MarinAire 9,000

LaBomba · Feb 16, 2014

We currently have no heat or air in our boat and the odd summer day here makes sleeping very uncomfortable and we currently use portable electric heaters spring and fall to "warm" up the place. Looking on line these MarinAire units seem small and light, discharge head rotates, low energy draw, new eco friendly refrigerant and fairly inexpensive (for marine). This should fit nicely under the v berth. I'm sure since these appear to be sold and perhaps made in Florida that there has to be someone on her that has one. Any thoughts?? Are they any good?

http://www.marinaire.com/Marine-air-conditioner-9000-btu-110V-p/msba9k2.htm

Rogerh · Feb 16, 2014

We don't have one but it sure looks like a good solution. We have one Cruiseair unit that is going out and this would be a clean replacement. Hopefully someone has these in operation that can give us some feedback.

psneeld · Feb 16, 2014

I looking at the Wabasto...company has a good rep...some positive reviews although have never seen one in real life...

On sale now $1195 9000BTU reverse cycle (less shipping).

Webasto FCF Air Conditioning Unit - Cool with Reverse Cycle Heat

twistedtree · Feb 16, 2014

Anytime a company shows up using a name that is strikingly similar to a well established brand, I'm immediately suspicious. MarineAir is a long established brand that is now part of Dometic. MarinAire appeared a few years ago, apparently taking the almost-the-same name after Dometic bought MarineAir.

CaptTom · Feb 17, 2014

I'm thinking you'll find 9000BTU too small for your needs, both heating and cooling.

One 16000BTU unit will struggle to cool your whole boat on the hottest days, but if you're only heating or cooling one area it should be fine.

Prices for these things are all over the place. Look for a sale price like this.

FF · Feb 17, 2014

Be sure to look at the Mfg specs and find the LRC , the locked rotor current , that the dock , generator and wiring will need to provide for a very small time.

Easiest way to no have problems is heavier wiring. #10 as a bare minimum.

LaBomba · Feb 17, 2014

CaptTom said:
I'm thinking you'll find 9000BTU too small for your needs, both heating and cooling.

One 16000BTU unit will struggle to cool your whole boat on the hottest days, but if you're only heating or cooling one area it should be fine.

Prices for these things are all over the place. Look for a sale price like this.

Thanks CaptTom but we are just trying to cool the forward berth for sleeping comfort. Never usually too hot during the day in Canada that we can't tough it and usually outside anyway or in the water. The other thing is that we do not have an onboard noisemaker so with this small unit we can run it off our portable generator.

psneeld · Feb 17, 2014

twistedtree said:
Anytime a company shows up using a name that is strikingly similar to a well established brand, I'm immediately suspicious. MarineAir is a long established brand that is now part of Dometic. MarinAire appeared a few years ago, apparently taking the almost-the-same name after Dometic bought MarineAir.

If you are thinking Webasto Air Conditioners stole the name from Webasto Heating....well let's just say they ARE the same and the company is HUGE...

Webasto: Marine comfort solutions

psneeld · Feb 17, 2014

CaptTom said:
I'm thinking you'll find 9000BTU too small for your needs, both heating and cooling.

One 16000BTU unit will struggle to cool your whole boat on the hottest days, but if you're only heating or cooling one area it should be fine.

Prices for these things are all over the place. Look for a sale price like this.

And it you were thinking of me...

I plan on 2 -5000BTU and 1-16,000BTU or 1-5000, 1-9000, and 1-16,000 BTU for my vessel.

twistedtree · Feb 17, 2014

psneeld said:
If you are thinking Webasto Air Conditioners stole the name from Webasto Heating....well let's just say they ARE the same and the company is HUGE...

Webasto:*Marine comfort solutions

No, not Webasto, MarinAire - the company the OP asked about.

MarinAire is not the same this as MarineAir. MarineAir has been around for a very long time and is now part of Dometic. MarinAire just appeared a couple of years ago right around when the real MarineAir became part of Dometic.

psneeld · Feb 17, 2014

twistedtree said:
No, not Webasto, MarinAire - the company the OP asked about.

MarinAire is not the same this as MarineAir. MarineAir has been around for a very long time and is now part of Dometic. MarinAire just appeared a couple of years ago right around when the real MarineAir became part of Dometic.

Thanks, thought you would probably know...didn't the real MarineAir put Marineairrrrree or something goofy on some of their labels at some point????

mbevins · Feb 17, 2014

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler

rwidman · Feb 17, 2014

CaptTom said:
I'm thinking you'll find 9000BTU too small for your needs, both heating and cooling.

One 16000BTU unit will struggle to cool your whole boat on the hottest days, but if you're only heating or cooling one area it should be fine.

I agree. My 16000 BTU unit freezes up in very hot weather. It can't keep up with the heat loss.

I suggest calling in a pro to determine what size suits your boat. Call a couple and get quotes.

psneeld · Feb 17, 2014

http://www.flagshipmarine.com/sizeboat.html

Properly sizing your boat is a critical part of planning a successful air conditioning system that you will enjoy for many years.

The thermal gain of your boat varies greatly during every 24 hour period, and peaks when the sun is at its maximum strength. You must at least equal this maximum BTU gain, otherwise the temperature inside your boat will go up rather than down when you close it up and turn on the a/c at noon.
If you undersize your load you will be very uncomfortable and unhappy with your system when you need it the most!
Significantly oversizing the system will result in system "short cycling" - not giving the system adequate run time to satisfactorily dehumidify the vessel.
The general rule of thumb for sizing a pleasure boat is using the formula of 14BTU's/cubic foot (480 BTUs/cubic meter) of air conditioned space.
This factor is for typically constructed pleasure boats and should be adjusted if non-standard construction techniques have been employed.
It is prudent to use a factor of 16 to 19 BTU's/cubic foot (550-650 BTUs/ cubic meter) for areas that are used during the heat of the day that have a lot of sunlight coming in - for example a pilothouse, especially if the roof is not shaded or well insulated.
For areas below deck that are primarily used after sunset such as a stateroom, you can usually drop this factor to 10 - 12 BTU's/cubic foot(380-410 BTUs/ cubic meter).
If you plan to air condition the vessel only in the evening hours, or if your boat is under a canopy and out of the sun, you can typically use a factor of 10-12 BTUs for the entire vessel.
In many installations we have designed systems that will cool the main salon during the day and the entire boat, including the staterooms, in the evening by using multiple ducting with closeable grills combined with a more powerful blower motor. This frequently results in a single system accomplishing what you would typically need two systems for, saving you a lot of money and frequently eliminating the need for an additional shore power service. (You need about 10 BTUs/cubic foot after sunset, therefore if you concentrate the entire capacity of a single unit to the main salon only, during the day, you will end up with, for example, 18 BTUs/cubic foot in this smaller area during daylight hours, and 10 BTUs/cubic foot during the evening when you open up all of the ducts and cool the entire boat).
Exceptions: Catamarans and boats with large "greenhouse" like glass that allows lots of direct sunlight into the boat: Unless you can shade these areas so they are not in the direct sunlight, add about 600 BTUs of a/c capacity for every square foot of this glass (not the vertical panes as well). Tinting the glass helps a lot, however a simple tarp a few feet above the glass is the best solution while not eliminating your view. The darker the fabric the better for dark colors also block most of the UV radiation unlike a white fabric. Keep in mind that tinted glass is not permitted in the navigation station because it almost eliminates your nighttime visibility.
In applications where there is an unusually high heat load from many passengers such as a party boat, you should also increase your factor accordingly. The general rule of thumb is 250 BTU's for inactive occupants and 500 BTU's for active occupants such as working or dancing.
Please note that these formulas are for maintaining the desired temperatures of a typical vessel. Don't arrive at your boat at noon after it's been baking in the hot sun for hours with an inside temperature of 120°F, and expect it to be at 72°F in a half hour! You usually have thousands of pounds of furniture, fiberglass and steel that needs to be dropped 50° before the a/c has to only maintain this temperature. Just as in a house that has been closed for vacation, it may take several hours for the a/c system to catch up. This "Thermal Load" or "Thermal Mass" is most easily overcome during the evening hours when the thermal gain from the sun is nonexistent. We suggest you program the system to go on a 3AM, for example, in these situations - especially with commercial boats, unless you want to grossly oversize the system to accomplish your needs.
Using these factors combined with some common sense will almost always produce a satisfactory system, however you can always hire a professional to prepare a thermodynamic heat load analysis for your particular vessel.

How To Properly Size Your Boat - for marine air conditioning

HiDHo · Feb 17, 2014

WesK if your unit is freezing up check for insufficent air flow----dirty filter--discharge air ducting restricting flow, dirty evaporator coil, etc.

rwidman · Feb 17, 2014

HiDHo said:
WesK if your unit is freezing up check for insufficent air flow----dirty filter--discharge air ducting restricting flow, dirty evaporator coil, etc.

Thanks. I've been through all that. I have a lot of windows and the sun beats in at the slip. Keeping the curtains on that side helps a bit. The windows are tinted but I'm looking into some sort of low e tint.

BelleAurore · Mar 2, 2014

This is very helpful. I'm also interested in any experience with Cruise Aire

FF · Mar 3, 2014

Keeping the curtains on that side helps a bit.

Sun covers snapped on the OUTSIDE will help the most.

O C Diver · Mar 3, 2014

WesK said:
I agree. My 16000 BTU unit freezes up in very hot weather. It can't keep up with the heat loss.

I suggest calling in a pro to determine what size suits your boat. Call a couple and get quotes.

Units freeze up from insufficient air flow. Know somebody else already responded to your post, but if your intake filter is clean and it still freezes in continuous duty cycle, you don't have enough air flow.

Not so simple test to prove it:
Remove the unit from the boat. Plumb the raw water connection to a garden hose connect to a water faucet. On a warm day run the unit with no ducting connected to it. The evaporator coils won't reach a low enough temperature to allow the condensate to freeze on them. Only difference between this and your boat installation is the duct work. All duct work reduces air flow, which allows the evaporator coil to get colder, which may allow the condensate to freeze. Once condensate starts freezing, air flow is further reduced, the coil gets colder, more condensate freezes, until the unit freezes completely up.

On my charter boat I have a 16,000 btu unit that I ducted with a sweep 90 of 6" flexible aluminum duct (18" long) to a distribution box with six 4" vents. My unit kept freezing up in August when it would run continuosly on 90 degree days. Talked to the AC manufactuer and he convinced me to go to 8" duct, duct flanges, and bore out the flange hole in the distribution box. Problem solved! Unit cools the cabin down more quickly also. I was feeding 75 square inches of vents with 28 square inches in 6" duct hose. Problem was solved by going to 50 square inches in 8" duct hose.

My problem was relatively easy to solve; your ducting may be tougher to improve; it really truly is all about enough air flow over the evaporator coil.

Ted

rwidman · Mar 3, 2014

O C Diver said:
Units freeze up from insufficient air flow. Know somebody else already responded to your post, but if your intake filter is clean and it still freezes in continuous duty cycle, you don't have enough air flow.

Not so simple test to prove it:
Remove the unit from the boat. Plumb the raw water connection to a garden hose connect to a water faucet. On a warm day run the unit with no ducting connected to it. The evaporator coils won't reach a low enough temperature to allow the condensate to freeze on them. Only difference between this and your boat installation is the duct work. All duct work reduces air flow, which allows the evaporator coil to get colder, which may allow the condensate to freeze. Once condensate starts freezing, air flow is further reduced, the coil gets colder, more condensate freezes, until the unit freezes completely up.

On my charter boat I have a 16,000 btu unit that I ducted with a sweep 90 of 6" flexible aluminum duct (18" long) to a distribution box with six 4" vents. My unit kept freezing up in August when it would run continuosly on 90 degree days. Talked to the AC manufactuer and he convinced me to go to 8" duct, duct flanges, and bore out the flange hole in the distribution box. Problem solved! Unit cools the cabin down more quickly also. I was feeding 75 square inches of vents with 28 square inches in 6" duct hose. Problem was solved by going to 50 square inches in 8" duct hose.

My problem was relatively easy to solve; your ducting may be tougher to improve; it really truly is all about enough air flow over the evaporator coil.

Ted

Thanks. I don't think I can increase the duct size and I did make one outlet a few square inches larger but I'll take a look at it.

I really think it's just too much glass and not enough BTU though. The unit is just a couple years old and was a replacement for a similar unit and was installed by a respected pro.

O C Diver · Mar 3, 2014

WesK said:
Thanks. I don't think I can increase the duct size and I did make one outlet a few square inches larger but I'll take a look at it.

I really think it's just too much glass and not enough BTU though. The unit is just a couple years old and was a replacement for a similar unit and was installed by a respected pro.

Maybe you could tee the ducting where it comes off the blower and add an other vent. My new boat has a tee on one unit and a double tee on an other unit coming off the blower.

Ted

rwidman · Mar 3, 2014

O C Diver said:
Maybe you could tee the ducting where it comes off the blower and add an other vent. My new boat has a tee on one unit and a double tee on an other unit coming off the blower.

Ted

I'll look but I don't think I can do that. I would either end up with an outlet right next to the intake or have to run a long duct and put another outlet next to an existing outlet.

O C Diver · Mar 3, 2014

WesK said:
I'll look but I don't think I can do that. I would either end up with an outlet right next to the intake or have to run a long duct and put another outlet next to an existing outlet.

Putting an outlet next to the inlet isn't a deal breaker. You may only need one more 4" outlet to solve your problem. The 4" ones rotate 360 degrees and have angled louvers to send the flow in a desired direction. Simply angle the flow away from the intake. Also, they have adjustable flow from wide open to nothing. You probably have 90% of the flow you need. It may only take a portion of a 4" vent to solve your problem.

4" vent

Ted

HiDHo · Mar 3, 2014

Thanks Ted, I was beginning to think that the three months I spent in the US Navy air conditioning and refrigeration school with regards to trouble shooting had been a waste.

WesK when you use the term "freeze's up" are you referring to the reciever and or condenser freezing up ? In which case the unit may have lost some of it charge of refrigerant which would effect it's cooling capacity. I would have someone put gauges on the unit and and see if it has lost it's charge and if so find the leak which can be a challenge on marine units. The fact that this unit was installed two years ago into a duct system that had no prior problems points to a problem with the new unit. Keep us posted and good luck.
Bill

rwidman · Mar 4, 2014

HiDHo said:
Thanks Ted, I was beginning to think that the three months I spent in the US Navy air conditioning and refrigeration school with regards to trouble shooting had been a waste.

WesK when you use the term "freeze's up" are you referring to the reciever and or condenser freezing up ? In which case the unit may have lost some of it charge of refrigerant which would effect it's cooling capacity. I would have someone put gauges on the unit and and see if it has lost it's charge and if so find the leak which can be a challenge on marine units. The fact that this unit was installed two years ago into a duct system that had no prior problems points to a problem with the new unit. Keep us posted and good luck.
Bill

The one it replaced had the same problem but eventually lost its charge and lost its recharge. According to the service guy, these units historically had a problem with internal leaks after many years of service. There was no external leak but the recharge was gone in less than a day.

The controller has a feature that puts the unit in the heat mode if the temperature does not drop (assuming that the thermostat is calling for a lower temperature) for one hour. I can set this for one, two or three minutes (relying on memory here) or disable this feature and as long as I have it turned on, the unit goes into heat mode and thaws itself.

I'll look at adding outlets but I think my best solution is low e window film and keeping the curtains closed on the afternoon sun side.

The part that freezes is the coil that the incoming air passes through. The part with the fins. The correct name escapes me at the moment.

MarinAire 9,000

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