Genset cost per KW hour

Nigel Calder has an excellent article in this months PBB working out the cost per KW of AC power and battery charging.

www.[B]proboat[/B].com/

The numbers are frightening the high side is $19.00 per KW.

Most boat yards will have a copy or two , sit down before reading the true costs of your noisemaker.

I would copy and post it , but dont know the copyright laws .

FF.

Thanks for the post. I will dig into it I would really like to see the break down. The link you posted would not open for me, but like I said. I'll dig into it.

Thanks again

Happy cruising to you.


H. Foster

So if you run a generator on the hook for 4 or 5 hours a day, you might burn 3 gallons of diesel, maybe $12 or $13. Tie up to a mooring, $25. Stay at a marina, $80. We like our cold beer and hot water, running the generator is a small price to pay. Price per KW is meaningless for us.

I'm guessing the thrust was alternatives to gensets...especially installed diesel sets...especially when many like me use them more to charge batteries than anything else.

I like my household freezer, I like my showers hot and beer cold too...plus the bag of ice or icemaker onboard...but there are other ways to have those things without dropping a minimum of 5K just for a 3kW unit sitting on a pallet.

If you already have a genset...then it was generally free with the boat purchase...but replacing the same sized unit (as in my case) with cheaper alternative energy sources and inverters...it's getting hard to justify the "initial" outlay PLUS operating costs...eliminate one or the other and it's a different story.

I am always intrigued by questions/discussion about 'alternate energy solutions' for trawler/cruiser.
Hypothetically, if I have a daily 600ah need, what are my alternatives?
What is the initial cost of product and installation?
Overall efficiency?
Short and long term maintenance need/cost?
Will this alternative solution operate in all environmental conditions?
Accessibility to a repair person and part in my cruising area?

I am sure there are more question and answer so feel free to comment.

Thanks!

I figure the cost of anchoring is almost as much as tying to a dock, with a lot less hassle. Being our gen set is old 1978 with 3000 hours on it, and it powers the hydraulic bow thruster I been sort of babying it. Cost about 10+ grand to replace. When out in open water I switch to the cruise gen powered by the 671, so its sort of freeer as there is no/little effect on the 671. Personally Boaters are fooling them self to think anchoring is cheap/free. Now if there is no dock to tie up to then there is not other choice, but its still expensive.

There is no justification for anything on a boat. I guess thats why its a boat.

As far as coming up with another way to replace all the energy a generator produces, its easy to say "I'd do something different"

Its allot harder to actually do it. It can be done, but I beleive the costs would equal or exceed the costs of the generator.

Besides...

I have an icemaker, and a clothes washer, and an electric stove, and lots of other high power draw items on my boat.

And I like every one of them.

And...

I like my super quiet Northern Lights Generator

FF said:

Nigel Calder has an excellent article in this months PBB working out the cost per KW of AC power and battery charging.

www.[B]proboat[/B].com/

The numbers are frightening the high side is $19.00 per KW.

Click to expand...

Fred - I can't get your link to open. Here are my gen set numbers:

- 7.5 kw Kohler gasser, orig 1977 from factory - runs like a charm. Re-manufactured some years ago (before I owned boat). In six years only prob was faulty fuel pump- quick/easy/inexpensive replacement!

- Powers all needs aboard our Tolly e.g. galley, fridge, batt charger etc.

- We usually run from 1 to 3 hrs per day... short time in morn and at eve.

- Avg 1.5 hrs a day X avg 3/4 gal gas per hr X $5 per gal gas = $5.63 per day X 4 day weekends = $22.50 per 4 day R&R cruise/hooking/swimming!

- Being a really cheep way to enjoy modern conveniences aboard boat... I'm all in for a big gen set - especially a Kohler!

- If needed - I will have professional rebuild accomplished. Not in the cards any time soon!

Happy Gen Set Boating Daze - Art

I could not find the story on www.proboat.com either but I would guess the depreciation of the gen set would need to be taken into account. For example $10K purchase price divided by 5000 hour lifetime is $2/hr before fuel, or maint costs. If you produce 4Kw per hour, thats $0.50/KwHr for depreciation. Add say 1 GPH fuel use for $4/Hr results in another $1/KwHr. Thats a long way from $19/KwHr. There must be high maintenance costs added somewhere along the way to drive it up to $19. I guess if you paid marina rates for all maint and did nothing yourself.

Sometimes it's cost driven, but more often a matter of personal choice??

When you go camping, do you want to:

Stay in a tent, sleep on the ground, cook over a wood fire, bathe in a bowl once a week, keep your food in an ice chest, wash your clothes in a river and poop in a hole in the ground?

or

Stay in an Eagle Motor home, sleep in a bed, cook on a stove, bathe in a hot shower, keep your food in a fridge, wash your cloths in a machine, and use a flush toilet?

I've done both. . . . but guess which one I prefer????

Edelweiss said:

Sometimes it's cost driven, but more often a matter of choice??

When you go camping, do you want to:

Stay in a tent, sleep on the ground, cook over a wood fire, bathe in a bowl once a week, keep your food in an ice chest, wash your clothes in a river and poop in a hole in the ground?

or

Stay in an Eagle Motor home, sleep in a bed, cook on a stove, bathe in a hot shower, keep your food in a fridge, wash your cloths in a machine, and use a flush toilet?

I've done both. . . . but guess which one I prefer????

Click to expand...

Wifey B:

Stay in a resort hotel? Is that a choice?

Neither of us has ever actually camped out although we've talked about it. Now we have slept for the night on the beach. As to an Eagle Motor home I'd definitely choose that over a tent and campfire and the bathing once a week, I could just not ever live with.

But it's a matter of choice. We boat for pleasure. Pleasure says we keep cool or warm at night depending on season, we keep our food cold, we wash clothes, we keep the watermaker operable, we have lights and television and computers. I know to some people that's almost heresy that we don't "rough it" but that's just not the way we are.

The cost per Kw hour is a moving target for us since the load varies during the generator run. We do estimate what it costs on a per hour basis though: ~$5.30. That's with fuel at $4/gallon, oil changes every 200 hours, some other consumables and replacing the generator (9 Kw) at 7,500 hours.

A creative person can make figures say anything they want. The IRS allows somewhere around $.55 per mile to drive a car. That's great if you use your car for business and can deduct that cost but does anyone ever figure that $.55 per mile into the cost of driving all over town to save a dollar on a boat part?

If you're pleasure boating you have to throw most of this stuff out the window. Besides, if you cut down your genset use because of the cost, the cost per KWH goes up.

For the person who posted that it costs as much to anchor out as to stay in a marina, that would take some pretty creative accounting to make that add up. You have your slip fee, electric fee, possibly taxes and user fees vs. pretty much nothing for anchoring.

...I would say that this discussion depends on where you live. Two persons from the Northeast USA can have this discussion. Now having a guy from the Northeast arguing about this issue with a guy from South Florida, makes no sense.
Just like the water purification thread. Can that discussion take place in India, for example??
FF, I would like to see Mr. Calder cruising in the tropics without a Genset, specially now that world temperatures are rising. In my home town this year since January 1st, we did not have a single day below 107F during the day and 94 during the night. Humity goes as high as 65%.

See? The need for AC power depends on your cruising grounds

Portuguese said:

...I would say that this discussion depends on where you live. Two persons from the Northeast USA can have this discussion. Now having a guy from the Northeast arguing about this issue with a guy from South Florida, makes no sense. Just like the water purification thread. Can that discussion take place in India, for example?? FF, I would like to see Mr. Calder cruising in the tropics without a Genset, specially now that world temperatures are rising. In my home town this year since January 1st, we did not have a single day below 107F during the day and 94 during the night. Humity goes as high as 65%. See? The need for AC power depends on your cruising grounds

Click to expand...

We run the genny whenever cruising and anchored.

I dont think running a genset typically leads to its demise..it is usually the opposite..underuse. my buds 60' charter cat got 15,000 hours on one and 18,000 on the second..both 20k units and they were frequently overloaded. I never think twice about using the genny and its fuel consumption...the oil changes are more of a p.i.t.a than anything.
Hollywood

Our 12KW Northern Lights is about .75gph no load and 1gph under load so three hours a day under gen is not free. We just finished a new Magnum MS2812 inverter charger Install today with an advanced battery monitor system, not cheap but a good way to check what's happening from the Used and available amp side of things

My 2K Honda cost $700 to purchase and even at full throttle, just burns 1 US quart per hour..about $1 in gasoline. If it runs at low throttle, it's 12-14 hrs per $4 US gallon of gasoline.

FlyWright said:

My 2K Honda cost $700 to purchase and even at full throttle, just burns 1 US quart per hour..about $1 in gasoline. If it runs at low throttle, it's 12-14 hrs per $4 US gallon of gasoline.

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Winner, Winner - Chicken Dinner!

Al, Only way to beat that gen set fuel cost is to have it pay you! Congrats!

Will 2 Kw run elect stove or oven (each seperatly during operation) and small elect fridge and 40 to 80 amp batt charger at same time? Inquiring mind wants to know - i.e. Me

Doubt if the decision on whether to have a generator or not is based on the operating costs. The new boat market is not as price sensitive as the used boat market. In the used boat market those who do or plan to anchor out a lot will select a boat with a generator. In terms of use the operating costs are important in deciding to put in solar panels or wind generators. I did operating costs comparisons and decided that both solar panels and a wind generator would have a reasonably fast payback in terms of reducing my generator run time. With 120 days a year at anchor, reducing run time by an hour a day saves $500 - $700 USD per season and pays for the wind generator and solar panels in four to five years.

Portuguese said:

...I would say that this discussion depends on where you live.

Click to expand...

The need for a generator and thus air-conditioning is very different in Florida in the summer vs New England.

The fuel cost to run my genny for 12 hrs with the air-con on is $45, that's irrespective of all other costs with genny ownership. About half the costs of many marinas.

Anyone basing the costs of running a genny on their decision to enjoy the boating life may well consider another activity.

If FF original post was to get people to thinking of alternative power sources, most posters including me defended the use of their genny's, so in that regard he or we missed the boat.

Not free, my boat is pure electric, I burn about a gallon an hour on the genset so running it 24 hours, 102 bucks a day. Marinas are about the same so staying on the hook can cost the same, now South Florida it pays to be on the hook considering I've seen marinas at 4 bucks a foot!!

I average about 1.5 hours of genset use per cruising day in the PNW. A small price to pay in the big scheme of boating activities. No heavy air conditioning use for us until well into Mexico, which is now on our no fly zone.

As mentioned by others, we too enjoy a non Coleman stove endeavor as e cruise.

Art said:

Will 2 Kw run elect stove or oven (each seperatly during operation) and small elect fridge and 40 to 80 amp batt charger at same time? Inquiring mind wants to know - i.e. Me

Click to expand...

While Honda calls it an eu2000i and it puts out 2KW max, it's rated for 1600W continuous output.

I don't have an electric oven, mine is propane, so I can't address the power requirements of an electric range. I run my small fridge on a 1000W inverter but it can easily be run by the Honda gennie while also running the charger (55A) and either a coffee maker or microwave or water heater. I don't run those last 3 at the same time due to gen limits. When I forget, the gen overload protection circuitry kicks in and the power output ceases, but the generator continues to run.

Ironically, the highest draw item on my boat isn't the microwave or the water heater...it's a small Keurig coffee maker at 1500W. To be a good neighbor, I keep a smaller 600W Mr. Coffee style coffee pot onboard for use with the inverter when needed in the early morning in an occupied anchorage. My microwave can also be operated by the inverter for an early morning breakfast.

If I needed air conditioning, this eu2000i wouldn't cut it. RVers parallel 2 of these together to run AC units. That really wouldn't be practical on my boat.

A beautiful anchorage beats a dock any day, whatever the costs!

Phil Fill said:

I figure the cost of anchoring is almost as much as tying to a dock, with a lot less hassle. Being our gen set is old 1978 with 3000 hours on it, and it powers the hydraulic bow thruster I been sort of babying it. Cost about 10+ grand to replace. When out in open water I switch to the cruise gen powered by the 671, so its sort of freeer as there is no/little effect on the 671. Personally Boaters are fooling them self to think anchoring is cheap/free. Now if there is no dock to tie up to then there is not other choice, but its still expensive.

Click to expand...

Phil: could I ask you two questions...I'm just curious. First, why do you have your hydraulic pump coupled to your genset rather than to a propulsion engine? And second, are you operating your cruisegen while underway because you run air-con underway or for some other reason? (or to ask another way....if not for air-con, why can't alternators+inverter keep up?)?

regards

We love to plug in at our dock - For bout 3 hrs it takes to load boat and wash off dust, launch our tow behind runabout, and pull awary from dock toward pleasures aboard!

We love to plug in at our dock - For bout 3 hrs it takes to offload, put runabout back into storage, and clean up till next boating visit!

I love to plug in at our dock - For occasional day long solo trip I make for maintenances.

We love to plug in at dock - For the very seldom multi day visits when weather is simply to damn messy to bother going out - that's in Winter only!

WE LOVE TO BE AWAY FROM DOCK, OUT ON OUR TOLLY BOAT – And. to use our gen set approx 1.5 hrs per day! We enjoy the freedom our self contained Tolly affords us out and about for multi fun-day fun-weekends throughout Spring, Summer, Fall...

If you own a boat – Actual cost of owning/running of gen set is basically a footnote on excel spread sheet for overall boat ownership expenses!!


BUT - Owning/running a gen set while out on boat ain't no footnote when it comes to assistances during cruising, anchoring and other available, affordable boat-use pleasures!


Happy GenSet Boating Daze! - Art

Art said:

Winner, Winner - Chicken Dinner!

Al, Only way to beat that gen set fuel cost is to have it pay you! Congrats!

Will 2 Kw run elect stove or oven (each seperatly during operation) and small elect fridge and 40 to 80 amp batt charger at same time? Inquiring mind wants to know - i.e. Me

Click to expand...

Art

We have a honda as well a an 8kw Onan. The honda will push both my battery chargers (40 amp pro mariner and 50 amp Heart freedom 10). It will also run a single burner on the princess range, but not while charging the batteries. It is a great little unit to have on board when you don't need the heavy lifting that the Onan can do. Also, with a pull starter, never any worries about dead starting battery. And as mentioned, it really is a fuel sipper.

-Ron

ronlord said:

Art

We have a honda as well a an 8kw Onan. The honda will push both my battery chargers (40 amp pro mariner and 50 amp Heart freedom 10). It will also run a single burner on the princess range, but not while charging the batteries. It is a great little unit to have on board when you don't need the heavy lifting that the Onan can do. Also, with a pull starter, never any worries about dead starting battery. And as mentioned, it really is a fuel sipper.

-Ron

Click to expand...

Thanks for input Ron!

Sounds interesting... You have it permanently affixed some location aboard with gasoline exhaust safely routed? And, if so, is it hotwired into your main elect panel’s applicable breakers?

>First, why do you have your hydraulic pump coupled to your genset rather than to a propulsion engine?<

This is the best hookup as most boats may wish to use the bow or stern thrusters while docking.
The propulsion engine is usually iat idle while docking , so little hyd power is available.

An 1800RPM noisemaker will provide whatever power is available from the size hyd pump installed, usually plenty for thrusters.

Also hyd boats will use the joy of hyd for loads of tasks , the windlass is happy as is the boat hoist with most small noisemaker spinning the pump.

A hyd pump on the propulsion engine is a good choice for cruising AC electric power , stableizers, and steering with AP.