Inconsiderate boaters... its definitely getting worse on the ICW

FlyWright said:

As I approached the mouth of Mare Island Strait/Napa River, I saw about 75 sailboats exiting the strait and fanning out to all the courses in my general direction. They must have been part of a sail race as there were still another 25-30 in the strait still heading out. I knew I'd have my hands full just dodging these little sailors. ...Meg spots the high speed ferry about a mile astern plowing toward us at about 32 kts. By now, I'm in the thick of the sailboat cluster, dodging port and stbd as they seem oblivious to the presence of anyone beyond their bow.

This ferry blows through at full speed, barely 30 feet from the closest sailboat and probably 125 ft off our port side. At least I had enough room to maneuver for his wake and I didn't see any sailboats capsized, but I imagined the Capt upstairs at the helm smiling and laughing at the disturbance he caused. It was a pretty gutsy maneuver for such a large, fast vessel in such a confined and crowded area.

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Sydney route ferries displaying a red diamond have right of way over everything. When you hear 5 blasts, watch out, some ferry skippers are good guys, some are anything but.
The GPS track of threading a path through a racing sailboat fleet can be interesting, though it won`t show the periods of idling and WOT to get through. I fully accept the rights of sailboat fleets but guys who tack in your water are asking for trouble.

Billylll said:

Well said George Jersey is an extension of Florida, only our ICW is skinny.
Bill

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Is there some contractual requirement that if you live in Jersey or on Long Island you must move to Florida upon reaching retirement age? Seems like all the blue hairs head there in their twilight years, then the families bring 'em back north for burial in the family plot.

Barpilot said:

All those sailboats were part of what is the biggest race in the US. At least it was in the past. I understand that there are now so many boats that they have had to split the race into 2 parts. Half go to Vallejo and the other half go to Redwood City or someplace like that.

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You're right, BP! It was the 2014 Great Vallejo Race. We had just attended the SF Bay Blessing of the Fleet and the Coast Guard was issuing warnings to mariners to exercise caution in Raccoon Strait due to the number of boats expected to be operating in the confined area. A similar warning would have been well received (at least by me) cautioning those in the area of the large number of blowboats in the confined waters.

Oh well, we missed 'em all and no one appeared to be hurt, so it was fun while it lasted and made for another memorable cruise.

Moonstruck said:

As I tell Lou, the one you give a bad pass could be your slipmate tonight. The ICW is really a small world.

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That is correct. I heard some classic radio traffic today. Some disparaging comments about the hailing port and so on... Funny thing was, I think it was a delivery captain in a hurry waking sailboats. It was a giant yacht and I was thinking the same thing as the sailboats, "why didn't you go outside?"

ancora said:

No where in the Nav Rules is the term "right of way" used. A vessel is either "stand on" or "give way."

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Sure of it?
There is one instance of "right of way" in Nav Rules ...
See ... NavRules Frequently Asked Questions

THD said:

...

For those real boat jerks, we have that great equalizer, the Chittendon Locks on weekends. Where jerky boat jockeys that can't get their boats to the wall can get laughed at by hundreds of tourists lining the rails!

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The fun really starts when the gates open. It's known as Premature Line Release Syndrome. And, judging by the photo, it can be contagious.

Tonic said:

The fun really starts when the gates open. It's known as Premature Line Release Syndrome. And, judging by the photo, it can be contagious.

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That is just stupid.....

Tonic-that disease is contagious as well. When my daughter was a bit younger, we used to love watching on busy Saturday mornings, it is great entertainment. Saturday is Opening Day of boat season here1 with a lot of activities over around the Montlake Cut and Portage Bay. Probably 500 boats going through the locks by about 10 AM. It will be fun!

twistedtree said:

What does 5 horn blasts mean? "Hello, I'm having a good time too?"

I'm pretty sure that 90% of the people at the helm of a boat have zero knowledge of the rules, let along practical experience. 5% may have taken a basic boater safety course, and forgotten most of it. And the boater safety course that I took many, many years ago focused on life jacket and other safety gear, lights for small boats, the most basic red/green buoy rules, and yield to anyone to your forward starboard. That's about it. Nothing about larger boat lighting like that barge that's coming down on you, nothing about signalling, none of the fine points about right of way, etc ,etc. It's equivalent to taking someone to a go-kart park and giving them a drivers license afterwards.

Maybe it's time to start lobbying for operator licensing. It's really bad anywhere there are a lot of boats.

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Peter,

I am so disappointed why change a system of enforced chaos, when so many profit from it.

Check out my post about bureaucracies, called "Rule of the Desk"
Rule of the Desk | Dauntless at Sea

caltexflanc said:

Definitely geezer talk, but it's our time to be geezers, so let's put on our rose colored glasses, recall when life was perfect and we were too, and bash today's ingrates and louts!

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Egregious said:

It was a giant yacht and I was thinking the same thing as the sailboats, "why didn't you go outside?"

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Funny, when I'm running large boats on the IWC I always think, way aren't all these sailboats on the outside where they could actually sail?

But we all know the answer to that don't we.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Funny, when I'm running large boats on the IWC I always think, way aren't all these sailboats on the outside where they could actually sail?

But we all know the answer to that don't we.

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They're motorboaters who refuse to admit it? If we're exploring an area we might run inside occasionally, but for getting somewhere, we spend as much time outside as possible.

As to wakes, one should simply get on a lake in a metropolitan area on a summer Sunday or a holiday and then you learn about wakes. When you have hundreds of boats on all sides creating wakes, then the wakes of the ICW seem like nothing afterwards. While I don't like someone coming too close or showing a total lack of consideration, I also don't get terribly disturbed by the one boat passing me making a wake that I can easily just turn into. Guess just glad it's not a boat crossing in front and a couple on each side making the largest wakes they can, probably wake boats designed just to make large wakes for the wakeboarders. Plus the jet skiers crossing close behind you to jump your wake.

After lake boating most of my life, the ICW on it's worse day is calm and relaxing.

I had a guy in a fast trawler pass me today.. The only word was "Slow pass on your port side" and I didn't even realize he was there. Finally, I looked back, realizing that he was talking to me and so I backed down. He passed within 10 feet of me, and making no wake, and so I dropped in behind. No wake, no fuss.

I just said "Thanks Cap!"

What I'm saying is that it takes two parties to properly execute a slow pass: the passer and the passee.

Egregious said:

What I'm saying is that it takes two parties to properly execute a slow pass: the passer and the passee.

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Just like basketball.

On the ICW today in SC. Four boats overtook me. One called me on the VHF and asked which side I preferred. I told him and we both slowed. No wake. It was a sailboat under power. The three others that passed just flew on by, no horn, no radio contact.

I overtook one sailboat. I contacted him on the VHF and arranged for a slow pass.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Funny, when I'm running large boats on the IWC I always think, way aren't all these sailboats on the outside where they could actually sail?

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BandB said:

They're motorboaters who refuse to admit it?

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We see a lot of those cruising Down East, too. We call them a "powerboat with a stick." The only time we see a lot of actual sailing is day sailors around the mouth of a harbor. Transiting between harbors, it's 80% powerboats - some with a stick, some without.

I never understood why. Especially when the wind is favorable. I like to imagine I'd be sailing every chance I got...if I had a stick.

CaptTom said:

We see a lot of those cruising Down East, too. We call them a "powerboat with a stick." The only time we see a lot of actual sailing is day sailors around the mouth of a harbor. Transiting between harbors, it's 80% powerboats - some with a stick, some without.

I never understood why. Especially when the wind is favorable. I like to imagine I'd be sailing every chance I got...if I had a stick.

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We're not sailors but do occasionally go out with others. Outside is the fun though. And the Chesapeake Bay. We enjoyed one day on a charter sailboat in Chesapeake Bay so much (great charter captain) that a week later we did it again.

CaptTom said:

We see a lot of those cruising Down East, too. We call them a "powerboat with a stick."

I never understood why. Especially when the wind is favorable. I like to imagine I'd be sailing every chance I got...if I had a stick.

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Can't speak for anyone but myself, but when we were cruisers on the sailboat, and wanted to go north (Keys to Chesapeake) or south (Chesapeake to Keys) we would carefully lay out what we were going to do, have all the anchorages chosen beforehand, and then figure roughly 50 miles a day. Always wanted to get anchored before sundown and enjoy the sunset with a glass of wine.

You can't usually do that if you sail outside, generally speaking. Wind may not be right, entrances to the ICW from the Atlantic may not be right, weather in general may not be right. Inside the ICW is dependable, even if it is boring sometimes. And sailing in the ICW itself is usually not a good idea, other than perhaps when crossing sounds.

jwnall said:

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but when we were cruisers on the sailboat, and wanted to go north (Keys to Chesapeake) or south (Chesapeake to Keys) we would carefully lay out what we were going to do, have all the anchorages chosen beforehand, and then figure roughly 50 miles a day. Always wanted to get anchored before sundown and enjoy the sunset with a glass of wine.

You can't usually do that if you sail outside, generally speaking. Wind may not be right, entrances to the ICW from the Atlantic may not be right, weather in general may not be right. Inside the ICW is dependable, even if it is boring sometimes. And sailing in the ICW itself is usually not a good idea, other than perhaps when crossing sounds.

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Understand the limits of sailing outside. But it just seems like running the ICW isn't sailing. Why have a sailboat to do trawlering? Although it's an efficient trawler generally. I did know one couple that did the loop in their sailboat and they removed the sails and stepped the mast before even starting. Just decided to motor all the way.

Maybe it comes down to motoring the ICW and covering 50 miles or going outside and enjoying a day of sailing but only moving forward 30 miles.

Greetings,
"Why have a sailboat to do trawlering?" The wind is free. Sailboats are environmentally friendly. Motor boats are smelly. Any number of inane reasons. Snobbery perhaps?

BandB said:

Understand the limits of sailing outside. But it just seems like running the ICW isn't sailing. Why have a sailboat to do trawlering?

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True. And if one only does the ICW then a trawler is much better, I agree. But we also went to Mexico, Belize, Honduras, Cuba, and Guatemala, and then the sailboat comes into its own. We could not have done that in a trawler (or at least one that we could afford, I mean).

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
"Why have a sailboat to do trawlering?" The wind is free. Sailboats are environmentally friendly. Motor boats are smelly. Any number of inane reasons. Snobbery perhaps?

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Sailboats are smelly too if they're motoring and price of wind becomes irrelevant.

jwnall said:

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but when we were cruisers on the sailboat, and wanted to go north (Keys to Chesapeake) or south (Chesapeake to Keys) we would carefully lay out what we were going to do, have all the anchorages chosen beforehand, and then figure roughly 50 miles a day. Always wanted to get anchored before sundown and enjoy the sunset with a glass of wine.

You can't usually do that if you sail outside, generally speaking. Wind may not be right, entrances to the ICW from the Atlantic may not be right, weather in general may not be right. Inside the ICW is dependable, even if it is boring sometimes. And sailing in the ICW itself is usually not a good idea, other than perhaps when crossing sounds.

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We have made the same trip several times and couldn't agree more. Offshore sailing is for passage making. We have gone direct from Norfolk to Charleston with what we thought was a good weather window. Surprise! Wasn't planning on that. We try to avoid bad weather whenever possible. The difference, is that if caught out in it, we know how to handle it. I'm guessing we have experienced some weather that our power boat friends would really not like to be caught in.
When we finally find our trawler and join the ranks, we will certainly not look down our noses at sailors because we have been one of them for over 60 years.

Greetings,
Mr. B. "...some weather that our power boat friends would really not like to be caught in." You are 100% correct! A sailboat IS the vessel for passage making and making way in sea conditions that would make a lot of power boats quite uncomfortable. Horses for courses.
Other than restrictive water routes other reasons I've heard for sailboats motoring are: The wind's too weak. The wind's too strong. The wind's from the wrong direction. Sailors or sailboat owners?

As we are now traveling back to NC from Keys, we have figured out how to handle the rude and crazy boaters on the Florida ICW discussed in detail above. We just dock and stay tied up on Saturdays and Sundays. Gives us a chance to rest, do boat chores, and explore different places. So far, it works for us.

Barpilot said:

When we finally find our trawler and join the ranks, we will certainly not look down our noses at sailors because we have been one of them for over 60 years.

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Personally, I think that trawler owners who look down their noses at sailors, or sailors who look down their noses at trawler owners (powerboats in general, actually) are both just showing immaturity and a lack of understanding. I had a blue water sailboat for twenty years. Now I have a trawler. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. For blue water, I would choose a sailboat. For what I do now, which is relaxing and enjoying my old age, I choose a trawler. And there is room for both on the water.

jwnall said:

Personally, I think that trawler owners who look down their noses at sailors, or sailors who look down their noses at trawler owners (powerboats in general, actually) are both just showing immaturity and a lack of understanding. I had a blue water sailboat for twenty years. Now I have a trawler. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. For blue water, I would choose a sailboat. For what I do now, which is relaxing and enjoying my old age, I choose a trawler. And there is room for both on the water.

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Totally agree. Our reason for no sailboat is that we're too lazy. While power and sail boaters joke with each other in good nature sometimes, I do see more sail boaters who truly do look down on power boaters as if we're committing sacrilege. Still, most don't. Of course the sail boaters I knew on the lake would look down on most sail boaters we see at the coast as many of them think the idea of ever using a motor is horrible. Mostly small catamarans. I honestly don't know any power boaters who truly look down on sail boaters although I'm sure there are some. Most of us love seeing them sail by.

"go to places were the pace is slower and magically courtesy is back."

You are right, Mike. I cannot remember the last time I came across an inconsiderate boater.

But, to put it in perspective, I often don't come across any boaters once I leave the marina.

AusCan said:

"go to places were the pace is slower and magically courtesy is back."

You are right, Mike. I cannot remember the last time I came across an inconsiderate boater.

But, to put it in perspective, I often don't come across any boaters once I leave the marina.

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Folks, can I draw your attention to the above post from AusCan, as it beautifully illustrates the point included in the Orientation 102 posted as a sticky in Welcome Mat, covering posting etiquette/practises.

When quoting someone's post, please give more consideration to just a quick copy & paste, suitably highlighted, (inverted commas, bold, italics - they all work), so your point in reply clearly follows.

Or, better still - use the quote button by all means, which places it in a box and names the person quoted clearly, but delete those parts not specifically related to the point you wish to make. It does get a bit 'wordy' when verbatim posts are continually being quoted, especially if they are long ones…helps everyone to be a bit economical. The issue has been drawn to the attention of the mods recently, hence the sticky, but I think it probably does not hurt to just pop in the odd reminder once in a while on a thread, (how often do you read the stickies?), as people forget sometimes. I'm sure no-one will mind….

Thanks all, now…back to normal transmission….

PS - putting this on this thread was totally coincidental, and had nothing to do with the thread title…but in retrospect it might have looked that way...
Oh, yeah…and please go easy on those emoticons...

I went out Easter weekend. Boy was that a mistake. Turned around after an hour. Safer at the dock.

Unfortunately, boating on the weekdays is not readily possible for those of us who are not retired; however, weekdays are a joy for boating when I can take the occasional day off--what a difference! It is impossible now a days to take a full week or two off for vacation, so my wife and I make several long weekends by taking several Thursdays and Fridays off during the summer.

Amazing how the workplace has changed in the past decade or two. Americans are now too busy to take vacations (if they even have vacation time to begin with). I remember my mother and father (both successful white collar professionals) always took two full weeks off during the summer--impossible for most us in today's workplace.