The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

West Marine online catalog lists* Rocna anchors and prices.*The Rocna is competitively priced and for anyone buying a new anchor should be a benchmark.

Galvanized alloy shackles are much*stronger than a similar sized SS. SS is not good for any part of an anchor rode except at the dock.

Anchors are a interest of mine. I have currently a CQR and a Bruce on our 40' Endeavour sailboat with a lofrans tigres windlass. I have not much confidence in either anchor for a real blow.
I have never had to anchor in winds over 25 knots yet so its only academic, but when I look at a lot of trawlers on yachtworld (pictures of course ) I see what I would consider very in adequate ground tackle. Now many of these boats, like me probably never had to anchor in high winds, yet is is always conceivable that it will be done.
Not having any experience with the FORFJORD anchor, what do you all think of that ?
The Navy seems to like the Fortress, and the new generation Rocna or Manson supreme are highly regarded by the people that use them. They sometimes say they set TO hard and fast, and bring up the sea bed when being retrieved.
A good wash down pump should take care of that....

nomadwilly wrote:I thought everyone agreed the Bruce was a good setter....... How much would a 22lb Rocna in galv cost?


Eric Henning

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The Bruce does set well in a variety of bottoms.* That's the main reason we bought one right after we bought the boat.* The problem is when the pressure on the anchor becomes enough to pull it out.* The Bruce's very poor holding under high load is well establshed by countless anchoring tests.* Under a high load, when the anchor comes out it tends not to set again firmly but go into this set-unset-hop routine.* As long as the anchor is not required to deliver a lot of holding power--- which its design prevents it from doing--- it does just fine.* But under a high load, it pulls out and then the hopping pattern can begin.* This is what we experienced and is the main reason we were prompted to look for something better.

As to how much a Rocna costs, they are now carried by West Marine so you can look the prices up there.* They are Not Cheap.* We paid almost $900 for our Rocna 20 (44#) but this was a number of years ago when Rocnas were much harder to come by in the US.* In fact, we drove to Canada to get ours. * I suspect that with the much broader distribution Rocnas have today the prices have probably come down some since then.

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SeaHorse II wrote:

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Marin wrote:They told me the anchor would sit with the shank up and wanting to launch and it would need to be held back. Smith designed it this way on purpose--- in fact it's a characteristic they point out in their literature.

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This better illustrates my point in the previous post. You must go forward to launch the anchor.

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It will depend on how the anchor is carried on the boat.* In any event, I don't care if I have to go forward to launch the anchor.* I have to anyway to operate the windlass. We won't have a remote windlass control on our boat, nor would I use one if we had it.* We like to see exactly what the anchor and rode are doing going out and coming in.

What I do like abut the Rocna's balance is being able to simply release the preventer and the anchor is ready to go.* None of this leaning over the pulpit at an awkward angle to shove the anchor forward until it goes on it's own, juggling the power out and slack and how forward the anchor is to keep it from suddenly dropping off the pulpit and hitting the end of the chain with a jerk and then swinging into the bow and so on.* I simply release the preventer, step on the power out switch and the anchor slides smoothly off the pulpit and down into the water, all the time with tension on the chain.* No jerks, wild swings, etc.* Compared to the (minor) hassle of launching the Bruce, it's lovely.

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-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 18th of May 2010 12:20:02 PM

SD:

That's an old photo....new SS swwivel....I know, I know, I shouldn't use a swivel anywhere in the anchoring system. ( It looks dams good and I don't anchor that much.)

Holy flit Marin * * ... the Bruce's actually pull OUT?? Dragging a bit may/could be tollerable but pulling out of the bottom w appropriate scope and rode is totally unacceptable. OK Marin I'll stop talking about the Bruces. I looked at a big one on a fish boat about an hour ago and noticed the outboard tips were very blunt. I sharpened the point of my XYZ and am ready to try it again. I'll look at those Rocna's again * *.. if I can get a 20lb Roc for under $400 I may do it. I like the probability that they do rocky and mud bottoms both.

Eric Henning

SeaHorse II wrote:

SD:

That's an old photo....new SS swwivel....I know, I know, I shouldn't use a swivel anywhere in the anchoring system. ( It looks dams good and I don't anchor that much.)

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Please refresh my memory as to why one shouldn't use a swivel anywhere in the anchoring system.

Bob,Welcome to the chat house. We've been complimenting and worshiping each other for a long time now and that's a good thing for you as you can go back in the archives and learn a lot if your'e good at separating fact from the other kind of fact.
I have a small Forfjord Anchor. Only tried it once. It failed to hook up on what I suspect was a hard bottom as my XYZ anchor wouldn't set either. I'm not impressed when a heavy anchor won't set. My properly forged Danforth brand anchor hooked right up and held. I was on a shallow river delta in Rocky Pass west of Petersburg. The Forfjord is the most popular anchor on fish boats in Alaska. Fishermen don't analyze things * *.. they just do what more experienced fishermen do. I'd say 85-90% of the fishing fleet uses the Forfjord or the Bruce. You should know though that fish boats NEVER have small anchors. Frequently you'll see 100lb anchors on boats under 50'. SD * * .. do you think that's a fair statement?


Eric Henning

nomadwilly wrote:

Holy flit Marin * * ... the Bruce's actually pull OUT??

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Eric---

Peruse the various anchor tests that have been run for years by magazines, the Navy, etc., etc., etc.* The Bruce is always at or near the bottom in terms of holding power.* In other words, they drag and/or pull out under loads that most other anchor designs can continue to hold.

The Danforth/Fortress is almost always at the top of the list in terms of holding power IF.... the tests are run in bottoms that are suitable for that design of anchor.* This is typically mud or sand or combinations thereof.

The advantage of anchors like the Rocna, Sarca, Manson Supreme, and perhaps other "new generation" anchors like the SuperMax is that they combine the "sets in lots of bottom types" ability of an anchor like the Bruce with the very high holding power of anchors like the Danforth/Fortress. Sort of a "best of both worlds" thing.

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And that's why they use heavy anchors Eric. Precisely because of the meaning of all the preceeding discussion. In other words, most anchors when really put to the test do badly, unless one uses heavy rode, preferably all chain, and a heavy anchor. The anchor then is seldom really ever put to the holding test...it's just sitting on the bottom marking the end of the chain. Fishermen don't often anchor - when they do they are always in a hurry - they want to ba able to just dump it daown and get on with whatever they need to do - weight talks - their boats can carry it. It's when things get nasty - which we all normally try to and do avoid - most of the time - that that results start to sort the wheat from the chaff. That is when these new generation anchors stand up and get counted. Most of the boats moored closish to shore that survived the tsunami in Thailand and alsewhere were swinging on Sarcas, for example.

I have used a plough anchor on large commercial vessels for years and yes they drag on occasion however so do all the others
The main issues with amateur boaties is as I see it;

Scope too short
Anchor is not dropped properly
Not enough chain or chain too light
And most of all the anchor is too light.

Most books that have the anchor sizes don't take into account the extra weight or windage of some vessels.

A plough deployed properly will hold as well as a lot of other anchors

Allan

Allan;
Get with the program. This thread is about slagging the Bruce, not expressing any love for other kinds of anchors.
Sure your plough will hold occasionally, but we aren't interested, thanks.
Oh, did I mention, I have used a CQR for 25 yrs, and yes I have dragged. When I dragged, I had a couple of other boats rafted to me and the wind came up, so my 44#, rated for my 44ft boat, was trying to hold a fleet. And no, that experience didn't deter further multiple boats on one anchor.
In normal anchoring, with just me, no problem.

I don't think the thread was directed at slagging any kind of anchor, per se, but triggered by several mentioning the move to a new anchor being one of their 5 best innovations. Then followed an exploration of why and with what, the aim being, certainly from my point of view, to encourage others to step out of their anchor mind-set, and consider there might now be something better out there? Like with all equipment - improvements occur. Why miss out on one if its worth having a look? I'm off tomorrow night taking my boat down to the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show, hoping to see new things, and get new ideas....maybe find something that works better than what I've got. It was at this same show about 6 yrs ago I saw the Sarca demonstrated and was 'sold'. Never regretted it. The CQR is now my spare/stern, anchor, and there it will stay.

But Peter, a Sarca cannot compare to a Rocna. Complete different spelling. Your Sarca*is just trying to ride on the Rocna's coat tails.

On a more serious note, how far do you normally travel on a boating weekend? What kind of weather do you normally encounter?

Peter

good to see you are taking your boat to the show you can carry a lot of goodies home on that
and add to the 5 best improvements list

Allan

sunchaser wrote:

But Peter, a Sarca cannot compare to a Rocna. Complete different spelling. Your Sarca*is just trying to ride on the Rocna's coat tails.

On a more serious note, how far do you normally travel on a boating weekend? What kind of weather do you normally encounter?

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Tom, you're being a bit mishievous there, as actually, to be a bit pedantic, from dates gven on both web sites, the Sarca predated the Rocna by a year or two.* However, freely admit both excellent.
As to distance we travel and weather....?* Near perfect weather for boating here in Queensland virtually year round.* In fact I sometimes think the Winter the best, as one can enjoy the sun, without wanting to hide from it, and also enjoy snuggling up in the bunk at night, as often 7-10 degrees C overnight and then 25 in the day, whereas in summer nights are warmer - some even have aircons - av about 18-22, and in the day up to 34C - seldom more on the water.* I'll leave it to you to convert that to degrees F - we haven't used that system for yonks.* We don't often pine for air out on the boat, but certainly have it at home.* As to distance - most day trips about 20 -30 nm - weekends up to 100nm - not a lot more possible unless one leaves the Bay and goes coastal.* I never have the time for that unfortunately.
Yes Allan, lookig forward to the show, tho mainly for ideas to plot and plan for rather than buying then & there.* But have been known to lash out for a boat show special.* I might take some pics on the old cameraphone and post the odd good one.* Are you going?* If so, give me a call on 0411 097 794 if you're there Saturday.

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-- Edited by Peter B on Thursday 20th of May 2010 06:56:01 AM

Hi Peter
Not going to the show this year but maybe next year
Busy surveying now boat Cheoy Lee 32
Owner has accepted offer

Allan

Ah ha - closing in eh? Good onyah. Best of luck with that - give me a call and let me know how it all goes. Exciting times ahead....? Oh, and by the way, don't let the survey throw you too much. He'll quite likely find plenty, but as long as there is nothing huge and expensive, you can do a huge amount yourself. There's not a boat out there that's perfect, but most issues aren't lethal, and are fixable, or mainly cosmetic and can wait. Like that staining round the head porthole.....

Peter
How did the boat show go.
I went down on Thursday with a mate of mine.
JHave always made a habitb of going on opening day.
Boats and stall reps are fresh and always happy to chat to we punters.
Had a fantastic day, first launch in and last launch out.
One day I will arnage to have Tidahapah in service and anchor up for a couple off show days,
would be so less stressful and more fun.
Went ove a lot of boats , both of us looking at ideas, my mate has a 61" Norman Wright that is an X charter boat and ready for a refurb.
Took it fior a drive the other day what a beautiful boat.

The show, the Flemming 65 was an absolute cracker.

Benn

Guys, the boat show was fantastic.* We motored down on the Friday night, as my son wanted to do some night navigation, which we did, and arrived safely, but not totally without incident, thanks to a couple of boats moored unlit and in the river channel up to Sanctuary Cove.* Fortunately we missed them, thanks only to the fact I was huggng the right side of the channel, because even though we were keeping a good look out, they were invisible against the backdrop of a lot of brightly lit dwellings on the riverbank until we were virtually upon them.* We anchored just downriver 200m from the Cove entrance, and although it rained overnight, we woke to a beautiful day, had a great breakfast and then hailed the local Volunteer Marine Rescue people on the VHF, who were ferrying folk from their boats across to the show for a donation per person.* Got in early - had a good time looking at everything in general, and a few special boats and displays in particular.* Headed back home mid-afternoon in lovely sunny weather and all in all, had a great time.* I have posted a few standouts below.* Walt, (Seahorse), if he's looking, will be interested in the new Islang Gypsy (Halvorsen), 34.* I loved the Nordhavn 47 & 43s* and the Clipper 36 was impressive as well.* There were boats going from the sublime, to the ridiculous, in that order below.