Old fat men and engine rooms

If you like the size of the 32 GB, take a look at the ER on a 34 LRC Californian. It was designed and marketed to compete with the 32 GB.

The ER is full width (12+ ft) and approx 20 ft in length from the transom to the fwd edge of the salon near the steps. Like the Navigator (same designer Jule Marshall for Californian Boats/Navigator), the fuel tanks are aft of the engines allowing good all-around engine access. You'll still need to crawl or remove the salon hatches, so don't expect stand up room, but all components are accessible for this fat, old guy.

I have the Perkins 4.236 inline 4 engines and no generator. It gets a bit more crowded when you have Cat 3208s and a genset.

Here are a couple of screen shots from my ER cameras. There's about 3 ft of vertical clearance above the center aisle. There is another 12-14 inches outboard of each of the outboard stringers shown with stbd engine mount/port strainer. The 'bucket-o-rope' in the background is a standard 5 gal bucket and provides a reference for scale.

I find the Cummins 6BT5.9 engine in my Monk 36 quite accessible, about 18" clearance on Stbd side, 22" on port and 36" fwd to the generator. Sitting on the battery box or floorboard with feet under the engine makes for a comfortable work position. Limited standing with the covers off.

Thanks for the comments so far guys. We really want to stay below 40' due to the outrageous dockage rates in our "destination" area. I wish there were more slow boats available with engines installed under the aft deck running through V-drives like many of Bill Garden's designs. One of his boats I looked at years ago had an aft deck level with the swim platform and the single 672 sat there proudly right in the center of that deck under a table height engine box. Now that's easy access!

You wouldn't want my boat, George.

I'm not fat or old (by some standards), but can access my engine only by lying on my belly and hanging upside-down from above. Not fun - especially at sea.

To adjust my rudder packing, I exhale all my breath and squeeze my body into a small opening only slightly wider than my head.

If I don't post for a while, please send someone with a jar of vaseline.

Pretty good stand or stoop a little ER's under 50 include Gulf Star 44, Krogen 39, Selene 36. Great Harbour N-37 and especially N-47, MT 50, a couple of others I can't. recall right now.

Mine's not bad for a 30' boat w fuel tanks on either side of the engine. Originally the 2X4 floor joist went right across and one needed to crawl aft and under the floor to service lots of things. But some PO cut the joist and extended the opening well aft basically to the aft bulkhead. Huge difference. Have seen or experienced no indication it was a structural mistake. I'm glad a PO did it as I may not have felt it wise.

My separate heat exchanger is crossways on the aft bulkhead (black). To the right is my dedicated start battery. Ahead of that is the SS exhaust riser and mixer made by National Marine Exhaust. FG lift muffler is to port. To your left (stbd) is the hot water tank on the bottom, holding tank on the top and stbd fuel tank. On the side of my exhaust manifold is the Murphy Switch (orange). The exhaust manifold is steel. Not copper-nickle but extremely little rust.

I painted the floors w household floor paint right after this pic was taken.

To work on the front or back of the engine I frequently lay on a seat cushion on top of the engine. I may move the oil filter back on the right side of the engine and use a pan to catch leaking oil. I have a pesky oil leak so the remote oil filter isn't working out.

I have great access, except at the very forward end. This is amid ship, below the pilothouse.

If I can't stand up at least 75% of the time while working on or around boat engines and the accessory equipment - I don't purchase the boat - Period!! I simply will not crawl around on my knees bumping my heat off sole's under frame.

The type engine rooms/compartments I accept:

1. Walk in stand up

2. Salon sole that easily becomes wide open via very large hinged hatches

3. Cockpit that easily becomes wide open via very large hinged hatches

4. Low sole or cockpit with hinged engine box(s) that open(s) wide

Our 34' tri cabin Tollycraft has #2. A Uni we sold had #3. Chris I had was # 4. Never owned a boat with #1 - yet!

Following picts are our Tolly's salon sole hatches wide open. Easy open, in and out with wood slat walk path. Pretty much enough room for my 6'1" 240 lb 62 yr good condition bod to have fun time while playing with or working on the equipment.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

This entire discussion is making me think I need a different boat. As it is now, I tell my wife "I'm going in!" I wedge and twist and mash myself into a spot like a bullet in a rifle barrel. I need two people to do most jobs below the salon floor only because once I'm in there, I'm not coming out and I'm only wedging myself in there once, so I need a second somebody to fetch tools. If I ever had a heart attack in some places down there they'd have to use the jaws of life and cut away part of the hull to get me out. We developed a slow leak in a fitting at the top of the water heater last season and I just let it drip for the last couple weeks before haul-out (we disconnect the fresh water entirely when we leave the boat). I can see the leak with a flashlight but getting to it might take the removal of a couple of my vertebrae so I put it off until this season. All it needs is the tightening of one fitting, probably one turn of a wrench, but it will take me half an hour. So close and yet so far.

Art said:

If I can't stand up at least 75% of the time while working on or around boat engines and the accessory equipment - I don't purchase the boat - Period!! I simply will not crawl around on my knees bumping my heat off sole's under frame.

The type engine rooms/compartments I accept:

1. Walk in stand up

2. Salon sole that easily becomes wide open via very large hinged hatches

3. Cockpit that easily becomes wide open via very large hinged hatches

4. Low sole or cockpit with hinged engine box(s) that open(s) wide

Our 34' tri cabin Tollycraft has #2. A Uni we sold had #3. Chris I had was # 4. Never owned a boat with #1 - yet!

Following picts are our Tolly's salon sole hatches wide open. Easy open, in and out with wood slat walk path. Pretty much enough room for my 6'1" 240 lb 62 yr good condition bod to have fun time while playing with or working on the equipment.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

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Love those Tollys. Our first boat was an early 60's 32ft Flybridge Sedan. Had ER#3. The problem with 2 and 3 especially is that they are not very fun to open and use in a seaway. Just fine at the dock though. I'm about your size and age , by the way.

I think realistically if an engine isn't out of the boat on a stand or bench...then the headroom is less of an issue if you can comfortably get into a sitting or prone position and work from there.

Even in engine rooms with 7 foot headroom...you have to sit, kneel or lie down to work on most engine parts. I'd rather have the crawl comfortably in and have lot's of elbow room to lie down and work in mine than be a contortionist in the standup but crazy crowded engine room of the Hatteras I was last on.

Spacious, clean, well lit, organized (well laid out) with equipment installed with maintenance in mind to me are all WAY more important than plain old how tall is an engine room. The 30 seconds to crawl in doesn't equal the hours of yoga exercises you wind up doing when working on any installed equipment.

healhustler said:

Pretty good stand or stoop a little ER's especially N-47, MT 50, a couple of others I can't. recall right now.

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Plenty of Stand Up room for fat old man in a N-47. Also full access to the entire main engine from 360°. No stooping required for work on the top of the engine.

caltexflanc said:

Love those Tollys. Our first boat was an early 60's 32ft Flybridge Sedan. Had ER#3. The problem with 2 and 3 especially is that they are not very fun to open and use in a seaway. Just fine at the dock though. I'm about your size and age , by the way.

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That's a beautiful Hatt you have... bet it's FUN!

We seldom sleep at dock; love being on the hook to swim, party, sun, and play around gunkholen in our FRP, bimini topped, full windshield, 50 hp Johnson o/b, 25 to 30 mph cruise, tow behind Crestliner-Stinger 14'8" runabout that gets 21 +/- mpg!

I'm kinda guy who wakes early (way before others). When at anchor (or dock) I love to "play" in (check out) our Tolly's ER "stuff", as well as write log entries and general reading, during early morn... that's a good way for me to be, as this little toy boat is an “easy-does-it” gasser. Don’t ever want the problems that could occur. Careful is as careful does!

Salon sole's wide hatches are set up with piano hinges and pressurized lift rods so opening em up and having em stay that way is a snap. Commercial bungees are set up if needed for sea conditions to make sure neither tumbles down on me little head! You are quite correct... it's a bitch to need to be in ER such as this while in rough seaway. Been there, done that! Via my early morn ER “play times” seaway ER entry is supposed to be a non issue.

Our Tolly Toy Boat is for family R&R when time permits. Maybe some year Linda and I will just up and get a bigger vessel for some real costal cruising from Alaska to Mexico with SF Bay home port... time will tell! Our kids and grand kids can visit us at ports!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

boydski said:

plenty of stand up room for fat old man in a n-47. Also full access to the entire main engine from 360°. No stooping required for work on the top of the engine. :d

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+1

Many of the long range fuel efficient boats have in line straight single engine so there is room around the engine. DD and Cats use to be the most popular, but neither make a small in line straight engine. The Eagle has a DD 671 straight line engine that I can stand up walk around and access to all parts of the engine.

I have had some big people working in the engine room and they have said the Eagle engine room is one of the cleanest and nicest to work in. It sounds like most of you need a bigger boat!

Wifey B: Not that I intend to really do much in the engine room other than occasional checks of it, of fluids, of filters, of bilges.....but.....

While I am definitely not fat, I see no women have spoken on this subject and, yet, some of us have a different issue sliding by equipment and through tight spaces. Ummmmm......Think about why females can get through smaller areas if it's just up to their legs but males can get through smaller areas when the upper part of their body is involved. And I sure don't want to get burned there.......Just saying. Surely I'm not the only woman to ever face the problem.

Phil Fill said:

Many of the long range fuel efficient boats have in line straight single engine so there is room around the engine. DD and Cats use to be the most popular, but neither make a small in line straight engine. The Eagle has a DD 671 straight line engine that I can stand up walk around and access to all parts of the engine.

I have had some big people working in the engine room and they have said the Eagle engine room is one of the cleanest and nicest to work in. It sounds like most of you need a bigger boat!

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Treat the size and convenience of the engine room just as you do other areas in purchasing a boat. Then if it's tight, remember what you picked up elsewhere for the sacrifice there and remind yourself of why you chose the way you did each time you start to get frustrated.

I keep anticipating more progress by engine manufacturers in reducing the size of engines for the same performance. The biggest advancement I've seen is the use of Common Rail. That reduced the average weight of MTU's engines by 20% and the size significantly. I had the opportunity to look at identical boats, one with conventional, one with the newer and it's amazing how the tight spaces disappeared.

Boydski said:

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Boydski, you have better art hanging on the walls of your engine room than we have.

(In our case, it's a parts supply company calendar from 1997 .)

QB said:

Boydski, you have better art hanging on the walls of your engine room than we have.

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Thanks QB!

When we have gatherings on the boat, the men tend to congregate in the engine room for some "unknown" reason....

Guess we are out of touch as we never actually thought of artwork for the engine room.

Well kept ER's are an art in and of themselves! Nice art work, though... Boydski

For an engine room - the Great Harbour N37 and N47 have walk-in engine rooms. You can walk around the engines and stand-up while working on most items.

The Nova Scotia 47 had a great engine room but the draft on that boat moved it off my list.

QB said:

Boydski, you have better art hanging on the walls of your engine room than we have.

(In our case, it's a parts supply company calendar from 1997 .)

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Wow! I am impressed!

I get comments on the Eagle carpeted engine rooms. Hanging picture, now there is a thought!

Good point about headroom being not the end-all, be-all. To do work, you are going to have to crawl around anyway.

I set up my ER for 2feet of access around three sides of the main. Back is a little tight, but do-able. Genny and other aux stuff on shelves outboard of the 2foot slither spaces. It works. Can do almost anything without cursing. One of the few ER's set up by a mechanic!!

On a 38, you're not going to have standup ER unless the thing is built super tall. Just not a good use of valuable volume.

I often get hired to check out machinery when someone buys a boat. There have been several cases where access was so bad that I simply told the guy... Do not buy this boat.

I actually changed a starter on one boat without actually touching it. Designed and built remote tooling to reach between fuel tank and engine. Awesome white carpet and beautiful cabinetry over the engine. Well, I touched the starter once removed, but you get the idea.

That kind of crappy design is out there. Blows my mind.

I hate bumping my head. Being able to stand up , and then bend over to work on the top, side front and rear is a bid deal for me. Being bent over the whole time is just a no-go for this fat fella. The Hatt's generator is in a utility room beneath the galley w/ AC compressors, inverter and its batteries, thruster batteries, misc other stuff and spare part storage. It's a real nice and big full width room, but maybe 4 1/2 feet headroom. Working in the mains ERs is SO much nicer.

Love the art work in the N47; never thought of that and the wall space is available. How tall is that ER anyway? The only Nordhavn ERs s I recall being in, a 46, a 57, a 58 and a 62, I couldn't walk in, had to stoop some.

caltexflanc said:

Love the art work in the N47; never thought of that and the wall space is available. How tall is that ER anyway?

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The head room right next to the engines on the N47/N52's is more than 6' and there is nothing overhead to hit your head on, so no stooping. You do have to watch your head when going from Starboard to the Port side of the engine (lights fwd, dry exhaust aft).

The N46's and N50's do not have the maintenance strakes (slight bulges in the hull, photo below) that allow the engine to sit low enough to gain the 6+ feet of head room.

My recollection of the N46 that I checked out several years back was that the engine room was very difficult to fit into and had access via the shower stall or the master cabin. Made it absolutely a no go for us, even though at the time, I considered myself neither fat nor old!! I do understand that the newer N47s are quite different.

Boydski said:

The head room right next to the engines on the N47/N52's is more than 6' and there is nothing overhead to hit your head on, so no stooping. You do have to watch your head when going from Starboard to the Port side of the engine (lights fwd, dry exhaust aft).

The N46's and N50's do not have the maintenance strakes (slight bulges in the hull, photo below) that allow the engine to sit low enough to gain the 6+ feet of head room.

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Got it, thanks!

OK so I don't have art and it's not as pristine as it normally is, but heck, I'm in the middle of oil changes on the main and genset! Which, thanks to the Reverso pump ain't so bad! .

Dave

Unfortunately, aging and gaining weight usually go hand-in-hand, unless one is VERY diligent about diet and exercise (which I haven't been...). The engine room on our American Tug 39 is the same size as on our previous American Tug 34 which we owned 10 years ago. Back then I marveled at how easy it was to get in and around the machinery spaces. Now, not as much..... the engine room size hasn't changed, but I have, and an extra 20 lbs makes a noticeable difference.

Nonetheless, I've always been very happy with the access and size of the engine room on American Tugs. It's not a stand-up space, but plenty of room to sit and get access to all sides of the engine and other associated machinery.