Florida Gulf coast anchors

We went out this weekend and I am about at the end of using our 45 pound CQR in our area. We have mostly sand or sand/mud bottoms. The CQR does not hold. We have a Fortress FX37 that out does it everytime but it does not work well with all chain. All chain works much better with our windlass. What anchor for our area do you think I should pick to replace the CQR? I also have a Delta 45 lbs anchor that I have not tried but I would expect it to work like the CQR.....

I'd recommend you do try the Delta before investing in anything else, because the Delta is still a pretty good anchor - certainly better at setting than the CQR, and much easier to use, especially with all chain rode, than the Fortress types.

Good old Danforth anchors are by far the most popular anchor in use by boaters on the Florida gulfcoast--it is what I've used for many years from Tarpon Springs to Sarasota. I've never had a problem. The coast here is mainly sand and weed. My back-up is a Bruce anchor, which occasionally has some problems with hard sandy bottoms.

Rogerh said:

We went out this weekend and I am about at the end of using our 45 pound CQR in our area. We have mostly sand or sand/mud bottoms. The CQR does not hold. We have a Fortress FX37 that out does it everytime but it does not work well with all chain. All chain works much better with our windlass. What anchor for our area do you think I should pick to replace the CQR? I also have a Delta 45 lbs anchor that I have not tried but I would expect it to work like the CQR.....

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Can you identify why the Fortress doesn't work with all chain?

The anchor really shouldn't know the diff of all chain versus a chain/nylon set up....at least in my experience and thinking.

Anchor Wars v. MXVII

Rogerh said:

We went out this weekend and I am about at the end of using our 45 pound CQR in our area. We have mostly sand or sand/mud bottoms. The CQR does not hold. We have a Fortress FX37 that out does it everytime but it does not work well with all chain. All chain works much better with our windlass. What anchor for our area do you think I should pick to replace the CQR? I also have a Delta 45 lbs anchor that I have not tried but I would expect it to work like the CQR.....

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Yes, most definitely try the Delta before you buy anything else.

After initially thinking my CQR did pretty well, I had a number of incidents in which it was terrible.
It was heavier than previous anchor, so that hid a multitude of sins.

I'm thinking about the Delta, which I think is clearly better than my CQR, but I'm not sure it's that much better.

So do I spend, spend, spend for the Rocna (33kg) or not?

It's hard to resist when my fellow Krogenites swear by it and have even offered up a number of first borns if dissatisfied.

Ditto Peter B. Our Delta 45 lb has worked very well holding our 44' MT along the Gulf Coast from New Orleans to Key West with all chain rode (typically 5:1 scope). The only time it drags on us is in soft mud bottoms such as you'll find in the bayous and upper bays along the coast. That's when we break out the trusty old 35HT Danforth (genuine, not one of the cheaper knock-offs). Good combination. Your Fortress FX-37 should work as well as our Danforth, even with all chain. Might want to experiment with changing the fluke angles on it.

I am not sure it's the design of the anchors as much as the size of them vs your displacement/windage. Isn't your displacement over 55000 lbs? A 45 lb anchor seems small. I would up the size significantly.

I think the answer is to get a Rocna and be done with it. It works in all environments exceptionally well. The CQR is too old school and Danforths (like the Fortress) don't reset well when you swing.

Your anchor is too small, it's the wrong kind and you don't have enough chain.

Seriously, try the Delta before you spend any more money. That advise is from a guy who would love to sell you a new anchor.

The Delta is a much better anchor than the CQR. I've used mine in mud, grass and sand. It sets and holds every time.

I agree the CQR is too small but it was what came with the boat. I will try the Delta and see how that works. As far as the Fortress on chain I read, can't remember where that since the anchor is so light if you use all chain it would sail above the chain. Not sure if that is so true with a FX 37 or maybe the next size up because they still have some weight to them.

Active Captain,
You sound a lot like our old friend Marin. "The CQR is too old school"
It's like now that we've got something new all the old stuff is junk.

I've not had experience w the CQR so no comment there.

Rodgerh said he's dealing w sand and that's a little like mud. I'd say Rodgerh needs more fluke area with a brand that sets well.

My take on the "all chain" is that chain helps setting but has little or nothing to do w holding. Seems silly to have an ultralight, ultra high performing anchor and then hook it up to a massive lump of chain. I'm still w Chapman on chain.

I think Rodgerh's problem centers around why he's not having good luck w the Fortress. The reputation of the Fortress is practically flawless.

A long shot is that Rodgerh is not laying out his anchor but lowering it in a heap (one spot) and then backing down. All that chain may be wrapped around the anchor rendering it useless.

The Fortress works great. I have it on about 15 feet of chain and the rest rode. The problem I have is the rode does not work with our windlass. I really should try both the Delta and the Fortress on all chain and see how they work. I agree though that even the Fortess is too small for a 58000 lbs yacht but it is a testiment to the Fortress that an undersized one works so well. If I did size up then I looked at the sizing chart for the Rocna and the 88 lbs one is recommended. Will 5/16 high test work with that or do I need to switch to 3/8 HT. I did not size any of this, the previous owner did and after we bought the boat he told us that he never anchored. There in lies the problem. Oh well, some more boat bucks going out I think.

I have about 175 ft of 5/16 HT chain.

Yea I'd say 5/16" is too small. Good for my 30' boat. Ask others about 3/8". I can't get my head around boats that big. I use 4' of 3/8" on my boat and think it's huge but it may be small on your boat.

You should probably consider splicing from nylon to chain. Most winches will work fine w either. I don't know how dependable the splice is but many here on TF use it and are very happy. With the splice yo can use any length of chain you want and not carry extra weight on your bow. One can have a very long rode if it's nylon. I have over 400' and it's a comfort when the engine quits. I try to minimize weight but many here think it's golden in any amount. Chapman says to use a short length of chain and keep the bulk of the rode nylon. I agree.

There are those here that swear there's nothing like all chain. And all the opinions you ask for will be different. If you need more input read our archives. Better take some food w you as there's lots to read.

manyboats said:

Active Captain,
You sound a lot like our old friend Marin. "The CQR is too old school"
It's like now that we've got something new all the old stuff is junk.

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I didn't say the CQR was junk. It's just that it continues to exhibit the problems that have been in CQR's since they existed. In things like anchors that have gone through a whole new generation in technology recently, it's time to throw out the old.

I don't suppose you only use a sextant for navigation, right? I mean, they still work and there's nothing wrong with them. But progress marches on and if you're considering a switch, switch to new technology designed to correct the problems of the old.

I also think that all chain is the only way to go on any larger trawler (40'+). Weight has nothing to do with that. It just makes for a better and smaller rode requirement. I have a Fortress 55 as a backup. I love the lighter weight - real benefits for me. But when I've used it, I'd only want it with all chain - and that's how I've used it.

5/16 is fine unless you don't want it to be a weak link...in certain circumstances.

Depending on the size and holding power of your anchor...you'll probably never test the strength of your chain...because the anchor will probably break out long before you even get past the safe working load.

If I did test it by riding out a hurricane...and I thought or saw that I elongated any links...I would say the $500 or so of chain did it's job and deserves a rest.

If I were the OP I would walk the docks in my area and see what other boaters are using for anchors. Brand and size. I would talk to as many of them as possible and see how their anchors are working for them. I would also examine my technique and make sure I'm not doing anything incorrectly. Anchoring is as much an art as it is a science.

There are some very expensive "new" designs on the market but it's hard for me to believe that they are worth the four to five times the cost of a conventional anchor that they are replacing.

rwidman said:

There are some very expensive "new" designs on the market but it's hard for me to believe that they are worth the four to five times the cost of a conventional anchor that they are replacing.

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Prices at West Marine for comparison:

75 lb CQR - $1,339.99

47 lb Fortress FX-85 - $1,069.99

88 lb Rocna - $1,239.99

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Throwing the Rocna overboard and feeling how it sticks in all conditions...priceless

Only someone who hasn't used one of the newer technology anchors wouldn't understand the value. Given that they're actually less expensive than older has-been anchors makes the exercise a joke if you're replacing an anchor. The specific example in this thread was a CQR. I fully admit that you can find cheap Bruce and Danforth knock-offs but again, the difference in performance isn't close.

Rogerh said:

We went out this weekend and I am about at the end of using our 45 pound CQR in our area. We have mostly sand or sand/mud bottoms. The CQR does not hold. We have a Fortress FX37 that out does it everytime but it does not work well with all chain. All chain works much better with our windlass. What anchor for our area do you think I should pick to replace the CQR? I also have a Delta 45 lbs anchor that I have not tried but I would expect it to work like the CQR.....

Click to expand...

I was a big cqr fan in the 80's. Anchored many a time in big winds and it saved my bacon. It wasn't easy to get it to bite but when done right we slept well. Fast forward 30 plus years I actually gave away our 315 lb stainless cqr last year. As a diver and having actually watched our anchors set, I'm done with cqrs. Last weekend I watched three boats with cqrs try to anchor upstream of our boat. Not a single one managed to get it to bite. One tried three times. Bottom line the new school anchors are a huge improvement. Do your own research and give one a try. They are that much better.

Sent from my iPhone

Consider Mantus. I have used one for the last year, from Virginia to Texas( 7 or 8 nights on the hook in Florida) and it has been rock solid. As soon as it hits the bottom it's set (w/ proper scope) and has never budged. I could not be more satisfied. It looks a lot like a Rocna but has a few differences.

A quick google search shows an 85lb in the low $600 range.

Rafe

Thanks for all the inputs so far. Yesterday I removed the CQR 22KG, I know it is too small. I installed the Delta 45 just as a test. It does not sit as well on our anchor roller but I am only using it as a test. Then I will try the Fortress FX37, (again too small but she has held us in everything so far) with the all chain rode and see how it does. At least that way I will have some test cases before I buy. I tell you after lifting even the small anchors I am leaning more toward the Fortrest if it will set well and work in the mud as well as the sand with the all chain rode. I will let you know how the testing goes. Thanks again and any other ideas are always welcome....

One other question. The Delta always comes out of the water backwards and I need to manually turn it. Would a swivle fix this?

rwidman said:

If I were the OP I would walk the docks in my area and see what other boaters are using for anchors. Brand and size. I would talk to as many of them as possible and see how their anchors are working for them.

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There is just one problem with that. Even today, here in Queensland, where the new generation anchors are all available, if I walk the docks, I am still amazed at how many boats are still equipped with CQR types. Especially in light of my own experience, and comments like this below from Cafesport…

I was a big CQR fan in the 80's. Anchored many a time in big winds and it saved my bacon. It wasn't easy to get it to bite but when done right we slept well. Fast forward 30 plus years I actually gave away our 315 lb stainless cqr last year. As a diver and having actually watched our anchors set, I'm done with CQRs. Last weekend I watched three boats with cqrs try to anchor upstream of our boat. Not a single one managed to get it to bite. One tried three times. Bottom line the new school anchors are a huge improvement. Do your own research and give one a try. They are that much better.

On reflection, I believe there are several reasons for this. One is simply that because CQRs are a shape that fits well on modern boat bows, and are fairly inexpensive, they are the ones sold with the boat. That, and the fact so many hardly ever get seriously challenged by the conditions in the very sheltered parts of our bay if they ever do anchor out, and I suspect there are many who mostly just anchor for lunch on day outings, so they are never given cause to doubt their anchor choice…until one day it fails them, that is...

If my current anchor has never failed to set or hold, how can anything be "much better"?

Well... It was fun while it lasted. Let the anchor thread meltdown begin! ;-)

Well, with apologies for pinching a Marinism, Ron, read my last sentence again. With a bit of luck, your anchor never will meet its match. What do you use, just for the record..?

Well back to the question.......... Will a swivle fix the problem with the delta wanting to come up backwards which causes me to go back down to the deck and turn it while coming up with the windlass for the last couple of feet?

Peter B said:

Well, with apologies for pinching a Marinism, Ron, read my last sentence again. With a bit of luck, your anchor never will meet its match. What do you use, just for the record..?

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A 33 lb Lewmar "claw". The boat came with a smaller no-name claw and while it never failed me either I thought it would be good to upsize before my month long cruise two years ago. The 33 lb model is the biggest that would fit my boat without modification.

Obviously, different boats and different conditions require different anchors but this one has worked well for me on the AICW and waters around Charleston, SC. We do deal with reversing tidal currents here so good ground tackle and good technique are important.

My 35 lb Delta has worked well in SW FL, except one time in mud. I have 50' chain and 150 ft of rode. The one time it did not hold in mud was when I was doing some windlass maintenance and had no chain.

Defender came to us one week with a Defender 1st special on swivels. I told them that we wouldn't promote a swivel in any way because I consider them too dangerous for use in most implementations. Just Google "swivel failure" for all the discussion you'd ever need about the subject.