anchor chain on drum anchor winch

I think that modern chain gypsies can handle rope too - ask around your marina if the vendors don't know.

On our previous boat (32') we had a Maxwell HRC 10 that handled the chain and rode seamlessly.

Horizontal Rope and Chain Range

Chain will eat any chrome off the drum, no big deakl.

The 20H Danforth weighs very little extra and probably is 2X-3X the anchor as the 15.

My windless is a Maxwell Hrc 10-8 with chain/rope gypsy and separate drum.

Love it.

My Willard came w a 13lb Danforth and I've always had good luck w it but felt it was only good for mellow conditions. Stayed put in a small anchorage one night w 35 knot winds but felt it may not hold much more.

Got several other anchors and finally a small capstan. I use about 12' of chain. 1st 3' of chain is 3/8" and the rest 5/16th". My newer (and older) anchors are mostly 18 to 22lbs.

Never use the capstan drum w chain. Just hand pull the metal part of the rode when the line is all up. The 18/22lb anchors are easy to pull w the chain. The 35lb not so easy but could be done all the time.

Al we could probably easily pull the rode if we had 15' of 1/4" HT chain, 1/2" nylon line and an extremely high holding power Fortress anchor. An 18lb Fortress would probably have as much holding power as several of our small steel Danforths. Also a 15lb Fortress would be much bigger than your 15lb Danforth and you could keep a Kellet handy for heavy weather. I made a 12lb Kellet from lead found at the end of a fishing buoy/mast/flag.

The rest of my rode is 5/8" nylon Brait and when anchoring in deep Alaskan waters it reduces the physical work of pulling the rode tremendously.

If I had 50 to 100' of chain I'd want to have a drum and gypsy winch and transfer the rode from the drum to the gypsy when the chain comes up. One or both (gypsy/drum) would not be aligned w the bow roller but an idler could be employed for alignment.
How many of you do that instead of splicing the chain to the line? There would come a point where the weight of the rode would make it impractical to transfer the rode to the gypsy.

With a large yacht in the 60s how did they do it?

most of the newer chain gypsies also accept rope rode (although I would personally never want rope) so I don't see what the big fuss is?
HOLLYWOOD

Like Hollywood said, and like I said in the second post, gypsies will handle rope as well as chain. There is no need to switch sides to the other side of the windlass, just pull it in. If you insist on using different sized chain in your rode, you have a problem.

I don't insist and I don't have a problem. My system gives me the option of concentrating the weight where it will do the most good. There are usually advantages to most things.

Notice all these fishermen also have that option .. to put more weight in the chain part of the rode closest to the anchor. And under the chain on the drum most have more nylon line than chain. Because they have the option they use shackles to connect all the different parts.

By drum anchor winch do you mean similar to the setups posted by Eric [Manyboats}.?

As shown they will handle combinations quite well. You just have to be aware of the drum limits and maybe guide the rope/chain a bit so it covers the drum evenly. Guide STICK, not hands.

The really big ones often had a guide that ran back and forth across the drum face to evenly load the drum.

I do not have one but wish I did. Not enough deck space without MAJOR alterations.

I've seen one lovely looking vessel, work boat look but not, some years ago that had one of these drums but they built a compartment to hide it mostly. The boat ws far larger than mine and of course lots of things can be done when done from new.

These things are almost always used on commercial vessels where practicality/relaibility supercedes appearance. However a few do appear on pleasure boats.

C lectric said:

By drum anchor winch do you mean similar to the setups posted by Eric [Manyboats}.?

As shown they will handle combinations quite well. You just have to be aware of the drum limits and maybe guide the rope/chain a bit so it covers the drum evenly. Guide STICK, not hands.

The really big ones often had a guide that ran back and forth across the drum face to evenly load the drum.

I do not have one but wish I did. Not enough deck space without MAJOR alterations.

I've seen one lovely looking vessel, work boat look but not, some years ago that had one of these drums but they built a compartment to hide it mostly. The boat ws far larger than mine and of course lots of things can be done when done from new.

These things are almost always used on commercial vessels where practicality/relaibility supercedes appearance. However a few do appear on pleasure boats.

Click to expand...

And there may be more reasons.....such as fishermen often don't buy things that are made for "yachts"...not because they don't work just as well...it's often just plain old dollars...

And not ALL fishermen or all commercial boats employ rope/chain drums either...there are lots of reasons for different anchors, rode combinations, and anchoring techniques....none right...none wrong and depending none better...none worse...(depending on again many reasons).

Today's tech has windlasses that will accommodate a combo rode without manual intervention...unfortunately, sometimes wear on the nylon often incapacitates them faster than you wish

C lectric,
I assume you're talking about Al's 1st post and no I think he was talking about the typical winch or windlass on a trawler w the gypsy on the stbd side and the small drum to port. And in my post #6 I was referring to the same type of winch.

I posted the pics to show how the fishermen were using super large chain, then large chain and then (usually) nylon line. I was showing that the fishermen concentrated the weight of their rode close to the anchor where it would do the most good. Not up in their chain locker or only 10' down in the water.

C lectric,
How big is your boat? What type or brand?

It's a 32' Palmer built locally. Mine was built as a pleasure boat and one of the last boats the yard produced before they closed their doors. Mostly they built trollers and gillnetters and of course some hulls out to people who then did their own thing.

I guess I need to read more carefully but the commercial drum winches popped into my head and that's what I read from there on.

Eric, I was addressing a single drum, no gypsy winch. Still, having a drum winch to pull the line up to the chain and then hand pulling the chain would be an improvement over the current hand over hand throughout.

As the "Tenacious" (18,000#) has a 13# Danforth and one came with the "Slo~Belle" (11,000#), I have been comfortable on using the Danforth. with both systems the same Danforth anchor seems not a issue with the lighter boat .
When the decision and installation is complete, I will switch out the Danforth for the equal weighted valued "plow" anchor that also came with the boat, for comparison.
Additional views are looked forward to and thanks for the input to this point.
Al.

Oh I seeee. C electric's boat. That is indeed a proper PNW boat and otherwise too. Yes I've seen others too but none this nice and tastefully trimmed boat. I even like the FB! Sure glad I asked for a picture!

I like the vented keel too. I'll bet she dosn't fall off on her bow and perhaps even faces a bit into the wind. I had an OB boat that would put her bow to the wind so it was so pleasant to stop and take a break in the aft cockpit. Most boats fall off on the bow and wonder what the NA had in mind here.

I have this winch for $400. Chain drive reduction drive. Very powerful. Would be operational if the hydraulic motor works.

Thank you. It keeps me out of mischief or in it maybe.

I thought of one of those winches a few years ago when I was having trouble with my electric windlass but I would literally have to butcher my foredeck to mount it and I finally elected to repair what I have. Oddly, the windlass works better now than it ever did.

Al, get yourself one of the modern winches that you can just sit up on the bridge, push a button and watch the line and chain come in. You don't have to handle anything. I like the Lewmar ones because I've had one for about twenty years and it still works. Here is a picture of one of the new Lewmars.




I think the type that Eric has pictured and is common in the PNW is called a captive reel windlass. Lewmar is showing a very nice little one for small boats at the Miami boat show. They are having such a good response to it that they're thinking of making a bigger one.

The advantage of the captive reel type is that it frees up space below that would be taken by the rope locker.
Captive Reel Windlasses products

The advantage of the captive reel type is that it frees up space below that would be taken by the rope locker. [URL="http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=9268&type=168&channel=1" said:

Captive Reel Windlasses products[/URL]

Click to expand...

the real advantage is that a lot of fishermen here run wire cable on the drum with a length of chain between the cable and anchor... it allows for a LOT of rode as some of the anchorages in Alaska/Canada are deep. And the set up is simple. Most run hydraulic motors to drive them and they are pretty fast

HOLLYWOOD

Anchor Winches - Aluminum - Drum Style - Winches

The only hassle with a cable drum , fitted with chain is the windlass power goes down as the chain is wound on.

The drum diameter gets bigger , lowers torque, but with a Hyd drive its problably not a hassle.

Might be a problem with far weaker electric drive?

FF said:

The only hassle with a cable drum , fitted with chain is the windlass power goes down as the chain is wound on.

The drum diameter gets bigger , lowers torque, but with a Hyd drive its problably not a hassle.

Might be a problem with far weaker electric drive?

Click to expand...

yes
yes
and yes. If I ever do a new build boat for my self it will have a deck mounted reel winch with galvanized cable and about 100' of chain... I think the only trick is a snubber arrangement to lessen shock loading... or I guess nylon line.
HOLLYWOOD

The amount of rode stored on a reel winch is not one of their positive features unless one uses cable and in my years in Alaska I haven't seen a boat w cable. Heard of one though.

They are powerful. Especially the ones w reduction drive. To my knowledge I've not seen a reel winch w an electric motor but I know they exist.

One of the biggest advantages of the reel winch (RW) is that the rode is stored on deck. On my trip to Alaska w my last boat the cabin had a bit of a foul smell from the constantly wet anchor rode just ahead of our berths. So on Willy I opted to put the rode in a box on deck. With a RW the rode is also on deck.

Speed seems to be a priority w the fishermen. One that I know said to me " Eric I don't have time to do all that stuff you guys do just to pull anchor." His priority is to have his gear in the water as long and often as possible. He's fish'in .. Not cruis'in. That's one of the main reasons they use such big anchors. I don't think most fishermen in SE set their anchor. They just dump the rode down on the bottom and a bit more. Their chain comes off the bow and goes straight down. And in the morning their bow is in the same place and the chain is still straight down. Unless there's mor than a bit of wind. So speed is a big issue w them.

For me the ability to carry a rode made up of nylon line and several (at least 2) different sizes of chain maximizes the benefit of weight in the rode (especially next to the anchor) so I get maximum benefit from the weight in the rode and a minimum rode weight for a given performance. As I see it the ideal rode can only be handled by hand or a reel winch.

Some con's are expense and space used on deck. Also for a pleasure boat usually there is not a hydraulic pump on the boat so either one must instal same or run the RW w an electric motor. Minimum cost for the RW is about $3000. The reduction chain drive winch in my pic would probably cost 4 or 5K. That excludes the pump and associated infrastructure below decks.

The advantages to the fishermen is such that you rarely see a fish boat in SE w/o a RW.

The advantages to the yachtsman should be obvious and the con is mostly that the RW is not considered a work of art to anybody but the fishermen. And the fishermen think real fishermen have reel winches.
Being all aluminum they can be painted, anodized or polished.but the hoses and fittings are hard to keep presentable at the yacht club.

Thanks Hopcar, I have taken this model into consideration. The line/chain locker remains in play with any form of stowage. In our case, the access is off to the side as the current method is hand over hand and the line/chain is led into that opening. The mounting for this Lewmar is through a built in feed. Our current anchor is on a mounted above deck level board holding the secured anchor and roller. Lots of change to accommodate a Lewmar. Make no mistake, the Lewmar is in the mix. On the other hand, the conversation so far is leading me towards a single horizontal drum where the transfer from the drum to hand when the chain appears. KISS
Edurance Marine 12V Capstan Winch

Line Speed: 200 lbs @ 31 fpm 50A draw, 600 lbs @17 fpm 85A draw. Length x Width x Height: 12.65 x 6.5 x 6.7 in. kit includes: Capstan Winch, Heavy duty 12V solenoid, Deck Switch with Stainless Steel cover plate, 40 amp circuit breaker.
Product Code: 846078000470

Price Product Code Stock Qty.

$599.99 846078000470

There is a old Chris Craft in the marina that has a winch type windlass on the bow, the boat has never moved in the 4 years I've been there. It appears to have SS cable & a short piece of chain & a danforth anchor, the winch is electric powered with planetary drive. I always thought it was something cobbled together to avoid the cost of a proper windlass.

Al that's exactly what I have.

It's very noisy. Scares me every time I step on the switch. Has lots of power though. I pulled up a huge limb once and couldn't tell the winch was stressed at all. Didn't know it was there till I saw it.It's fussy about the angle so it would be ideal to make the mounting so that it could be adjusted some. My line rides over to port and tries to climb up the side of the drum. I still get the job done but ... Pulling speed is about perfect for me. When your'e getting tired it's not too fast and it's never too slow for me.

Oh ... I paid $425.00

Consider the Power Winch as it has a saddle shaped drum that may work better. It's not very attractive though. It's gears are typical whereas the little guy has planetary gears. I'm looking into the possibility of both winches having the same output shaft dia and maybe putting the Powerwinch drum on the little guy (can't remember it's name.)

The price is probably right for that windlass, but you are making life difficult for yourself. Its a proven fact that anchors get heavier as they age...I'd buy a used one with a chain gypsy. Look for an Ideal, they have that drum on the other side so if you feel the urge you can still handraulic it. Besides, the (rude name -we need a PC name!) drum works great as a pot hauler. The Ideals are easy to service and repair and I think the motor is the starter off a 56 Chev.

1979 model...I have 2 sizes of chain and 250 ft rope rode. Works well but requires operation from the bow. I would much rather have an electric drum winch (with free fall), which the Aussies seem to have the jump on us on.

dimer2 said:

1979 model...I have 2 sizes of chain and 250 ft rope rode. Works well but requires operation from the bow. I would much rather have an electric drum winch (with free fall), which the Aussies seem to have the jump on us on.

Click to expand...

Muir make a drum winch, but the vast majority of recreational boats use an above deck or thru deck winch, with chain/rope capable gypsy.
Even if you can operate the winch remotely, its prudent to have a person beside the winch while it runs, with override controls.

BruceK said:

Muir make a drum winch, but the vast majority of recreational boats use an above deck or thru deck winch, with chain/rope capable gypsy.
Even if you can operate the winch remotely, its prudent to have a person beside the winch while it runs, with override controls.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I understand what the vast majority use but I like the drum concept. I have looked seriously at maXtek, Universal, Savwinch, Lone Star and Muir... Most cater to the weekend fishing boats of up to 30 ft. Muir being one of the exceptions. All are quoted ex Aus, making them fairly expensive in the US and then warranty, spares availability etc make it a PITA. Most of those winches listed above can be installed in the anchor locker, out of sight, making a second person unnecessary (or so they say). It is prudent for me to stand next to my current winch as its manual feed. Just seems, a US distributor, with stock, would be mutually beneficial. They are good looking winches.

dimer2, Muir have a reputation for quality and longevity. They source components for their winches worldwide, the gearbox in mine is from Italy. I checked their local website and came up with these agency details. Whether current, I can`t say.
UNITED STATES

*** For recreational windlasses and parts please contact IMTRA ***
*** For Super Yacht inquiries please contact MUIR USA OFFICE ***

MUIR USA Office
5691 SW 8th Street, Plantation
Florida 33317, UNITED STATES
International Tel +1 954 684 0629 International Fax +1 954 797 9761 Contact: Kim Mayer Email: muirusa@muir.com.au Web: www.muir.com.au Skype: kim.mayer12
Imtra Corporation (Head Office)
30 Barnet Boulevard, New Bedford, MA 02745, UNITED STATES
International Tel +1 508 995 7000 International Fax +1 508 998 5359 Contact: Jim Thomas Email: muir@imtra.com Web: www.muir.com.au