Not a good way to start the day....

psneeld said:

Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.

I have waited often on salvaging boats because the owner and salvage company have gone round and round over this issue.

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True depending on the policy language. True Yacht policies (based on coverage vice vessel size and all risk vice named perils) hold salvage as an "in addition to" coverage that does not affect the agreed value.

GFC said:

That's one of the main differences between a "boat policy" and a "yacht policy". What you stated is more representative of a boat policy. The boat is insured for a defined amount and any salvage and environmental cleanup costs are deducted from that amount and the owner gets the remainder...if there is any.

On a yacht policy the boat is insured for a set amount. Any environmental or salvage costs are handled separately from the value of the boat.

If you boat owners don't know which way your policy would handle salvage or environmental costs, it might be worth a call to your agent.

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Correct, correct, and correct.

psneeld said:

depends on your policy but both BoatUS and Sea Insure (Sea Tow) have printed warnings about it in the past. Likely because of the middleman position they get into when performing salvage and the owner gets told by his agent about the fine print.

yacht policy, boat policy, gimmick policy...whatever...just make sure you know what yours says in case.....

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No gimmicks in policy language- it's pretty clear, The problem is that people try to go with either:

1. The lowest cost policy regardless of coverage.
2. Their home and auto agent who doesn't know anything about marine policies.

GFC is absolutely correct- the yacht policy is an agreed value that, for a total loss, is paid in full to the client without depreciation or deductible applied. Environmental and salvage coverages are not deducted from the hull coverage, but are paid in addition (as separate sublimits) to the payment made to the insured for the total loss of the vessel.

The limits for salvage charges are generally equal to the agreed value of the vessel.

OK...so knowing what your policy reads and as you say..."The limits for salvage charges are generally equal to the agreed value of the vessel. " is pretty important...gimmick policies aside of course....

I would take that as...know WTF your policy covers and not....maybe you are a great insurance agent...but believe me not all are...especially like you said...shopping for cheap insurance can eave you with your mouth gaping open...when the salvor hits you with the bill and your insurance agent in Jamaica say there's nothing he can do....

Wow, Thank for the update. Great pictures too. Which harbor is this boat at? Heartbreaking to see such a nice boat end its life that way.
Also , thanks for the insurance advice.

Paul, are there policies that cover salvage, oil cleanup , etc?

bligh said:

Wow, Thank for the update. Great pictures too. Which harbor is this boat at? Heartbreaking to see such a nice boat end its life that way.
Also , thanks for the insurance advice.

Paul, are there policies that cover salvage, oil cleanup , etc?

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Sure...most of the better yacht policies these days do...I'm just saying make sure as the people who just add a "boat" or "yacht" policy with the average insurance agent really needs to take a good look and compare with some of the policies from some of the better marine insurance companies....

Sorry my first name is Paul but his info was correct and so is mine....I'm sure he can be more specific in language and where to look/compare...

Paul, thanks for a professional interpretation of what I put above. Most of us are not insurance experts and most of us have a hard time reading insurance policies. (Some times I think the insurance companies write them this way so we don't know what's in them.)

That's why it is SO important that you trust your marine insurance agent to act on our behalf and not "sell" you a policy just because you tell him you don't want to spend much on boat insurance. The difference between a cheap boat policy and a more expensive yacht policy is just a few hundred bucks a year, but could cost you tens of thousands if you don't buy the right coverage.

bligh, the boat is moored at the Port of Kennewick marina on Clover Island in Kennewick, WA. If you want to look it up on Google Earth, it's at 46*12'57"N, 119*06'36"W. My dock is the one furthest to the east. If you zoom in close you can see the boat that sank on the west side of that dock out near the end. By boat is directly across that covered N-S dock.

psneeld said:

Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.

I have waited often on salvaging boats because the owner and salvage company have gone round and round over this issue.

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That's a good warning to everyone. Make sure your policy does include any salvage or environmental costs.

GFC said:

Paul, thanks for a professional interpretation of what I put above. Most of us are not insurance experts and most of us have a hard time reading insurance policies. (Some times I think the insurance companies write them this way so we don't know what's in them.)

That's why it is SO important that you trust your marine insurance agent to act on our behalf and not "sell" you a policy just because you tell him you don't want to spend much on boat insurance. The difference between a cheap boat policy and a more expensive yacht policy is just a few hundred bucks a year, but could cost you tens of thousands if you don't buy the right coverage.

bligh, the boat is moored at the Port of Kennewick marina on Clover Island in Kennewick, WA. If you want to look it up on Google Earth, it's at 46*12'57"N, 119*06'36"W. My dock is the one furthest to the east. If you zoom in close you can see the boat that sank on the west side of that dock out near the end. By boat is directly across that covered N-S dock.

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Yes, definitely have someone whose full time occupation is marine insurance. Also, depending on your own experience, it may be worth the cost to have a maritime lawyer review your policy and coverage.

Or trust your agent. I trust mine. The La Connor fire today makes me thankful that we have a yacht policy.

bligh said:

Wow, Thank for the update. Great pictures too. Which harbor is this boat at? Heartbreaking to see such a nice boat end its life that way.
Also , thanks for the insurance advice.

Paul, are there policies that cover salvage, oil cleanup , etc?

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Yessir, there are; a "Yacht Form" policy will have these coverages. Bear in mind that "yacht" has nothing to do with the size of the vessel, but rather defines the scope of the coverage the policy offers. A Yacht Form usually includes as standard coverages: Agreed Value settlement, All Risk, combined single limit liability, pollution coverage, salvage, permissive use, US L&H, and more.

One can have a "yacht" policy on a 19' Sea Ray, a 11' Whaler' or a Nordhavn 62- each vessel will have the exact same basic coverages relative to the vessel value. What you don't want is a "Boat Form" policy on your vessel (Actual Cash Value settlement, split limit liability, limited or no pollution coverage, limited or no salvage coverage, named operator coverage).

GFC said:

Paul, thanks for a professional interpretation of what I put above. Most of us are not insurance experts and most of us have a hard time reading insurance policies. (Some times I think the insurance companies write them this way so we don't know what's in them.)

That's why it is SO important that you trust your marine insurance agent to act on our behalf and not "sell" you a policy just because you tell him you don't want to spend much on boat insurance. The difference between a cheap boat policy and a more expensive yacht policy is just a few hundred bucks a year, but could cost you tens of thousands if you don't buy the right coverage.

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Mike, this simple truth could save so much heartache. We spend a great deal of money for our boats, and it's sad to talk to an owner who swears his Progressive/GEICO/AAA/USAA/Allstate/Farmers/AmFam/________ (insert company here) policy is the best- AND it's cheaper. Usually this owner has no clue what his policy covers, and is too hard headed to converse about how his policy may be inadequate relative to the risk.

Save a couple of dollars to lose much in the event of a claim just doesn't make sense to me.

BandB said:

That's a good warning to everyone. Make sure your policy does include any salvage or environmental costs.

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Indeed.

Well look at what I found on CL!

50 ft grand banks yacht salvage

I heard a joke from another surveyor a long time ago about sunk boats. You could tell by the sound of the whining coming from the dock whether an owner had insurance or not. The guys with boats who had insurance were whining about their engines. Whining from the engines running was the sound heard coming from boats that were uninusured...

We used to say the whining you heard after the airplane was shut down came from the pilots.

Never hard that one...

We were too busy at the O-club drinking beer and spending money on the ladies while the wrenchturners sweated into the night...

I'm going to say this too.

READ YOUR POLICY

I don't care how much you trust your agent or your attorney or anyone else. You need to be aware of all the clauses, inclusions, exclusions, and your responsibilities. If there is then something that's not clear to you discuss with the agent. And I mean this for all your policies. I will say that if you haven't previously read one there will in all likelihood be at least one thing that surprises you or that you didn't know and that will make the effort worthwhile.

This isn't mistrusting because legitimate policies may vary and still be fine. You just need to understand it. For instance, do you know how they are going to determine the value? Is it stated value? Fair market value? Lesser of stated or market? And if market is involved, how do they determine it? If you don't agree what rights do you have and what do you have to do? My boat/yacht policy didn't really surprise me in reading but homeowners' policies in South Florida did, especially the differences from one insurer to another.