A broker's rant (yes we're allowed)

Richard W said:

Well ... call me ignorant ... but how the buyer broker thing works. I never used one ... I always dealt with boat seller's broker myself.

What constitutes or commences the buyer and broker business relation. I can sense it's not a black and white thing, and somehow different than in real estate.

This might be an opportunity to educate the ignorant ...

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Your method works but understand two negatives. First, you're really talking to the seller. Not going to do anything to steer you into what is right for you in most cases. His obligation is clear. Second, you're going to be contacting a lot of brokers. In doing so you may not be as important as you should be to some. If you'll only look at one boat with them, they'll think you're just window shopping sometimes. All of them want but some will.

By having your own broker as a buyer there are certain benefits. Let's be clear they are not a buyer's broker as such unless you have a contract saying so. They are a broker chosen by buyer and helping the buyer but their true obligation is to the seller, because that's who is paying them. To change that would take a contract stating they are your representative and responsible to you. Still some will show they feel obligated to help you regardless. They will help you with negotiation, contracting, steps to take, even refer you for documentation, loans, or insurance. But most importantly they'll help you find the right boat. They don't care which it is. Just one, the right one. They should listen to you and talk to you about types and brands, likes and dislikes. Then search, but not just what is on Yachtworld or Boat Trader. They should inquire and qualify the boat. Then take you to the one, two or three that meet your needs best. So the two benefits are (1) you pick up some personal assistance and direction and may make a better decision plus learn of more boats and (2) you may save a lot of time in the process. There is a third I should add. Using the seller's broker you don't get to choose, it's who he chose. Using a broker yourself, you get to interview brokers and find one you're comfortable with.

Now this is when it works as it should. Otherwise it's easier to do what you've done.

In deciding which way to go, I'd consider my own knowledge and experience in the type boat I was searching for, the time I had available, and just my tolerance for having to talk to many brokers as opposed to one.

I personally would never go to all the different selling brokers for one personal reason. I want someone to work with as I go through the entire process, whether I look at one or ten boats. What I don't want is looking at 5 boats and 5 brokers then contacting me constantly about the boat they showed me and others, and probably sometimes about the same boat. I do not enjoy hard sells or talking to a lot of salespersons.

Now I must give one caveat to all this. While I know the process well and have helped friends who bought plus have friends who are brokers, I've not actually been through it as I've never purchased a used boat. But in many ways they work very much like house brokers, just not as many legal restrictions in most areas. Not to offend any broker and I know the good brokers won't be, but in most areas being a boat broker doesn't require any courses nor any apprenticeship of any sort. So while there are many great ones, there are some who have no idea what they're doing and others with no integrity.

ActiveCaptain said:

It's the nature of forums. I think TF is a little better than most but much has to change or else it's going to die. As proof to that, I offer this question: how many women participate here? 2%? If that? Women won't put up with much of the crap that goes on here. It can't continue over the long term unless and until women are a part of the conversation (remember that quote!).

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I really don't think so.
Men are more likely to be overt, while women covert, for obvious reasons.
Just because the thoughts are not said, does not make it nicer.

THis forum works and is useful because contributors are willing to say what's on thier mind, good, bad or ugly.

i'd rather have a contributor like Mark, say his piece, then go sulk like others have and lose his valuable contributions. And if you don't like his contributions, don't ... read them.

>If that? Women won't put up with much of the crap that goes on here.<

Nonsense, my bride is an ex. capt of her own cruiser racer, and is delighted with the extra space of our 50 ft.

Sadly she has ZERO interest in swopping oil change techniques , or holding tank blow outs repair techniques...

But then I am not a knitter or weaver , and do not participate in her forums.

It took 60 years but even Time mag finally realized there is a difference between boyz and goils!

*****
ALL salesmen understand the motto,

Buyers are Liars.

Not even the Saints among brokers will list low priced , fix her up, style boats.

Miles and miles of Lookey Lou time wasters with big dreams , but no dimes .

Time is money,

cardude01 said:

OK. So I'm the ass it would appear.

Mark and I did talk on the phone a few times and we did exchange many emails quite awhile back. I did go look at a boat he had listed in MD and didn't like it, like maybe a year ago? Really didn't hear from him much after that and I figured that was that. We did talk about him being a buyers broker, but we never had any formal, written agreement, and I don't remember him EVER sending me any boats, but I could be misremembering.

Since then I've looked at quite a few boats (and posted them up here) and did not use any buyers brokers on any of them or talk to Mark, and never heard from him. I really didn't think we had any agreement.

I'm a little surprised he is going off on me now, but I do (and did) apologize because now I feel like I've f$&ked it up somehow, so I understand his frustration.

I'm in sales so do get it, but I don't tend to whine when **** doesn't go my way.

Don't want to start a pissing match, but wanted to respond.

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I don't think you did anything wrong. It's the salespersons job to size up the client in order to make the sale. This reminds me of a house I bought once where I was working with one agent who did his best to show me houses that were in my budget even though clearly I wanted more house than my money would buy. I got talking with another agent and he sized me up perfectly, took me out one night showed me 3 houses within my price range and then the fourth and final house was what I was really looking for even though it was more money than I wanted to spend. I bought the fourth house. The first agent tried to make a case out of it but in the end it was him who didn't read me right. You snooze you loose.

FF said:

Nonsense, my bride is an ex. capt of her own cruiser racer, and is delighted with the extra space of our 50 ft.

Sadly she has ZERO interest in swopping oil change techniques , or holding tank blow outs repair techniques...

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That's cherry picking a few subject areas that women probably aren't interested in.

The reality and the reasons women are not here go much deeper. As proof, Facebook groups about boating and cruising are filled with women contributing and taking part in the conversations. There's magic in understanding why...

Like I said I'm not going to get into the specifics now that the buyer has exposed himself. That said please don't start into a who's right who's wrong as I have not detailed my side, and won't to protect my client. The topic should stay on the broad topic and not the specifics of this case as none of you are totally aware of either sides version. The questions lie in a better understanding of the roles of the broker and clients. I have decided to add a client's bill of rights statement to pass on to my clients. The statement should help to educate the public and cut down on unintended consequences.

The sheer number of women in boating that place it high as a hobby...over keeping up with friends and family is very low.

My liveaboard girlfriend also enjoys the cruising life but barely has much interest in the nut's and bolts of boating other than slightly assisting in docking. No way would she be on any forum other than when I point out something of interest to her.

Sure in the "pure" cruising circles...there's plenty of women with the same captain rating as their sig other...but not from the general boating population...I would say that of all the boaters I know...and I know plenty as I tow them 8 months out of the year.... I would say it's only a couple percent that would be on this or any boating forum as much as the regulars are.

They have better things to do with their time.

Daddyo said:

Like I said I'm not going to get into the specifics now that the buyer has exposed himself. That said please don't start into a who's right who's wrong as I have not detailed my side, and won't to protect my client. The topic should stay on the broad topic and not the specifics of this case as none of you are totally aware of either sides version. The questions lie in a better understanding of the roles of the broker and clients. I have decided to add a client's bill of rights statement to pass on to my clients. The statement should help to educate the public and cut down on unintended consequences.

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Great idea...too bad we have so many uneducated consumers in this world.

In fact I think education and knowledge have become four letter words these days....

ActiveCaptain said:

That's cherry picking a few subject areas that women probably aren't interested in.

The reality and the reasons women are not here go much deeper. As proof, Facebook groups about boating and cruising are filled with women contributing and taking part in the conversations. There's magic in understanding why...

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I know we're getting a bit off subject but isn't that the nature of a conversation? Jeff, I'd love to hear more about your take on what is the reason for the lack of female participation on this forum?

Lest we forget GG------.