Ideas of boats nearest these specifications...

Been evaluating boats for specific needs. We are looking to acquire an additional boat within the next year that will be used for looping (sort of continuous off and on) plus exploring all the inland rivers. Want also to be comfortable doing coastal cruising outside when conditions are good and not all ICW. So here are the basic requirements:

-New boat. Must be proven hull.
-Twin engines
-Flybridge
-Upper and lower helms
-Tender storage either on flybridge or in garage but not on swim platform. 11' Jet tender to be accommodated.
-Target LOA is 60'. Minimum is 55'. Maximum is 65'
-Galley Up
-Must have WOT of at least 24 knots and be able to cruise at minimum of 18-20 knots
-Maximum draft of 5'-6". Draft of under 5' preferred.
-Must clear 19'2" bridge. If arch is only item slightly more then can hinge it to clear.
-Must store adequate fuel for range of 220 nm at cruising speed and 500 nm at 10-12 knots. Probably means minimum of 1000 gallons fuel
-Must have watermaker
-Builder must have reputable history adequate to trust and financial strength adequate to believe the boat will actually be built.

We've reviewed nearly every boat in this range offered and have a couple of prime candidates at this point. I'd prefer not to mention those until hearing some ideas without prompting from us, but will as the thread go on tall you those we're considering. We will also look at suggestions and offer our reasons for considering or not considering or our concerns.

A couple of requests. Toss out boats you think fit or come close. We are more than willing to answer questions regarding any of our choices and reasons. However, we are not wanting to argue points. Don't tell us we shouldn't want something we do. What we should or shouldn't desire is for us to resolve. You may ask why it is important if you want.

Look forward to the group discussion.

While the boat may not fit the definition some have of trawlers, much of it's use will definitely be consistent with what trawlering is about.

BandB.

Fleming 55 fits to a T. Check out the spec sheet at Fleming yachts. Air draft 16' to the top of the radar arch. fuel 1,000 gal. water draft 5'. (Not your spec)Top speed 20 knots. twin power plants. LOA 55' 9". LOA with swim step and anchor platform 60' 9". Beam 16'. Hull proven. Tender on flybridge. Great lay out, roomy and well built. Company well respected and been in business since 1984 or 5 world wide.

Range with twin Cummins QSC 500 hp 2,000 Nm at 8 knots.

Water maker, power plants, Gen-sets your choice.

All the best to you in your hunt and happy cruising to you.

H. Foster

We're just across the bight from the local Fleming dealer, and they even lease a boatload of slips and do most of their haul-out/underwater work in our marina... so those are the ones that come first to mind.

The 55s look nice, but it's very obvious how much more room the much wider 65s offer. I dunno about air draft, cruise speed, tankage and so forth, but you can probably look that up easily enough.

The owners all seem pleased -- although of course they would, in discussions with those of us who have been less fortunate

Near as I can tell, the local dealer is a class act. They seem to really take care of their owners and the boats that we see.

-Chris

Have you looked at the OFFSHORE line of vessels.

ranger42c said:

We're just across the bight from the local Fleming dealer, and they even lease a boatload of slips and do most of their haul-out/underwater work in our marina... so those are the ones that come first to mind.

The 55s look nice, but it's very obvious how much more room the much wider 65s offer. I dunno about air draft, cruise speed, tankage and so forth, but you can probably look that up easily enough.

The owners all seem pleased -- although of course they would, in discussions with those of us who have been less fortunate

Near as I can tell, the local dealer is a class act. They seem to really take care of their owners and the boats that we see.

-Chris

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F-65 is better but the LOA with swim step and Anchor Platform is 71' 3'. Good on air draft at 17' 11". fuel 1,700 gal. Draft 5'. Has twin screws as well plus has a 18' 8" beam, but a big jump in price for new. Also Tony Fleming did part of the loop in his 65'. He was worried about clearing 1 bridge with his air draft. He cleared it only by 1 foot and had to pull down a bunch of stuff.

Both vessels will work.

Happy cruising.

H. Foster

BandB

In between the F-55 and F-65 Fleming has came out with a F-58.

Air draft 17' water draft 5'. LOA with anchor and swim platforms 65' 5". Beam 17' 6" fuel 1,450 gals with twin screws. I believe only 3 have been built thus far. 1 was at the Fl. boat show not to long ago. It may be worth checking out as well.

All the best to you and happy cruising to you.

H. Foster

Hatteras 60MY can do all those things in your specs for a new build. Much bigger boat than a Fleming 55, if not the 65 for that matter; faster too. Great layout. Ginourmous stand up engine room. And, made here in the USA for over 50 years. Also makes it easy to work with them in person on design and during the build phase.

Fleming

The quality and reputation of Fleming are great. The 55' a bit on the small side and the 65' with the 71 LOA a bit large, but not out of reason. The new 58' interesting. The one place the Fleming comes up a little short of what we'd like is the speed. However, I notice on the 58' they are offering optional MAN 800 HP's over the Cummins 500's. We had looked at Fleming but didn't realize they had the 58 now. Definitely worthy of consideration.

58 Moves to one or our current top 3 under consideration.

Hatteras

caltexflanc said:

Hatteras 60MY can do all those things in your specs for a new build. Much bigger boat than a Fleming 55, if not the 65 for that matter; faster too. Great layout. Ginourmous stand up engine room. And, made here in the USA for over 50 years. Also makes it easy to work with them in person on design and during the build phase.

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Hatteras was one of the top two on our list. Meets all specifications as long as the arch is hinged. Only place it would come up short of the Fleming just mentioned would be it has a traditional Hatteras bow so not the bow space of the Fleming Portuguese. Still though a great boat. Glad to see someone else mention it in the group.

Now although they offer it with dual helms, it seems everyone they've built has only had the upper helm. Definitely would want the lower too so would have to wait for a build. I don't know why not more lower helm as you give up not seating at the table and just lose one cabinet.

hfoster said:

Also Tony Fleming did part of the loop in his 65'. He was worried about clearing 1 bridge with his air draft. He cleared it only by 1 foot and had to pull down a bunch of stuff.

Both vessels will work.

Happy cruising.

H. Foster

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Needs some redesign to clear Chicago without having to pull down all the stuff. Can be done though with a hinged arch and mount the electronics on the arch. As is standard, would have to do what he did, remove all electronics from the arch and top. About like removing the mast from a sailboat I guess.

Offshore

Ron T said:

Have you looked at the OFFSHORE line of vessels.

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Have not seriously and not sure why so will relook. The 58/62 looks interesting. Cockpit more sports fisherman like than our preference but could be worked on. Not quite ready to move it up to the level of our top 3, but definitely worthy of looking at closer.

Found a review on Passagemaker of the 62. One nice thing too is accommodates a 14' tender.

Fleming 58
OA 60
Hat 60
Horizon 60
Outer Reef 63

No Man engine, Cat or Cummins a better bet

Hatteras is experience with installing hydraulic arches, and what is involved with the Loop. My boat has one. Another nice feature about a hydralic arch is it makes working on / cleaning whatever is mounted on it easier depending on the task, plus it snugs up the bimini nicely.
I have seen a 60 w/ lower helm. One option to explore with them for feasibility is not have a full helm down there; a networked MFD w/ electronic gauges, an AP remote to steer with, electronic engine controls for close quarters manuevering.

The bow is nice with a place to sit and for a sun pad.

And that engine room....



That guy is 6 feet tall. Also a fantastic stand up lazarrette/machinery space that on some boats is converted to cree quarters.

caltexflanc said:

Hatteras is experience with installing hydraulic arches, and what is involved with the Loop. My boat has one. Another nice feature about a hydralic arch is it makes working on / cleaning whatever is mounted on it easier depending on the task, plus it snugs up the bimini nicely.
I have seen a 60 w/ lower helm. One option to explore with them for feasibility is not have a full helm down there; a networked MFD w/ electronic gauges, an AP remote to steer with, electronic engine controls for close quarters manuevering.

The bow is nice with a place to sit and for a sun pad.

And that engine room....

That guy is 6 feet tall. Also a fantastic stand up lazarrette/machinery space that on some boats is converted to cree quarters.

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Plenty of room for the full helm. We've seen their previous 60 with lower but none of the current model. Still not an issue as they can and will do. And I knew they'd done the arches. So your 56 is arch with two bimini tops? First glance in the photos I thought it was Hardtop.

Even with the crew quarters the 60' has excellent space.

We have a friend who did the loop in a 72' Hatteras. Now that's just a bit big for looping, we think, and he did encounter a few challenges.

Well, you covered pretty much all of my picks....maybe I'd throw in a Marlowe 57.

Nobody's mentioned Grand Banks. I think any of the models starting with the 47 (maybe a bit small given your specs, but still a contender), on up through the 50's. All can go fast, have the desired range, and can be outfitted as you desire. There are even some late model brokerage boats that fit your specs and will save you a bunch of money, and perhaps more importantly, a lot of time waiting for a new build. I can tell you all about what it's like waiting fro a new build..... it's killing me....

Grand Banks

twistedtree said:

Nobody's mentioned Grand Banks. I think any of the models starting with the 47 (maybe a bit small given your specs, but still a contender), on up through the 50's. All can go fast, have the desired range, and can be outfitted as you desire. There are even some late model brokerage boats that fit your specs and will save you a bunch of money, and perhaps more importantly, a lot of time waiting for a new build. I can tell you all about what it's like waiting fro a new build..... it's killing me....

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You just hit the other leading one on our list. The Grand Banks Aleutian 59. The only concern I have on Grand Banks is the health of the company itself.

We will wait for a new build, it's just being sure they will get the new build completed. But we have the time before we'll be looping.

healhustler said:

Well, you covered pretty much all of my picks....maybe I'd throw in a Marlowe 57.

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I love the layout of Marlow's 57 and 61 which they've now replaced with a 58 and 62. I just can't find myself dealing with them based on some issues others have had, even if those issues have been more with larger boats.

sunchaser said:

We do appreciate all the great input.

Fleming 58
OA 60
Hat 60
Horizon 60
Outer Reef 63

No Man engine, Cat or Cummins a better bet

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I'd prefer Cats personally but we've also had very good luck with MAN's.

As to OA, they are no longer offering a 60'. 72' is their shortest.

As to Horizon, they do offer a 62 now, but the draft is 6' and only offer 705 HP engines as it's in their E series.

Outer Reef doesn't have the speed we're looking for.

BandB said:

You just hit the other leading one on our list. The Grand Banks Aleutian 59. The only concern I have on Grand Banks is the health of the company itself.

We will wait for a new build, it's just being sure they will get the new build completed. But we have the time before we'll be looping.

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For what it's worth, I think their builds are first rate. The build quality is outstanding, and all the equipment choices are top shelf. We have been very pleased with ours which is a 2009 model.

It's just one consideration, but take a look at the weight of a Grand Banks compared to a similarly sized Marlow or Horizon or other. The difference is all in the mass of the structure.

twistedtree said:

For what it's worth, I think their builds are first rate. The build quality is outstanding, and all the equipment choices are top shelf. We have been very pleased with ours which is a 2009 model.

It's just one consideration, but take a look at the weight of a Grand Banks compared to a similarly sized Marlow or Horizon or other. The difference is all in the mass of the structure.

Click to expand...

I also agree they are a well built boat.

BandB said:

You just hit the other leading one on our list. The Grand Banks Aleutian 59. The only concern I have on Grand Banks is the health of the company itself.

Click to expand...

Hopefully unrelated, but the Grand Banks website has been down for many hours that I am aware of, maybe more.

BandB said:

The only concern I have on Grand Banks is the health of the company itself.

Click to expand...

I haven't looked into it at all really, but are any of the boat builders doing anything other than just barely holding on? Is GB really in any different shape than the others under discussion? As a public company the ugliness is laid out for all to see, where most of the other companies under discussion are private and disclose nothing but happy thoughts.

They are not a fit for what you are looking for, but I can say that Nordhavn is heating up. I've been to the yard in China twice now and both times there have been at least 10 boats in build. It's nothing compared to the go-go days, but I think better than many,

harbor950 said:

Hopefully unrelated, but the Grand Banks website has been down for many hours that I am aware of, maybe more.

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I noticed that earlier. Probably coincidence in all ways as it appears to be a server issue. They are hosted by Zerigo.

twistedtree said:

I haven't looked into it at all really, but are any of the boat builders doing anything other than just barely holding on? Is GB really in any different shape than the others under discussion? As a public company the ugliness is laid out for all to see, where most of the other companies under discussion are private and disclose nothing but happy thoughts.

They are not a fit for what you are looking for, but I can say that Nordhavn is heating up. I've been to the yard in China twice now and both times there have been at least 10 boats in build. It's nothing compared to the go-go days, but I think better than many,

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Actually many are doing ok today. Most have made some progress since hitting bottom. Also, many have fewer internal battles being waged over control. Leading shareholder and CEO trying to sell, board turns down offer, he is fired. He recently got himself back on the board.

Now, that's not to say they are alone. Several builders have been sold. I know at least four in the US for sale today. There are a couple of US builders who seem to be nearly all commercial now. Nordhavn has openly written about the challenge when the market dropped and getting through it, a very open disclosure that I found refreshing. Meanwhile investors have purchased some companies and it's to be determined how that works out.

Now one thing GB has been successful in doing to this point is selling more stock when they must to raise money. How many times you can do that I don't know. But as a result, they are not short of cash today as many companies find themselves. While they have cut a lot of expenses, raised money by selling their Singapore plant, and made other moves, their costs of manufacturing still appear high to me. Going through a dealer network as they do also puts margins under pressure.

I follow closely some of the brands that have so much heritage. I want to see Hatteras succeed as I do Grand Banks. I'd hate to see Burger disappear. I would hate to see a brand like Nordhavn in trouble. Or Fleming or Kadey Krogen. While there are Chris Craft and Donzi today they aren't the ones that once were. No more loyal groups than the old Chris Craft and Post fans. And when one does die, I don't accept blaming the economy alone because others did something better or different that kept them going. Glastron and Larson were once bigger than Bayliner and Sea Ray.

BandB said:

The quality and reputation of Fleming are great. The 55' a bit on the small side and the 65' with the 71 LOA a bit large, but not out of reason. The new 58' interesting. The one place the Fleming comes up a little short of what we'd like is the speed. However, I notice on the 58' they are offering optional MAN 800 HP's over the Cummins 500's. We had looked at Fleming but didn't realize they had the 58 now. Definitely worthy of consideration.

58 Moves to one or our current top 3 under consideration.

Click to expand...

I had forgotten about the new 58' -- so if you go that route, take delivery here and all the dealer's underwater pre-delivery work will happen at the marina we're in... and I'll help you with the christening ceremony!

-Chris

ranger42c said:

I had forgotten about the new 58' -- so if you go that route, take delivery here and all the dealer's underwater pre-delivery work will happen at the marina we're in... and I'll help you with the christening ceremony!

-Chris

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Well, that's very kind of you. Now have to warn you, we don't break champagne bottles over our boats. Prefer to drink the champagne. Hope that works for you.

BandB said:

Well, that's very kind of you. Now have to warn you, we don't break champagne bottles over our boats. Prefer to drink the champagne. Hope that works for you.

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You don't need to break a bottle. Just pour Neptune/Poseidon a serving.

markpierce said:

You don't need to break a bottle. Just pour Neptune/Poseidon a serving.

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Wifey B: Well, we can't say here how we really christen our boats.....let's just say the tribute isn't to Neptune but to Venus, Aphrodite and a bit to Eros, Cupid, Himeros, Pothos, Peitho, Philotes, Hera, and Suadela. And those are just the Greek and Roman.....hehe

Since I don't know the superstitions of christening and you say pouring works, is it the same if you drink it and then......you know what......into the water? I'm guessing not.

Actually I do know much of the tradition. As it originated with ships I believe it is really to take place when the boat is first launched or floated. The logic was the extra stress hitting the water the first time put on a ship.

Am I correct that to appease Neptune, you pour the champagne on the bow and also place green leaves to insure safe return?

I do know how superstitious many are over name changes and retain names on boats that have absolutely no meaning to them. Things like names of kids or something related to occupation.

We do express our thanks that we are fortunate enough to have a boat and our hopes that no harm falls to anyone with it's use. Just really reminders to ourselves to take appropriate precautions and use it wisely.

Guess now I've taken this even further off topic but since it's my hubby's thread, it will be ok....

BandB said:

Well, that's very kind of you. Now have to warn you, we don't break champagne bottles over our boats. Prefer to drink the champagne. Hope that works for you.

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Absolutely! Gotta have priorities!

-Chris