ICW "Pirates". Have you seen?

Tom.B said:

Talked to someone close to the case tonight. Word is that he is considered a "fugitive from justice" by the Bahamian Government and he'll probably stay in jail there for quite some time. Will find out more this weekend.

In other news: Bradly Finn, the former military guy with the Pepito-Bismol pink boat died a couple of weeks ago. He was another one of the 4 boats taking harbor space in Oriental. When his father was in Oriental picking up his son's ashes, wouldn't comment on what will happen to his boat. Can't say I blame him for that... But the boat still sits there. No telling how long it will sit.

This is not an official news story... I just talked to a guy that has an inside track.

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Thanks for the update

...again I would love to know back to the point whether this guy got left high ad dry by some entity back in France or he really is just a knucklehead.

To go from "decent cruiser" to fugitive in jail from the few bits of the story I've heard reads like part of a paperback novel.

The French pensioner doesn't have to worry about being the victim of a boardroom pension scam ... that is the weapon of the American executive class.

Boeing's hollow victory - latimes.com

They had a revolution that pretty much put an end to what we are now seeing as "the new normal" for our own shrinking middle class.

We met a young couple with 3 kids on the Columbia last year that spent the winter on the river in a steel Sailboat. They would stay at a marine park for the limit, then law enforcement would move them. They told us they had bought the boat in LA and was heading to Ketchikan AK. Not sure what happen to them.

In the Portland OR area they have restricted squatters anchoring in the river to a 7-day stay, then they must move at least 5 miles.

Tom.B said:

Talked to someone close to the case tonight. Word is that he is considered a "fugitive from justice" by the Bahamian Government and he'll probably stay in jail there for quite some time. Will find out more this weekend.

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I imagine the Bahamian government has seen more than one of his type before. Under due process, they'll likely try to find out where he (they) belong, confiscate and auction the boat, and use the proceeds to deport them.

(Is that too logical? Maybe another process at play, but seems to be the sensible path)

I've never understood why if you abandon a car on the highway it gets towed within a day or two but you can abandon a boat in the town harbor and nobody is willing or able to get rid of it. It doesn't make sense to me.

Historically it's been 2 reasons...the law prevented it in many places compared to declaring a car abandoned and the cost of removal against it's worth at a junkyard.

More and more states are passing legislation making the removal of abandoned boats easier.

Don't know about ICW Pirates but we did come across this pirate ship in the Grand Lucayan Canal on Grand Bahama a few years back.

Here in the Port of Los Angeles, they will crush boats for free and have been for several years. The marinas place a lien against abandoned boats, take possession and give it to POLA for crushing. It has cleaned up many a scow and now we have better looking boats in the marinas.

It's funded by the port I think.

Capthead said:

Here in the Port of Los Angeles, they will crush boats for free and have been for several years. The marinas place a lien against abandoned boats, take possession and give it to POLA for crushing. It has cleaned up many a scow and now we have better looking boats in the marinas.

It's funded by the port I think.

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If a boat is in a marina and owes slip fees or anything, the marina can place a lien on the boat and do what they want with it (after some legal issues).

I don't think its that cut and dry with boats anchored or even if they've drifted onto shore. There are four sailboats and one cruiser anchored near my marina. The cruiser broke free and is in the marsh. One sailboat was anchored (or drifted) right outside the marina and the marina could find nobody to do anything about it. The owner owes two different marinas but this boat was anchored (more or less). Finally, it broke free and drifted into the marsh. The owner came and moved it downstream and anchored it again.

The law either can't or won't do anything about these boats.

BTW: No anchor lights and no anchor balls.

I have a lot of sympathy for these boats. Vancouver has cleaned up False Creek by clearing out the "homesteaders" but I decry the uniformity, the regimentation and the boring conformity.

When I was a kid it was possible to build a float house and live on it, many float homes built on giant cedar logs. It spoke to me of a freedom that no longer exists. Now to live on a boat in our harbours takes money for the fees the city gouges out of you, and there are only a very few liveaboard slips.

Society never likes outliers or eccentrics or people just going their own way because they don't drive their kids to school in SUVs and they're not predictable.

I think it's our loss.

Xsbank said:

I have a lot of sympathy for these boats. Vancouver has cleaned up False Creek by clearing out the "homesteaders" but I decry the uniformity, the regimentation and the boring conformity.

When I was a kid it was possible to build a float house and live on it, many float homes built on giant cedar logs. It spoke to me of a freedom that no longer exists. Now to live on a boat in our harbours takes money for the fees the city gouges out of you, and there are only a very few liveaboard slips.

Society never likes outliers or eccentrics or people just going their own way because they don't drive their kids to school in SUVs and they're not predictable.

I think it's our loss.

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Clearing out people like those on Primadonna is our loss? I hope you're not saying that. People who shop lift. People who beg and steal from all those around them. People who fail to follow even the most basic of laws? People who dump their raw sewage in the area our kids like to ski and swim?

Eccentrics I like. Thieves and crooks, I don't like. Those who take advantage of the kindness of others and abuse those who aid them, i don't like.

There are creeps and jerks everywhere and in the marine case, it has resulted in the sanitizing that lots of communities are doing with their harbours. You always get quotes from rich people who decry their diminished waterfront views.

Where do you think these people go when their boats are crushed?

As somebody else said, lots of cruisers "sail close to the edge" and I'm sure lots of normal, otherwise disadvantaged people get damaged by the silly rules. It's like racism or stereotyping, lots of innocent people get hurt.

Trying to control every aspect of society is too "1984" for me.

Last thing I never want to hear at my own funeral is "he had a really clean House." I want them to talk about my adventures!

Xsbank said:

There are creeps and jerks everywhere and in the marine case, it has resulted in the sanitizing that lots of communities are doing with their harbours. You always get quotes from rich people who decry their diminished waterfront views.

Where do you think these people go when their boats are crushed?

As somebody else said, lots of cruisers "sail close to the edge" and I'm sure lots of normal, otherwise disadvantaged people get damaged by the silly rules. It's like racism or stereotyping, lots of innocent people get hurt.

Trying to control every aspect of society is too "1984" for me.

Last thing I never want to hear at my own funeral is "he had a really clean House." I want them to talk about my adventures!

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I'm not talking about a group of people. I'm not talking about those living on the edge. I'm talking about those on Primadonna. They are a very poor choice to use to champion the rights of others. In fact, they do tremendous harm to the rights of those who just want to anchor and mind their own business or be good citizens. They are not a cause.

I am more than willing to help those in need and to be tolerant of others. But I am not willing to assist those like Primadonna. That's not trying to control every aspect of society. They shoplifted and stole and no one locked them up, nor would I have encouraged it. But then they just did more. They are not the poster children for the rights of others.

Xsbank said:

I have a lot of sympathy for these boats. Vancouver has cleaned up False Creek by clearing out the "homesteaders" but I decry the uniformity, the regimentation and the boring conformity.

When I was a kid it was possible to build a float house and live on it, many float homes built on giant cedar logs. It spoke to me of a freedom that no longer exists. Now to live on a boat in our harbours takes money for the fees the city gouges out of you, and there are only a very few liveaboard slips.

Society never likes outliers or eccentrics or people just going their own way because they don't drive their kids to school in SUVs and they're not predictable.

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I have no problem with the outliers that want to do their own thing. My problem comes when they expect society to provide food stamps, health care, legal protection, clean up the mess when their boat / raft sinks, and on and on. If you're going to be artistic, an outlier, or whatever you want to call yourself, please have the decency to be self sufficient in the process!

Ted

I don't see this as being any different than the guy down the street who has the 94 Mustang up on blocks with the hood up and the lawn hasn't been cut for, well, never. We all hate them and wish they would go somewhere else until you find out that it's a single mother working 2 jobs.

I don't know what I'm trying to say except to decry the lack of tolerance and to question the amount of unhappiness is being aired on this site, caused by one down-and-outer. There is way more thievery on Wall Street but they dress better.

Not everybody can be middle class. I don't resent giving some dollars to a panhandler but I get intensely annoyed when I open the door for someone and they don't say thank you.

Maybe I'm one of "those" people? What a concept.

Xsbank said:

I don't see this as being any different than the guy down the street who has the 94 Mustang up on blocks with the hood up and the lawn hasn't been cut for, well, never. We all hate them and wish they would go somewhere else until you find out that it's a single mother working 2 jobs.

I don't know what I'm trying to say except to decry the lack of tolerance and to question the amount of unhappiness is being aired on this site, caused by one down-and-outer. There is way more thievery on Wall Street but they dress better.

Not everybody can be middle class. I don't resent giving some dollars to a panhandler but I get intensely annoyed when I open the door for someone and they don't say thank you.

Maybe I'm one of "those" people? What a concept.

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It is amazing that somehow one boat with two people on it becomes a symbol for everything wrong with the world and if you don't wish them harm, then you're the reason things are screwed up. You're right, it's one boat. It is a curiosity to try to follow the story but they don't represent any group of people. They're certainly not typical of liveaboards.

I'm just cranky coz it's snowing here and I can't get to my boat. Had a week planned on her with my wife, for some repairs and a break. My marina, which I am very pleased with, is at the end of a very steep and winding road and I really should have bought another SUV. 8^)

Xsbank said:

............. When I was a kid it was possible to build a float house and live on it, many float homes built on giant cedar logs. It spoke to me of a freedom that no longer exists. Now to live on a boat in our harbours takes money for the fees the city gouges out of you, and there are only a very few liveaboard slips..............I think it's our loss.

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Before Europeans came to America, Native Americans (Indians) lived where they pleased, ate where they pleased and pooped where they pleased. If there was a way to reduce the population of America to those levels, people could again have the freedoms you long for.

That's not going to happen and with the number of people living in close proximity to each other, rules are necessary. Pooping into the drinking water is a problem.

There are still places on this earth where people can do as you suggest, but not in the harbor of a large city.

Xsbank said:

I don't see this as being any different than the guy down the street who has the 94 Mustang up on blocks with the hood up and the lawn hasn't been cut for, well, never. We all hate them and wish they would go somewhere else until you find out that it's a single mother working 2 jobs..............

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Is it an issue if you have to look at their mess every time you leave or return home? If you have to explain this to friends and family who visit your home?

Is it an issue if you're trying to sell your home and it won't sell or you have to take a several thousand dollar loss because of this eyesore?

There are places where people can live like this without hurting the quality of life and property values of other people.

BTW: There are people who will haul the junk car away for free or even pay a few hundred dollars for it. How hard is it to mow the grass every couple weeks? How hard is it to have a little pride in your self and home?

I give up.

Gone Boating

BandB said:

It is amazing that somehow one boat with two people on it becomes a symbol for everything wrong with the world and if you don't wish them harm, then you're the reason things are screwed up. You're right, it's one boat. It is a curiosity to try to follow the story but they don't represent any group of people. They're certainly not typical of liveaboards.

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Or you could look at it another way...how did 2 people piss off so many others when literally hundreds if not thousands of boaters stop/stay in Oriental every year?

My boat is far from pretty...did I get tossed out on my butt???? No because it looks like I am trying, not needy, and maybe a bit more polite.

It's not easy to become a poster child for anything...you have to beat out quite a few qualified people...and that couple did....

though there was a close second there for awhile....never did hear what happened to him...

Here is the latest update:

Wednesday February 26, 2014
In early January the news was that SV Primadonna had gone aground on Bobby Cay Island in the Bahamas. Booby Cay is a tiny island of 300. It was reported that the vessel & crew entered the Bahamas without checking in with authorities. This is a big no-no in the Bahamas.

Today, Pat Stockwell has a Primadonna update:

The good news is the dog is okay. The bad news is Mayaguana now has a non-diveable wreck in Boobie Lagoon.

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Utica Lightbourne, on Booby Cay, sent Pat this info early this week:

About three weeks ago they (Pascal and Monique, the Primadonna crew) were escorted off the island by the police and Island Administrator and to my knowledge were handed over to the French embassy. The boat is still aground here. My brother in law has the dog. And I guess the boat will just stay there until someone frees it but i don’t see that happening right now as we have the only boat large enough to pull it and we were never paid for towing it.

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It sounds like this may be the end of the line for the voyages of SV Primadonna.

karma .......

Actually many things can happen at the discretion of the Bahamian officials and courts. The basics are:

Normally illegal entry results in deportation. This could be paying a fine and being sent away on their own boat in the direction of their home country or another country which they could legally enter. If they were unable to leave on their own, eliciting help from the embassy would not be unusual.

A lien is placed on the boat and it can be up to $1500 per passenger entering illegally. If the amounts of liens on the vessel exceed it's value, the Bahamian government may destruct the vessel.

Now what normally happens in circumstances like this one is the persons are deported after being held for a brief time. If their boat is sailable, they could be deported on it and prevented from re-entry. If not, some means of deportation would be arranged with the French Embassy.

So this may or may not be the end. They could well end up right back on their boat and sailing away. Or they'll end up just flown home.

psneeld said:

Or you could look at it another way...how did 2 people piss off so many others when literally hundreds if not thousands of boaters stop/stay in Oriental every year?

My boat is far from pretty...did I get tossed out on my butt???? No because it looks like I am trying, not needy, and maybe a bit more polite.

It's not easy to become a poster child for anything...you have to beat out quite a few qualified people...and that couple did....

though there was a close second there for awhile....never did hear what happened to him...

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Yes, and one would assume you don't steal and you're legally in the country.

Also, one note. They did not get tossed out on their butt. They left on their own accord after running their scam on the check. The town of Oriental lacked the power to get them to leave even if they had wanted to do so.