me models that didn't exist three months earlier and most definitely models different than those when you started the build.

As someone whose career was in manufacturing, albeit a very different industry, I find the processes very interesting. I also find the control of those processes to be a major component of quality. I'm sure Nordhavn has figured out quite well over the years what is best done where.

Regardless of how small they might have been, I'm sure everything you worked out on your trips over would have taken far more time and cost later, if even feasible later.

There are a lot of semi-custom builders but they all define "semi-custom" slightly different just by the way they do things. Nordhavn customizes more than many while still maintaining the basic boat and working within their comfort zone. There's one builder that the running joke always was that their semi-custom meant you got to pick the color of the sofa fabric. Then one long time trusted builder who allowed a customer to customize to the point that it was far outside anything they'd done or knew how to do and the boat turned into a disaster and a law suit.

The building of a boat in this size range and type is on the most extreme edge of manufacturing in terms of complexity. Far more components than most anything. Automobile manufacturing is comparatively simple. Automobile is comparable to building an 18 foot runabout. Even the specifications on a house are less. The only industry that comes to the top of my head as comparable is the airplane industry. But even there they build many identical for each airline, so every single one doesn't vary. Some industries that call themselves manufacturers really do nothing more than assemble a few parts the exact same way thousands of times. Boat building is like home building on steroids or something. I remember the first time we saw just the check list of decisions we needed to make, my wife said a couple of choice words and broke out giggling.

It took 2 - 3 months to complete the commissioning on my boat, and the list of work was comparable to yours. One mistake I made was to take the boat (not a Nord., although I came close to ordering one) before I was satisfied that everything was 100%. At the time, the thinking was that I would do a shake down cruise and make an extensive list of stuff that needs correction, then bring it back for "final" commissioning. I was also anxious to get the boat so it wasn't hard to talk me into that. Unfortunately, it didn't quite work out the way I had hoped.

Likening it to building a house is the best I can come up with too, but it's several times more complicated.

You have everything that goes into building, furnishing, and decorating a house.

Plus you build the electric utility, inter-tie to other utilities (shore power), and battery-backup the whole thing.

Plus you build the water works for a place with no freshwater.

Plus you build the sewer utility system and treatment works.

Plus it needs to be able to move itself every day to a new location, including rigorous shake, vibe, and drop testing.

Anything else while we are at it?

MYTraveler said:

It took 2 - 3 months to complete the commissioning on my boat, and the list of work was comparable to yours. One mistake I made was to take the boat (not a Nord., although I came close to ordering one) before I was satisfied that everything was 100%. At the time, the thinking was that I would do a shake down cruise and make an extensive list of stuff that needs correction, then bring it back for "final" commissioning. I was also anxious to get the boat so it wasn't hard to talk me into that. Unfortunately, it didn't quite work out the way I had hoped.

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Yes, I've been cautioned about that by others as well. It's such common sense to not close the deal until your are fully satisfied, but I can see how irresistible it would be to just get going. I have several notes to myself as reminders not to do that. We'll see how well I resist.

twistedtree said:

Yes, I've been cautioned about that by others as well. It's such common sense to not close the deal until your are fully satisfied, but I can see how irresistible it would be to just get going. I have several notes to myself as reminders not to do that. We'll see how well I resist.

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Which people also do on houses. Builder says, "Oh just a little bit of touch up and landscaping. Won't take any time at all". And builder never seen again.

Now, honestly, I wouldn't expect issues like that from Nordhavn. Still I'd resist full acceptance. Assuming you are not having a surveyor? That often is a controlling point in the process. Even with new boats we have had surveys.

But there are some horrific stories and sizable lawsuits on boats where the initial problems never got corrected. One in particular was sold with a guarantee of Veritas Unrestricted and that wasn't done nor done ever by the builder. Never would pass Veritas standards. It is my understanding the purchaser did eventually get it but not sure. Purchaser also won a sizable suit.

Still, you've chosen a builder who has an excellent reputation in that regard. They don't have a reputation of delivering a problem free boat, but do have one of addressing any issues and that's the important thing. Worst thing is a problem shows itself a month or six weeks later and the builder tries to say it had to be something you did or send you to the equipment manufacturer.

That's why on any new boat it is so important to choose the builder well. That's what separates one from the other, far more than design. Do you know the builder builds quality boats and do they stand behind their product. Nordhavn purchasers seem to be Nordhavn fans forever. Speaks well.

Always interesting to check the used boat market when getting ready to buy a new one. If there are recently built boats for sale, the question is why. With a few builders such as Nordhavn you find it's to get another Nordhavn or it's age or death. Always a good sign.

I do believe purchasers of new boats need to be more aware of their builders reputation, any legal entanglements, and how their business is going both operationally and financially. A lot of people ending up owning builders because it was the only way to get their yacht finished. In today's world so much information is out there. And if after finding out about their questionable ethics or honesty, you still choose to buy from them, don't be shocked when it happens to you. If they're struggling to stay alive, don't be surprised if they cut corners.

I'm not a Nordhavn owner and doubt I ever will be as not they type that most interests us. However, I loved reading the very open, honest article they wrote about how they handled things when the bottom dropped out of the market. Also recent rumblings about personnel changes in Dana Point but I have no reason to believe that is material to their operation.

I think you'll love your boat. Don't all your Nordhavn people. lol

It's such common sense to not close the deal until your are fully satisfied, but I can see how irresistible it would be to just get going. I have several notes to myself as reminders not to do that. We'll see how well I resist.

Not handing over that last 5% or 10% gives amazing leverage , the seller will hang on your every word , and even take notes.

After you pay for it , the sellers phone may only take messages .

BandB said:

I know what he means. I was just shocked that it takes them 2 to 3 months. First I would have expected most of that to be done before shipping. But even if not, I just wouldn't have expected so long. Just comparing to builders I've dealt with. Now, nothing wrong with it taking longer if that's the way they end up with a good product and the buyer knows the time from the start.

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I spoke with a N62 owner in Mexico last year... it took them 2 years to work out all the bugs in commissioning.. and that is with a Nordhavn.. I cannot imagine a lesser company and all the hassles.
Needless to say he was pissed.. but the boat looked great.

HOLLYWOOD

Quick update - the build is complete! She's strapped into her cradle (the same one they built her in) and ready for loading on a freighter, which is supposed to happen in about a week.

Can't wait to get her states-side and get going on all the final preparations. My wife and I have been slowly staging everything that goes on the boat. A large chunk of it came off our Grand Banks, which is now cleaned out and ready for showing in what-you-see-is-what-you-get condition. But there is a lot of other stuff specific to the Nordhavn. Seats for the salon (we got them ourselves rather than using the standard issue seats), linens, dishes, power cables, spare parts, nav monitors, kayaks.

Oh, yes, and the tender. That's an interesting one. I bought it ahead of time to give the business to a local dealer. I have to register the tender somewhere, which means paying sales tax somewhere, so I figured it might as well be my home state. Plus, having the boat in advance has given me the opportunity to test it out, install a small chart plotter and depth sounder, fit an anchor, etc, etc. It's one less thing to deal with during the heat of commissioning. It also allowed me to template and procure chocks in advance, and I'm using those same chocks as a transport cradle.

Mattresses will be part of this equation too. The PAE-supplied mattresses are more like camping ground mats. I gather they are typical for Asia, but not what we are accustom to here. The mattresses are all odd sizes and shapes so will be custom made, and we have had great luck with Gardner Mattress here in the Boston Area. We've done numerous boats and regular beds through them and know exactly what we want and what we will get. That, to me, is the most important thing, so when the boat gets to the States we will template the spaces and have the mattresses made here. They will then come out in the trailer with us too. Oh, and Gardner is significantly less expensive than the usual suspects for "Marine" mattresses. I highly recommend them.

Transport will be via an enclosed trailer that I have for moving cars around (I play around with old cars as another hobby). This trailer was one of the best investments I ever made, and has moved us and our kids numerous times. It probably has carried more cargo than cars so far. All our stuff will get loaded up, and we will make a cross-country adventure out of the drive to CA. It will also give us a vehicle while out there which will save on rental costs, and we can move stuff from the trailer onto the boat in stages as it is convenient. The only downside is that we then need to drive the whole rig back east when we are done, but we will deal with that.

Anyway, more can be followed at MVTanglewood.com

Well you certainly have built a very beautiful vessel. I wish you both the best with the Nordhavn. I have always felt these were fantastic purpose built vessels. Good luck on the personal touches.
Bill

Trip to the Yard

twistedtree said:

I think at some point I mentioned that we are building a Nordhavn 60, but I don't think I mentioned that I've got a blog that shows the whole process, or at least what's been completed so far. It's probably 3/4 of the way done.

Being a geek, I find the who process fascinating, so hopefully some other readers will too.

The main blog is here www.MVTanglewood.com

The build is intermixed with our current Grand Banks cruising, but it shouldn't be too hard to pick out the relevant posts. If you want to start at the beginning with the thought process that led to switching boats, it begins here Adventures of Tanglewood: A New Boat?

Sir, did you visit the yard recently and if so when were you there? Thanks

John T.

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N4061 said:

Sir, did you visit the yard recently and if so when were you there? Thanks

John T.

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Hi John,

I was last there the week of April 14th. My boat is finally en-route across the pacific, riding piggy-back on a freighter. Due San Diego (your home port, right?) 6/30. We plan to be there for the off-loading.

China Visit

twistedtree said:

Hi John,

I was last there the week of April 14th. My boat is finally en-route across the pacific, riding piggy-back on a freighter. Due San Diego (your home port, right?) 6/30. We plan to be there for the off-loading.

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Sir, would you be available for a short phone call today to discuss the logistics of your trip to the yard and your build process? If so I will forward my cell phone number to you off line. thanks

John T.

N4061 said:

Sir, would you be available for a short phone call today to discuss the logistics of your trip to the yard and your build process? If so I will forward my cell phone number to you off line. thanks

John T.

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Sending you a private message now....

Our boat was launched in San Diego today for the first time. Here are some pictures of the birthing process Adventures of Tanglewood: Nordhavn 6062 splashed and underway...

Enjoy

Peter

Congratulations on the launch.. what a great day for you guys. Every time I see a yacht water launched it gives me the willies.. I rode our boat off the container ship and it was one of the scariest things I have ever done.

Enjoy your new yacht!
HOLLYWOOD

What a great day! Absolutely stunning. Best of luck on the commissioning. Great adventures lie ahead.

Can't wait to see you at the helm giving a thumbs up! Congratulations on the splash.

Congrats, That must be a gratifying feeling. Eventually headed to Cape Ann Marina?

WOW, Well done, what a great day.
bet you can't wait to be really goping to sea.
All the best.
Cheers
Benn

Jeffrey S said:

Can't wait to see you at the helm giving a thumbs up! Congratulations on the splash.

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Yes, me too. Now I just need to get someone to take the picture. Or perhaps this is the excuse I've been looking for to get one of those drones with a camera.......

My wife says that the best boat in the world is a NEW boat!
Is she correct? I guess!
Nice Nordy! Enjoy

Are we excited yet? After commissioning where to?

Man....when that thing is hanging there on those slings, so much is at stake, you know. Sure glad it went well, great thumbs-up photo for the ships log. Tell us,...what the moment more of a proud moment or a moment of relief? Sincere congrats!

healhustler said:

Man....when that thing is hanging there on those slings, so much is at stake, you know.

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I cannot watch that part in person. I turn away until they tell me it's in the water. I don't even watch launches on travelifts.

Congratulations!

twistedtree said:

Our boat was launched in San Diego today for the first time. Here are some pictures of the birthing process Adventures of Tanglewood: Nordhavn 6062 splashed and underway...

Enjoy

Peter

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All the best with the new boat. If you are in SD feel free to call us for a cold drink and to talk about Nordhavn's.

John

N3522
La Tempestad

That is Fantastic!

What cool places are you going?

Congratulations on your new boat! Fantastic looking. The offloading must have been a very exciting experience for all involved. Best wishes for a wonderful time with her.