Narrowing down the field

kthoennes said:

I don't mean to get all defensive just because we own a Carver - and now we're in the process of making an offer on a 3807 -

You'll hear people say over and over again that Carvers (and some other production boats) are not seaworthy, but I'm not doing a transatlantic either. From my perspective you get a lot of boat for the money in that class, they're not a million dollars, and I've found maintenance to be relatively easy except for engine bay access sometimes).

We don't like SeaRay (poor layout and use of space), Silverton really is cheap and flimsy, older Marine Traders seem to have port and seam leakage problems like crazy - but that's all just our own opinion and our own experience - have fun and spend time forming yours.

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In my experience, there's no significant difference in build quality between Carver and Silverton (and Luhrs, and Mainship), Cruisers, Sea Ray, etc. They're all decent Chevies -- or Fords, or Dodges, whatever you like.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

In my experience, there's no significant difference in build quality between Carver and Silverton (and Luhrs, and Mainship), Cruisers, Sea Ray, etc. They're all decent Chevies -- or Fords, or Dodges, whatever you like.

-Chris

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Tend to agree...big mistake by many is comparing different year or size groups...jump a few model years and there can be some vast differences even in quality.

Sometimes even which factory location has an effect on quality.

psneeld said:

Tend to agree...big mistake by many is comparing different year or size groups...jump a few model years and there can be some vast differences even in quality.

Sometimes even which factory location has an effect on quality.

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Yep, those too. Certainly a '90s or '00s boat is likely to have improvements over a '70s version of roughly the same boat from the same builder.

-Chris

ranger42c said:

Yep, those too. Certainly a '90s or '00s boat is likely to have improvements over a '70s version of roughly the same boat from the same builder.

-Chris

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Seems like the mid-90s brought the biggest improvements on all levels.

Thanks for the discussion folks! My dream is to retire in 5 years, sell the house and buy a 45'-50' boat to cruise Alaska & BC 6 months out of the year. Then either live aboard at a marina or stay at my girlfriends house in Federal Way, Wa.(although the dream of wintering in the Mexican Riviera sure has appeal, tough slog to get down there tho..). The worry is maintenance cost. 7-10k/year might be doable, and I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Then of course fuel and moorage for 6 months. Does this sound like a pretty realistic picture of ongoing costs?

whirrr said:

Thanks for the discussion folks! My dream is to retire in 5 years, sell the house and buy a 45'-50' boat to cruise Alaska & BC 6 months out of the year. Then either live aboard at a marina or stay at my girlfriends house in Federal Way, Wa.(although the dream of wintering in the Mexican Riviera sure has appeal, tough slog to get down there tho..). The worry is maintenance cost. 7-10k/year might be doable, and I'm pretty mechanically inclined. Then of course fuel and moorage for 6 months. Does this sound like a pretty realistic picture of ongoing costs?

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Obviously there are many variables, one being what condition the boat is in when you buy it. For most years 7-10k would seem doable. It might even be a bit high. However, the other part is being ready for major work. The biggest is an engine going on you but even things like generators can get expensive. When purchasing you need to make sure you save enough of your available funds to do those things you see an immediate need for but also to handle a major surprise.

Welcome.

Great Avatar
Sorry i did not think of it

He rarely has a good thing to say about them, and that flies in the face of thousands of very satisfied SR owners

Every boat is simply a TOOL to do a job , perhaps Pascoe has a different idea of what the job of Boat is from the thousands of SR owners..

FF said:

He rarely has a good thing to say about them, and that flies in the face of thousands of very satisfied SR owners

Every boat is simply a TOOL to do a job , perhaps Pascoe has a different idea of what the job of Boat is from the thousands of SR owners..

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Couple things. First that is a mischaracterization of Pascoe on SeaRays. he reviewed a few he liked. In his book, he calls them the most frustrating brand to figure out: some boats very good, some very bad, some a mix of both, some just mediocre. GM and Ford have made millions of cars... with the same mix of issues. Second, having witnessed many thousand of SeaRay owners in action, I would have to say I would not take their overall "vote" all that seriously. Just like the boats, there is a real mix, but they do market primarily to the first time buyer and casual user. I'd say each SeaRay needs to be evaluated on its own merits, which is Pascoe's ultimate conclusion as well.

Even in boats with quality reps, there are many differences. We have a saying at Krogen about "If you've seen one Krogen, you've seen one Krogen". In a boat, huge consequences come from slight over-sights. I've not found any huge mistakes anywhere in my boat, but an inadequate fastener and questionable welding, you bet. Art Kadey couldn't be there to watch everything on every boat. Jimmy Krogen (James Krogen's son) couldn't control every aspect of every detail. Sometimes an extra crew was needed on a Friday afternoon to do hardware installation...you know what I mean. To maintain consistency in the quality of one item has become nearly impossible since "global" marine construction began. Trying to do it with 10,000 items from companies that are doing what they can to squeeze-out enough profit to please stockholders or survive a downturn.....well.

I find most boat owners feel a certain way about their boats and then I ask...Have you ever lifted the deck away from the hull to really see that joint? Do you know the ACTUAL thickness of your hull from keel to sheer? Have you inspected numerous cores from your decks? Have you ever cut a few feet off your keel and replaced it???

Most of the time I'm lucky to get one "yes" in my list of questions and yet they are convinced some boat (often their own) is built "like a tank" or even "well"...

Sometimes I feel for their ignorance but often they press me for my experience with that brand/model boat and being honest I usually shock them with my response.

So most people who throw out any explanation of quality... usually have a fairly limited grasp of it unless they have seen the boat is all stages of assembly or disassembly.

I at first though Pascoe's explanation of how boats faired after hurricane damage was a pretty good indicator ....and while it is...there is more to the story on every hull/boat.

mlowery said:

I have been observing the forum for some time and know that there are many wise and knowledgeable skippers out there monitoring the site. After crunching the numbers, it looks like we will be ready to pull the trigger on a live-aboard trawler in about 8-12 months. But which boat do we go after? We will be looking for an economical sundeck with great bones between 36 and 44 ft with a galley up and something besides a vertical ladder as a means of entry from the dingy. Price range is between $90,000 and $150,000.

I am still working so unfortunately we will be spending a good bit of time tied to the dock. I do not want to cross any oceans but would like to have a boat capable of island hopping in the Caribbean. I have been following Gulfstar, Nova, Heritage East, Marine Trader, Present, and a couple of others. I have ruled out Carver because of David Pascoe's review and Mainship due to the lack of storage space.

Please give me your suggestions.

Thanks!

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This 44 Ocean Alexander seems to meet your criteria. Sundeck with cockpit for easy and safe dinghy (and floating dock) access. Large sundeck. Huge amount of interior storage space. Nice joinery. Efficient and bulletproof Ed Monk designed hull. Priced near the high end of your range. Good chance this one will be for sale at the end of the summer.

We've recently offered our 48 Hatters LRC for sale and have had 2 showings in the past week. Both buyers, seasoned boaters, wanted a boat with NO ladders. There previous boats had ladders.

Our boat has no ladders. While on the hook/mooring, the cockpit is accessible from the dinghy via the swim platform giving easy access to the salon/galley for loading of groceries, etc. And while at the dock the Marquit stairs are great. The flybridge is also easily accessible via stairs, port or starboard.

Sundecks are great, and so are flybridges, but access to either by ladder was not for us. And if you have dogs, getting on and off a boat with ladders is a bear, not to mention a possible safety hazard; especially in foul weather.

skidgear said:

This 44 Ocean Alexander seems to meet your criteria. Sundeck with cockpit for easy and safe dinghy (and floating dock) access. Large sundeck. Huge amount of interior storage space. Nice joinery. Efficient and bulletproof Ed Monk designed hull. Priced near the high end of your range. Good chance this one will be for sale at the end of the summer.

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She's a beauty. We have a friend that has the same model boat, and they LOVE her. Ed Monk, Sr was a great Naval Architect, and Jr. is as well.

Mystic said:

We've recently offered our 48 Hatters LRC for sale and have had 2 showings in the past week. Both buyers, seasoned boaters, wanted a boat with NO ladders. There previous boats had ladders.

Our boat has no ladders. While on the hook/mooring, the cockpit is accessible from the dinghy via the swim platform giving easy access to the salon/galley for loading of groceries, etc. And while at the dock the Marquit stairs are great. The flybridge is also easily accessible via stairs, port or starboard.

Sundecks are great, and so are flybridges, but access to either by ladder was not for us. And if you have dogs, getting on and off a boat with ladders is a bear, not to mention a possible safety hazard; especially in foul weather.

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The point about ergonomics, in this case stairs, is a good one. On many boats, fabricating a stairway in lieu of a ladder is fairly easy. Since we anchor out and use moorings a lot, we thought for sure we would replace the ladder to the swim platform with some sort of stair. The yard where the boat was when we bought it had done a few of these of various configurations, and one or two in the marina at the time, including another Hatteras. The sage and honest yard owner said "why don't you cruise the boat awhile, then see what you really want". Seven years and many many hundreds of climbs to/from the platform later, there is still just the ladder. We found it easy enough to get groceries, baggage, and other paraphernalia to the floor of the aft deck . We and our friends turned out to still be spry enough to climb a 6 foot ladder, even ones who initially thought otherwise. But I understand it is definitely an issue for some people with disabilities, and the type of thing that has to be taken into account when buying, as we did.

However, getting up to the flying bridge, a very important and heavily used venue on our boat, was another matter. My wife would look at boats with ladders (common to larger Hatteras MYs), even ones with partial hand rails, and ask "how am I supposed to get the cocktails and hors'oeurves up there?" So, when we found our boat this was the "closer":

I hate ladders!