Stern Heavy

Badger sits stern heavy. The lazarette has two 50 gallon fuel tanks, plus another 40 gallon fuel tank the PO put in, and a 50 gallon water tank.

We put a 9.9 hp kicker on the back, and we're going to get a larger dingy with motor that'll be an extra 100 lbs above what's already attached to the swimgrid.

So, with 40 gallons of extra fuel, the tank itself, the swimgrid, a kicker, and now a larger dingy and its outboard, it's going to sit even lower.

Here's a photo with all tanks full...suggestions?

Get a heavy all-chain rode for the bow (add powered windlass if needed). Three hundred feet of chain might counter the downed stern. Burn the stern fuel first and maybe you'll even out. Don't fill up until you're starting an extensive cruise. Last resort: move the tanks.

Get a bunch of six gallon pails and fill with water until level then calculate the weight needed and see how much chain is needed.

Similar problem as I have aft tankage as well. The simple solution is to not fill the fuel tanks unless you plan on using the capacity for longer trips.

I don't typically (as in ever) need 500nm range.

I wish the original builder put them on either side of the ER as most other NT26s have.

Regardless, it's a heck of a good looking vessel. In addition to the considerations mentioned above, the "transfer" of weight would be my priority. Being a prolific modifier myself, I'd have a larger water tank made for under the v-berth if possible, and only fill the extra 40 gallon fuel tank when absolutely necessary. I'd also yank the extra fuel tank if my cruising didn't require it.

By the way, below I've included a copy of the same photo with no adjustment other than the boot stripe raised from about the center of the hull aft. She still looks level. Of course, your thru-hulls and exhaust might be another matter of concern, which is all the more reason to transfer the weight instead of adding more.

The cheapest option (besides doing nothing) would be to change the boot stripe and enjoy the boat.

I'd question why all the fuel and water too? BC is remote but how far do you normally travel? What's your burn rate? Adjust accordingly.

In "my" case 40 gallons of fuel and 10 gallons of water would be plenty but much like all things boating. Customize to fit "your" needs.

Murray,
The heavy ground tackle has some merit but not much. Reducing over all weight seems better.

You could move weight fwd by the use of bladders especially water. If you do that and remove the extra 40 gal PO installed fuel tank you should be on your way. Keeping the other two 50 gal fuel tanks 1/2 full will be fine for trim but 50 gal of fuel from where you start to cruise would be a bigger limitation for your range than most trawlers in most places. You have more widely spaced fuel stops than most in SE Alaska. In the old days one had to go 200 mi so of Rupert to find more fuel. I remember doing it w an OB boat. Gas tanks everywhere. Moving one of the 50 gal tanks fwd perhaps by buying a plastic tank would look like the only route to completely solving the problem.

BUT you should research your W/L and trim information and see just how far off you really are. Perhaps the person that painted the bootstripe just didn't know what he was doing. Just put it on where it looked good. Your description of the tanks does suggest you have an aft CG issue though.

AND consider that an aft CG will probably be better for running in the worst seas (quartering-following) than being bow heavy. I always try to keep my aft water tanks fairly full on Willy for that reason. Aft CG w a transom submerged just makes it more submerged and more draggy. C22?

If the Sundowner were my boat I'd consider it an important issue.

manyboats said:

You could move weight fwd by the use of bladders especially water. If you do that and remove the extra 40 gal PO installed fuel tank you should be on your way.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I did to trim a stern heavy 36' trawler. I got 60 gal more of fresh water, and the boat floated on her lines.

Moving the 300 lbs of water will give twice the benifit of adding 300 lbs of chain.

Kinda reminds me of the stability/handling issue of America's WWII long-range fighter P-51 until its behind-the-cockpit fuel tank was consumed.

I wouldn't worry about it as several have mentioned. My boat has more weight than usual in the aft area as both water and fuel tanks are now in the lazaret. Net effect unnoticeable in terms of trim, but she will surf with a light helm and no broaching tendency in a big following sea, so, as Eric mentioned, a good characteristic.

Certainly don't go weighing the for'd section down with dead weight just for trim, but hey, if you don't already have all chain, that would be the best way to do it, because it would have advantages whereas just adding dead weight would not. However, one other thing you could do, which I did, but not because of trim worries but because I wanted extra, was I put a reserve water tank in under the bow cabin floor. Again, a gain in weight but with purpose.
PS, sorry, I just realised a couple of the others also mentioned that.

FlyWright said:

The cheapest option (besides doing nothing) would be to change the boot stripe and enjoy the boat.

Click to expand...

If you don't already have all chain rode, I'd add that and re paint the boot strap.

As time goes on, you may see why the PO did what he did.

Ideally, fuel and water tanks are installed where they won't affect the trim of the boat because the weight varies as you fill and empty the tanks. Adding weight to the bow to counterbalance fuel in the stern will be a problem when you use up the fuel and water.

Look at your boat and try to find a way to move at least some of the weight towards the center of the boat (balanced on each side of course).

Maybe there is no problem. It has successfully operated, floated and cruised for a very longtime in some untamed waters. Isn't this a "reserve buoyancy" type question for those with credentials like Tad Roberts or the builder? Add weight in the bow, install bladders, move the fuel tanks - too many suggestions here, whew.

The boat in question and many BC fishing boats like it have a seemingly heavy stern, especially when loaded with a few tons of salmon. My half a$$ed suggestion - don't you have a big dog Murray? Rename him Trim and move him around a bit.

Tom,
This has nothing to do w fish boats.
This is a Sundowner yacht.

My fingers made an unconscious mistake and typed "Sunchaser".

And you could be right that there may be nothing wrong but it would require a wedge shaped hull like an early Mainship.

manyboats said:

Tom,
This has nothing to do w fish boats.
.

Click to expand...

You are right, hope I didn't besmirch Sundowner. But as my fish boat friends have told me they really like a vessel with a broad transom so they can pack in the weight.

Years ago Art DeFever designed the hull form on his vessels (like mine) to be able to hold lots of stern weight for charter (big guys with coolers) and commercial fishing if so configured. If set up for fishing, our aft cabin volume would hold about 10,000 lbs of people, ice and fish!

Tom I thought you were referring to the many gill net boats that look a lot like trawlers and in some cases actually are .. like Rawson boats and a few others. Some actually made a few trawlers on their gillnetter hulls.

Yup .. lots of fish boats (especially seiners) can be seen w their stern high in the air w nothing in their hold aft.

And lots of boats can safely vary much in trim and others are more sensitive. And despite what DeFever says when I'm in big seas I'm going to be hoping I'm as close to perfect trim as possible + or - a lot less than 10,000lbs.

Thanks for all the ideas. I'll have to double check photo's of original Sundowner Tugs, just to be sure the boot stripe is where it's supposed to be as suggested earlier...don't want to compound problems (or create more work, or create stability issues) by fixing something that doesn't need fixing.

sunchaser said:

My half a$$ed suggestion - don't you have a big dog Murray? Rename him Trim and move him around a bit.

Click to expand...

Good idea, except he would take up most of the forward berth, leave hair everywhere, and would you want to tell him no when he rolled over and gave you 'that special look'?

I see a bootstripe problem. Repaint it. Nice looking boat!

Just checked the brochure that came from the original owner, and the boot stripe appears to be where it should be.

Having the extra fuel tank makes sense for us because the more remote fuel stops around here run out on a semi-regular basis, and we intend to poke our noses into areas well off the inside passage.

One quick fix would be to put something like two long, flexible, 26 gallon Plastimo water tanks in the storage areas under each side of the forward berth. That would move about 430 pounds forward which might counter the weight of the dinghy and outboard hanging off the very back edge of the swim grid.

Moving water jugs around is a great idea..will do once we get our storm anchor and rode, which will add about 500 pounds on the bow (joke!).

Taking note of where the boat lives, the use of a long all chain rode is still a prime suggestion particularly if not already on the boat. For people who do not boat and anchor in the Northwest that much chain may seem like unnecessary weight. Since it is a highly desirable addition to a NW cruising boat in of itself the added effect on trim just comes with the package.

The biggest advantage that all chain would have in Murray's neck of the pond is the reduced swinging radius in mild weather. He would probably be fine strength wise w 1/4" HT chain. I'd prefer 5/16" but to get a fairly long rode 1/4" would be much lighter. One could attach a length of nylon line to extent the rode at times in deep water or use the splice and have a combination rode. And w the splice a shorter length of 5/16" chain has more appeal.

I used bags of sand, masonry sand, made them abt 40lbs each for ease of handling.
They mold themselves to the bilge and dont move. In place for over 25 years.

charles said:

I used bags of sand, masonry sand, made them abt 40lbs each for ease of handling.
They mold themselves to the bilge and dont move. In place for over 25 years.

Click to expand...

Great idea, Chuck. My Admiral says whenever she's too long away from the beach, she'd have something to put her toes into and pretend.

charles said:

I used bags of sand, masonry sand, made them abt 40lbs each for ease of handling.
They mold themselves to the bilge and dont move. In place for over 25 years.

Click to expand...

Great idea. I'll start with the 20 small sand bags that hold down the edges of the winter cover tarp. Best part is, I won't have to haul them from home to the boat every spring and fall

The all chain rode (with mandatory new windlass) solution would siphon too many 'yacht dollars' from this seasons intended improvements.

MurrayM said:

The all chain rode (with mandatory new windlass) solution would siphon too many 'yacht dollars' from this seasons intended improvements.

Click to expand...

Take one step at a time.

markpierce said:

Take one step at a time.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, and I'd go with the forward water tanks - you can never have too much water when cruising, but the beauty of the for'd tank(s) being reserve tanks, is most of the time you are not emptying them, so not altering the trim, which as Ron mentioned, is the downside normally to using tanks in constant use to alter trim.

Chain stored flat in a bilge will tend to rust if it gets wet at times.

The other reason to actually build a chain locker is the chain will come out , with no snarls .Chain that could get tumbled in a bilge can become an interesting knot.

Skeens and others give dimensions for chain lockers.

Put the winter tarp weights plus a couple medium sized sea kayaking dry bags full of sand as far forward as I could. Probably came to a bit over 250lbs. Made a noticeable difference, and brought the boot stripe out of the water at the stern.