Does this make me cheap?

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There was a guy on our gated, roofed, floating dock that has 18 slips and and an end tie who constantly filled his diesel powered Trawler with fuel out of Jerry cans. It's not supposed to be done as per marina rules, but he never got sighted or questioned.

I don't think anything of bringing three new condition, non leak 5 gal gas cans (safely filled to only 4.5 gal each) to our boat for replnishment fuel on our 50 hp runabout during long weekends out and about. If there's gasoline remaining after filling runabout's two 6 gal tanks it goes into our Tolly's tanks... of course, that all is accomplished while on the hook, not at the dock.
 
Art said:
I don't think anything of bringing three new condition, non leak 5 gal gas cans (safely filled to only 4.5 gal each) to our boat for replnishment fuel on our 50 hp runabout :popcorn:
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Given all the marina, boat and dock fires I have seen or read about, I'd raise a red flag with someone who is carting many containers of fuel and especially gasoline and then fueling tanks on a boat next to me.

Saving a small amount of money is one thing, saving a boat or 20 is something else again. Not all boaters are fire conscious and giving them a pop quiz is not my privy - in fact some will read this and think gasoline is the same as diesel fuel, fuel is fuel right? These marina rules are there for more than show, sometimes they are there to protect the ignorant.

Back to the PO's question, all too many boaters see threads like this and get the idea that improper fueling is condoned by those who frequent TF. Just say NO!
 
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sunchaser said:
Art said:
I don't think anything of bringing three new condition, non leak 5 gal gas cans (safely filled to only 4.5 gal each) to our boat for replnishment fuel on our 50 hp runabout :popcorn:QUOTE]

Given all the marina, boat and dock fires I have seen or read about, I'd raise a red flag with someone who is carting many containers of fuel and especially gasoline and then fueling tanks on a boat next to me.

Saving a small amount of money is one thing, saving a boat or 20 is something else again. Not all boaters are fire conscious and giving them a pop quiz is not my privy - in fact some will read this and think gasoline is the same as diesel fuel, fuel is fuel right? These marina rules are there for more than show, sometimes they are there to protect the ignorant.

Back to the PO's question, all too many boaters see threads like this and get the idea that improper fueling is condoned by those who frequent TF. Just say NO!
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I agree with you on marina rules except I'd say to protect the innocent. Too many marina fires. Too much oil and gas pollution in marinas. The good marinas spend more than you would imagine just cleaning up the little leaks of oil and gas they find here and there on the water surface. I don't think one has the right to decide which marina rules to follow and which to ignore. When you chose to dock there you agreed to certain rules.

One thing those rules do too is shift a tremendous burden of liability to you if anything does go wrong.
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Marina rule is not against transporting any type fuel to and aboard a boat; so long as that fuel is transported in a safely sealed container. The rule is against "pouring" (or otherwise transfering said fuel) at dock from one container to another... due to chance of spills during said pour.

Please note the following quote from very end of my post # 31...

"... of course, that all is accomplished while on the hook, not at the dock."

Any boater has the right to do as they see fit regarding fuel or other items on board their boat when away from dock. :popcorn:
 
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Art said:
Any boater has the right to do as they see fit regarding fuel or other items on board their boat when away from dock. :popcorn:
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Not really, CFRs and USCG regs still apply when away from the dock in all sorts of areas to protect the ignorant and others while promoting good safety practices and avoiding pollution. Power Squadron courses are a good place to begin for those who believe the seven seas, inland lakes and rivers are fair game for those who elect to do "as they see fit."
 
Art said:
Any boater has the right to do as they see fit regarding fuel or other items on board their boat when away from dock. :popcorn:
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sunchaser said:
Not really, CFRs and USCG regs still apply when away from the dock in all sorts of areas to protect the ignorant and others while promoting good safety practices and avoiding pollution. Power Squadron courses are a good place to begin for those who believe the seven seas, inland lakes and rivers are fair game for those who elect to do "as they see fit."
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sun -

To keep you happy, I might add “in a professionally safe manner" to my quote above.

Having been decades in, on, and around boats... I'd venture to say that my transfer of (or in any other way or actions working with) any type of fuel while aboard my boat away from dock is more safe than many of the standard fuel exchanges that occur at fuel docks. Wherein... I spill nothing and utilize all correct mannerisms as well as legally correct fuel container tanks and transfer equipment. To say that I (or any boat Captain) cannot do as I/we see fit with fuel aboard our boats while anchored away from docks (short of spilling any type fuel into water – which is a BIG no, no) is not written in any code I’ve ever read or previously heard mention of – that is before you mentioned as such!

If you have items saying such credos/laws are available from CFR or USCG that states a boat’s Captain is not to work with his boat’s fuels and/or any of their systems while aboard and away from docks, and, at anchor – please post it – I WANT to read it!

If that were true, then the often relatively precarious circumstance (depending on position in ER as well as depending on filter type) of changing fuel filters and other gasoline associated equipment would be illegal too.

Please advise of applicable statements from CRF and/or USCG, and where to obtain them.

Thank you,

Art
 
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All I have to say is if you find yourself hauling jugs in the other direction to save on pumpout costs - you are too cheap.
 
Art said:
Art said:
If you have items saying such credos/laws are available from CFR or USCG that states a boat’s Captain is not to work with his boat’s fuels and/or any of their systems while aboard and away from docks, and, at anchor – please post it – I WANT to read it!


Thank you,

Art
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Come on Art, I never said that.

All sorts of Newbies are on this site and are looking for some guidance. It is simply incorrect to make a blanket statement saying that a Captain is free to do as he sees fit - agreed many do so and at their own and crew's peril..

Your original statement placed no boundaries leaving open simple things such as requirements for life vests, flares, rules of the road, judgement, experience, illegal discharges, drugs, alcohol, firearms etc. Thank you for the amendments.
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sunchaser said:
Art said:
Come on Art, I never said that.

All sorts of Newbies are on this site and are looking for some guidance. It is simply incorrect to make a blanket statement saying that a Captain is free to do as he sees fit - agreed many do so and at their own and crew's peril..

Your original statement placed no boundaries leaving open simple things such as requirements for life vests, flares, rules of the road, judgement, experience, illegal discharges, drugs, alcohol, firearms etc. Thank you for the amendments.
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Sun, au contraire... in your post# 35 that was directly implied impression you portrayed.

I agree with you that newbies frequent this site and I do not mean to lead them toward any self effacing false personal bravado regarding their capabilities aboard any boat that in reality takes years of study and/or hard-learned practiced efforts to master.

But I will say – ANY person who takes Captain Position aboard a boat is supposed to be capable of fulfilling that position. And, any person who takes Captain Position needs to know their own strong points, limits, weaknesses, and liabilities... as well as what to do and what not to do in every circumstance.

So, in keeping with your limited listed reference safety-list in post above, and for me to personally say that NO person (Captain or otherwise) aboard boat should handle flammable liquids or gasses unless fully qualified by one means or another, I strongly suggest that all newbies take enough time to understand the myriad nuances to boating before acting as Captain and before trying to accomplish any items aboard for which they must be well prepared and fully capable of handling if perchance emergency may arise.

In other words – I agree with you Sunchaser on many, many points and feel thay you are a great asset for teaching newbies the "ropes" of boating (I too have listened closely to items in your posts, and learned)... but I do not agree with your point (implied or otherwise) that a qualified, learned Captain should not handle flammable liquids or gasses aboard boat while anchored away from dock.

Happy Boat Learning Daze, Dear Newbies! You’ll learn oodles here on TF – Good luck!! - Art
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I carry a fraction of the diesel you big guys can carry but I fill up via jerry cans. Considering I burn such little fuel, it is easy to top off the tank before every trip. I do, however, get very nervous and concerned about spills. I have ample shop towels and absorbent cloths handy in case of a spill on the deck. Also, be sure not to overfill your cans.
 
I keep a giant wad of shop towels with me and wrap it around either the neck of the funnel or the fill tube of the jerry jug. I don't have issues with spills into the water, though I occasionally spill a little onto the deck. I wipe that up.

Two ironies here:

1. The new "no spill jugs" actually spill a lot easier than the old vented style. The fuel flow from them is erratic and occasionally the little tab slips off of the deck fill edge and flings a stream of fuel across the water. Whoever came up with this invention didn't use it very much. Also, they are nearly impossible to use with a funnel.

2. I've filled my boat a number of times now directly from the pump. Most times it is me pumping, but sometimes an attendant has to do it. There has been a small spill every single fill up, not a lot, along the lines of perhaps an ounce. Sometimes a little comes out of the vent (I hold an oil diaper under it) and often some comes out of the pump nozzle as it is either inserted into or comes out of the fuel fill.

Persecute me if you want, but in real life it is hard if not impossible to fill up without spilling a single drop.
 
Dougcole said:
I keep a giant wad of shop towels with me and wrap it around either the neck of the funnel or the fill tube of the jerry jug. I don't have issues with spills into the water, though I occasionally spill a little onto the deck. I wipe that up.

Two ironies here:

1. The new "no spill jugs" actually spill a lot easier than the old vented style. The fuel flow from them is erratic and occasionally the little tab slips off of the deck fill edge and flings a stream of fuel across the water. Whoever came up with this invention didn't use it very much. Also, they are nearly impossible to use with a funnel.

2. I've filled my boat a number of times now directly from the pump. Most times it is me pumping, but sometimes an attendant has to do it. There has been a small spill every single fill up, not a lot, along the lines of perhaps an ounce. Sometimes a little comes out of the vent (I hold an oil diaper under it) and often some comes out of the pump nozzle as it is either inserted into or comes out of the fuel fill.

Persecute me if you want, but in real life it is hard if not impossible to fill up without spilling a single drop.
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It's called a siphon...:thumb:...

....just kidding but there are easier ways in my book for transferring fuel than pouring....take it from a guy who transfers hundreds of gallons by jugs to impatient boaters every summer...:eek:
 
I routinely take my old beater pickup truck to the fuel depot with two or three "blue barrels" and load up 110 to 160gal. Drive up to boat and do a gravity drain into boat tanks. It saves about $0.75/gal. Worth it if work is slow and I am in goof-off mode. If work is busy and time short, the marina a few miles away or the fuel truck is worth it for the time savings.

Five gal jugs are a major PITA and prone to spill. I've used them a couple times to get 20gal in (bad planning on my part), but that is not my favorite way to feed the beast.

One local fuel truck I've called and asked if he was out my way for another drop, to give me a call and I'd take 100 or 200gal. That way I avoid a minimum. His price is just a little above that at the depot. Worth it for the convenience.

Waiting for the winter price surge to drop, and the bulk tanks in my shop will get a fill. Always a gamble doing that, and probably not worth the effort. Just the penny pincher inherent with a bit of Norwegian blood....
 
Amen! The new "no spill" spouts are useless from my experience! They make more of a mess than the older spouts. They also break rather easily.
 
fstbttms said:
2 people making 8 trips lugging 40 gallons each time to save $33/trip = Cheap :D
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**SIDE NOTE** Welcome back, Matt. It's been a while, ain't it? :socool:
 
One other issue to consider is the legality of transporting fuel via your pickup or in those containers, there is a limit as to how much fuel you can legally haul other than in your secured vehicle tank. There are also federal regulations concerning placards that must be displayed....something else to think about when you are hauling that fuel and a highway accident occurs!
 
There are also federal regulations concerning placards that must be displayed....something else to think about when you are hauling that fuel and a highway accident occurs!

And the drones are watching and filming every second!

Folks that do transfer fuel may find the siphon hoses sold at flea markets ,
a glass marble in a couple of copper fittings that is simply jiggled up and down to start the action a very easy system to operate.
 
Roostor said:
One other issue to consider is the legality of transporting fuel via your pickup or in those containers, there is a limit as to how much fuel you can legally haul other than in your secured vehicle tank. There are also federal regulations concerning placards that must be displayed....something else to think about when you are hauling that fuel and a highway accident occurs!
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Care to point those out?

I don't remember any of that applying to non-commercial vehicles...but they could exist.

Kinda like the gas on a boat thing...I don't know of any USCG regs for non-inspected vessels...but there's always some obscure rule they might apply.
 
psneeld said:
Care to point those out?

I don't remember any of that applying to non-commercial vehicles...but they could exist.

Kinda like the gas on a boat thing...I don't know of any USCG regs for non-inspected vessels...but there's always some obscure rule they might apply.
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FCCK! For over 50 years I always liked to sleep on my right side. Now that Gov has made it mandatory that we leave at least one window shade cracked open so a drone can peer in (any time), and they also mandated that I sleep on my left side... well... I'm so afraid to go to bed that all now that I do instead of sleeping is to transport fuel in 1/2 gallon cardboard milk containers all night long so the drone looking into my truck bed simply reports me as a titty baby! - OK - My rant is over - almost!

But, please!!! WTF... soon Gov is going to tell us we can be fined (or jailed) if not chewing 32 times between bites of food, or brushing our teeth minimum of 3 times daily, or, or, or, or.... OR .... This Gov rules and reg thing on private individuals is getting WAY Out of Hand!

Safety is as safety does. Just look at the relatively recent pour neck design mandated on plastic gas cans by Gov - They are STUPID and not safe at all! The Gov employed designers have obviously NEVER poured fuel from a can in their life! But, they remain fat and happy collecting Gov pay checks paid for by our taxes

Off the net, I still purchase good ol' high quality 5 gal metal cans with spring loaded rubber gasket sealed pour ends. I use long neck funnels (auto transmission fill funnels - been around for many decades) either at their full length or cut to appropriate size for different application needs.

This increasing Gov Rules thing has got be put under control!
 
Art said:
FCCK! For over 50 years I always liked to sleep on my right side. Now that Gov has made it mandatory that we leave at least one window shade cracked open so a drone can peer in (any time), and they also mandated that I sleep on my left side... well... I'm so afraid to go to bed that all now that I do instead of sleeping is to transport fuel in 1/2 gallon cardboard milk containers all night long so the drone looking into my truck bed simply reports me as a titty baby! - OK - My rant is over - almost!
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Don't panic yet! Now that our masters have realized that the surveilance state they have been praising has been turned on them they "may" rethink their position. If Feinstein's realization that the CIA hacked her computers wasn't funny enough, this one, below, is a real howler.

Of course, the reality is that they will just tweak the laws to ensure that only us peons are subjected to this invasion of privacy.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein pushes for drone regulation after one flies up to her window - NY Daily News
 
I had a feeling when I started this thread that it would turn into a fun one, likely at my expense (I'm ok with that). I never knew it would get around to Senator Feinstein though. Astounding.
 
Roostor said:
One other issue to consider is the legality of transporting fuel via your pickup or in those containers, there is a limit as to how much fuel you can legally haul other than in your secured vehicle tank. There are also federal regulations concerning placards that must be displayed....something else to think about when you are hauling that fuel and a highway accident occurs!
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What is the limit on gallons I can haul?

So If I am over the limit should I carry less fuel and make two trips? Is that safer?
 
As to transporting diesel (what the OP was commenting on) or gasoline...not sure the amount is stated anyplace and there's plenty of tank mounted tanks carrying 100 gallons (+)....
 
Dougcole said:
I had a feeling when I started this thread that it would turn into a fun one, likely at my expense (I'm ok with that). I never knew it would get around to Senator Feinstein though. Astounding.
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Doug - You did a good thang starting this thread; I thank you!

It has been and is continuing to be fun reading boaters' conjectures regarding what they think is correct or incorrect for filling boat fuel tanks. Guess you could say some people are leaders and others followers... no names mentioned on either side - to protect the innocent! :rofl:

Main premise as I see it: You began this thread as a stated (questioned?) freedom to fuel your boat where and as you "personally" desire (considering all safety precautions are in place and adhered to; and that whatever the “filling” location may be it is desirable/correct for safe fuel transfer. Also to save a couple buck$$$! Please correct me if what I ascertain to be your reasoning for this thread is incorrect.

Who watched 60 Minutes last night; regarding completely rigged U.S. stock Market? And, please don't be fooled that the so called "truth seeking" persons who decided to leave their multimillion dollar jobs to "expose and correct" the rigged Stock Market. IMO there's some deep new-shat going on that is NOT in favor of the general population. But rather, in direct favor of those at the top levels of financial manipulations. I don’t think for a moment that the BIG BOYS on top of all this crap (i.e. Gov, Financial Institutions, TV, Hollywood – they all sleep in same bed – ALWAYS) would let this self-condemning info loose to the public-eye if there were not some other plans they are fully ready to act upon. :eek:

I used to personally trade in the Stock Market. Sold out “lock stock and barrel” into CASH at the 14K market level just days before the real crash began several years ago. After bottom was hit (nicknamed the "Hanes Bottom" cause a commentator on the stock market TV channel suddenly one day called it right on the Money! - Always wondered who from on top told him to call it "the bottom" at that very moment?? BTW - Hanes soon died of heart attack - hummmm??) Anyway, I began to dabble again as market rose. I soon realized the game had suddenly become even more rigged than it was pre crash. I've stayed away since, investing in other things. :D

Soooo... reason I state the two paragraphs above is simply in coincidence to the fact that on more levels than imaginable we are not only being controlled on our personal preferences but we are also being lied to on nearly every level of Gov and financials. The bad, scary and nearly invisible portion to these increasing manipulator control factors is “hypnotism”! Yup – that’s correct – the “closely-controlled” airwaves are using consistent hypnosis methods to sway the general public in directions and into positions that the BIG BOYS and GIRLS want to place us. :nonono:

Outcome to this, directions we will be forced to travel during next decades, circumstances that will become manifest cannot be clearly discerned at this time. Suffice it to say... we ain’t seen nutten yet! When You Least Expect IT – EXPECT IT! :ermm:

Happy Re-Fueling Boating Daze! - Art :whistling:
 
psneeld said:
As to transporting diesel (what the OP was commenting on) or gasoline...not sure the amount is stated anyplace ...............
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That's the first time I've ever known you to be not sure of anything! :rolleyes:
 
Ski in NC said:
What is the limit on gallons I can haul?

So If I am over the limit should I carry less fuel and make two trips? Is that safer?
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You can check with your state's Department of Transportation for the legal limit. You may also find some requirements on how you carry it, that is what kind of containers, how they are to be mounted and what safety features are required.
 
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