RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. W. See post #22.
Mr. W. See post #22.
Herd of Tugs?
- Thread starter O C Diver
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Moonstruck
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You could have a fleet of anything even bakery trucks, but it would be only a tow of tugs. That's like maybe a gaggle of geese----not a flock.
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Show me the regulation that says this.
The reg cited states that IF the boards are required for sector definition, they must be black. Not all boats require boards for sector definition and the regs do not prohibit their installation on boats not requiring them. On those boats not required to have boards by the Navrules, light board may or may not be installed and their color is not addressed by the Navrules.
psneeld
Guru
OK......whatever you think...
For others, if in doubt call a USCG MATRINE INSPECTOR...not just anyone.
PS....
I just got off he phone with Marine Inspection Office Houston, TX and the inspector said no matter WHAT vessel has light boards, if installed, should be painted matt black. It's the INTENT of the reduction of glare that's important...not just the LACK of the way it's stated in the CFRs and NAVRULES.
Now if you want nicely varnished light boards with your name on them...hey I like them and the glare isn't too much...but the Ranger tugs and their cheap plastic...HIGHLY STUPID red/green light bards still bug me....
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BruceK
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Agree. The geese should have a contrast background not affecting light/color emission.You could have a fleet of anything even bakery trucks, but it would be only a tow of tugs. That's like maybe a gaggle of geese----not a flock.
"A crust of bakery trucks"?
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Gaggle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mr. M. Agreed, could be a fleet of trucks but like herd (of cows, sheep or goats), fleet can describe several items. So far I've been unable to find a specific collective noun for tugs. A general term for ships (fleet, armada, flotilla) that's about as specific as it gets. Could be a tow of tugs...
Along the same lines as what a tug does to describe a group, other options might be...drag, draw, haul, strain, toil, yank or heave of tugs....
Gaggle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mr. M. Agreed, could be a fleet of trucks but like herd (of cows, sheep or goats), fleet can describe several items. So far I've been unable to find a specific collective noun for tugs. A general term for ships (fleet, armada, flotilla) that's about as specific as it gets. Could be a tow of tugs...
Along the same lines as what a tug does to describe a group, other options might be...drag, draw, haul, strain, toil, yank or heave of tugs....
psneeld
Guru
Steve
Guru
Seems it would be a fleet of tugs, that's what the tow boat companies here call them. The Ranger company seems to be one of the manufacturers of cruising boats that is doing well. I see quite a few of them along the Gulf Coast. I have been on one for drinks it was nice, although I did find the engine compartment very crowded.
Good luck to them!
Good luck to them!
.........................but the Ranger tugs and their cheap plastic...HIGHLY STUPID red/green light bards still bug me....
Why not contact them and ask them why they are producing illegally equipped boats?
They might thank you for pointing out their mistake before they get involved in a lawsuit.
Or they might not.............
Northern Spy
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Maybe they haven't got the 72 COLREGS yet. That is when the matte black screens were decided upon. If your boat was built before July '77, when 72 COLREGS went into effect, thry may even be grandfathered.
psneeld
Guru
Can't say for sure about grandfathering...but in the US the USCG's opinion on the matter is the flat black is there for a decidedly good reason and the way the COLREGS/NAVRULES are worded despite all the sea lawyering...is that the flat black eliminates reflected glare and therefore lessens the possibility of misinterpreting the light sector.
If you are an inspected vessel you will be required to change if/when the inspector notices (and probably will)...if not inspected...the only way someone may make a big deal about it is on a USCGAUX inspection if the inspector even knows the reg, a boarding and the barding officer is REALLY sharp AND aggressive or if you are involved in an incident.
Northern Spy
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Just checked, they are not exempted in Rule 38 so they should be black.
I had one of those inspections and the inspector started to get on me for not having an engine compartment blower. I had to point out to the inspector that a diesel powerd boat is not required to have a blower.
When they inspect my boat they just look to see if the lights work. They don't check the angle, brightness or location.
psneeld
Guru
Have at it...we have people on TF that don't believe it's illegal or even a problem...they think it's an "enhancement"....
So you think Ranger Tugs and their gimmicky, cutesy colored boards that make potential buyers go "oooh...ahhh" are gonna change when the USCG has already gone on record and said it's the operator's responsibility?
One of the main reasons I joined the USCG was because they used to have inspectors at some boat manufacturing facilities to prevent just this...I thought that if I didn't stay..that would have given me some good connections in the industry. They did away with the program back in the early 80's (I think).
psneeld
Guru
I had one of those inspections and the inspector started to get on me for not having an engine compartment blower. I had to point out to the inspector that a diesel powerd boat is not required to have a blower.
When they inspect my boat they just look to see if the lights work. They don't check the angle, brightness or location.
As I have posted before... I have tremendous respect for the concept and actions of a lot of the USCGAUX.
Others are just members of a good old boys uniformed yacht club that gets fuel money on the taxpayers dime (I think some of the worst offenders are the ones with airplanes and do "patrols").
Some can't help it and other's have no idea they are doing it...but many use their "opinion" as if it were law or fact and many don't have enough knowedge or experience to carry the weight of the instruction certificate or inspection sticker they issue.
psneeld
Guru
I guess you missed post #34 where I posted I just spoke to a USCG vessel inspector....
He said the intention of flat black (matt black) is to prevent reflected light outside of the approved light sector...as I've been saying all along.
Even if specifically not said in the rules...ruling bodies have extended the rules (as in most types of regulatory law) to include intent....so the "inspector" requirement to be flat black.
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With all due respect, you're telling us your opinion and that we should take your word for it, but you cite no written guidance in support of that position. Post #34 has no proof of anything...just you saying this is another anonymous guy's interpretation.
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe everything I read on the internet. You cite your USCG experience in nearly every other post, even when it has no bearing on the discussion. My working for the FAA for 30+ years as a flight inspector didn't make me an expert on every aviation regulation and an official source for legal interpretation of the regs. When legal readings were provided, they came from officials responsible for that job with a source and complete legal references. That's all I'm asking for here...not opinions like "highly stupid."
And let's remember that we're not talking about inspected vessels here. These are privately owned recreational boats in this discussion. As Sgt. Joe Friday used to say, "Just the facts, Ma'am."
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe everything I read on the internet. You cite your USCG experience in nearly every other post, even when it has no bearing on the discussion. My working for the FAA for 30+ years as a flight inspector didn't make me an expert on every aviation regulation and an official source for legal interpretation of the regs. When legal readings were provided, they came from officials responsible for that job with a source and complete legal references. That's all I'm asking for here...not opinions like "highly stupid."
And let's remember that we're not talking about inspected vessels here. These are privately owned recreational boats in this discussion. As Sgt. Joe Friday used to say, "Just the facts, Ma'am."
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psneeld
Guru
Post #34 said it all...
I suggested that if you don't believe me in post #34...call the CURRENT USCG guys who may not come out and inspect your boat day today...but bet your sweet you know what they will if there's ever an incident.
I called the USCG just to make sure MY experience was current.... and it was.
If I'm not sure about something..I'll usually make sure I say so or I'll take the time to look it up and post a link too.
As to aviation versus marine experience...hmmmm..let's see....Trawler Forum....
I cite my experience in the USCG for the benefit of new viewers as it might let them focus on a post who is at least trying to point them in the right direction and though I may not have all the amswers...good chance I have heard the topic discussed at a professional level.
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Nomad Willy
Guru
I don't know what he said in the previous post but it seems to me that's what psneeld has been presenting .... The basic facts .. The regulation.
What's interesting and perhaps relevant here is what the CG thinks is best ... Probably IS best.
What's interesting and perhaps relevant here is what the CG thinks is best ... Probably IS best.
I agree. What someone said on the phone is just that; what someone said on the phone. Like calling a cop and asking a legal question.
Want something solid? Get it in writing signed by a person high in the organization. Personally I've done this twice that I can recall and I've kept a copy of the signed letter with me in case there's any question.
psneeld
Guru
I find it curious.....
The NAVRULES specify a color for painting the inside surface of screens if they are necessary...not only that screens should be there to ensure the proper sector...but also not only the color...but the finish...
Why is that do you suppose????
I knew why before I called a USCG inspector....but did so to see if common sense prevailed...and it did...
Whether you have to paint them black or not is your call....but if you do paint them flat black ....you have a much better chance of being right than wrong because you are following the requirement just like the big boys....
The NAVRULES specify a color for painting the inside surface of screens if they are necessary...not only that screens should be there to ensure the proper sector...but also not only the color...but the finish...
Why is that do you suppose????
I knew why before I called a USCG inspector....but did so to see if common sense prevailed...and it did...
Whether you have to paint them black or not is your call....but if you do paint them flat black ....you have a much better chance of being right than wrong because you are following the requirement just like the big boys....
Nomad Willy
Guru
Barpilot,
With only 20 posts here I doubt if you know what a pissing contest really is on TF unless you've read for days in the archives and few read for over 5 minutes.
I think psneeld is very correct but I also think he's the only one that "seems" to care.
Actually we do a lot less "pissing" on this forum than on most (from what I hear) so I'm sure you're using some other forum as a standard.
Welcome to TF and I hope you enjoy the lack of piss.
With only 20 posts here I doubt if you know what a pissing contest really is on TF unless you've read for days in the archives and few read for over 5 minutes.
I think psneeld is very correct but I also think he's the only one that "seems" to care.
Actually we do a lot less "pissing" on this forum than on most (from what I hear) so I'm sure you're using some other forum as a standard.
Welcome to TF and I hope you enjoy the lack of piss.
Eric:
As it happens, I come from a long line of professional mariners (ship captains, barpilots, tug boat operators) and I'm pretty sure I can identify a pissing contest when I see one, maritime related or not. I was also unaware that credibility was based on the number of posts that were made on this forum.
On another note, we had a Willy 30 in our family for years. Loved that little boat.
As it happens, I come from a long line of professional mariners (ship captains, barpilots, tug boat operators) and I'm pretty sure I can identify a pissing contest when I see one, maritime related or not. I was also unaware that credibility was based on the number of posts that were made on this forum.
On another note, we had a Willy 30 in our family for years. Loved that little boat.
Moonstruck
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Absolutely my take on it. People had a life before they found TF.
Good to have you aboard. If you like Willards, Eric (Manyboats) will like you immediately.
Please join in and share your knowledge.
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RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Mr. B. "I was also unaware that credibility was based on the number of posts that were made on this forum."...Hah! You've obviously never read any of MY posts then.
Mr. B. "I was also unaware that credibility was based on the number of posts that were made on this forum."...Hah! You've obviously never read any of MY posts then.
Northern Spy
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Ranger Tugs?
psneeld
Guru
Care to throw in your "opinion" or point the thread in the right direction?
