Coolant - scam?

Xsbank said:

WesK, I buy oil in 20 litre pails. 5 US gallons.

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More importantly you missed "the Canadian Surcharge".

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler

Eric
Castrol and Mobile are both great oils.

Xsbank. I am the General manager of one of the nations largest truck and heavy equipment remanufacturing centers. I don't sell oil but I always tell my customers "if you don't want to see me on a regular basis, buy the best oil you can".

All I can do is make recommendations. We overhaul over 200 transmissions, differentials and hydraulic pumps every day. I see up close and personal what cheap oil does to mechanical parts.

Johnma
MS390

I have used EVANS cool for years it always brings down the temps better than any other coolant combo I have used in my race toy's very stable with that being said it is not readily available and is very pricey! Some times we spend just because we want the best not because we need the best! As far as Rotella that stuff is awesome 300K on my duramac's and still going with Rotella and use it on the dirt scooters as well!
My .02

I don't get why you think that coolant would be a scam. Yes, they consist mainly of EG or PG, but what you are paying for is the additive pack.

Typically the green stuff is a mixture of phospahates and silicates and form a protective layer on the metal components. When they are depleted, there is no more protection.

Extended Life antifreeze has OAT carboxylates which chemically interact (chelation, I think) with the exposed metal.

I don't have any wet liner diesels, so I don't know a heck of a lot about cavitaion erosion and the additives to prevent, but there is that aspect too.

You could check pH as glycol turns acidic, check glycol/water ratio with a refractometer, and check additive packs with test strips...or you could buy a good quality recommended coolant and change it every two years.

Sometimes in life, you actually do get what you pay for; or you can go to Walmart and take your chances.

Folks, Speaking of scams, how many on you are buying the 50% / 50% coolant premix and paying coolant prices for water? While I am aware that a 50/50 mix is one of the best ratios for freeze / coolant protection, I buy a good 100% coolant for just a little more than the premix and purchase a equal number of gallons of distilled water for less than a buck a gallon! A hell of a lot cheaper than the premix when all is said and done! George

>I buy a good 100% coolant for just a little more than the premix and purchase a equal number of gallons of distilled water for less than a buck a gallon!<

Good thinking IF your engine actually requires the low temperature protection of 50/50.

For most folks 35% antifreez will give the required corrosion protection , and actually does a better job of heat transfer , coolants basic purpose.

gts1544 said:

Folks, Speaking of scams, how many on you are buying the 50% / 50% coolant premix and paying coolant prices for water? While I am aware that a 50/50 mix is one of the best ratios for freeze / coolant protection, I buy a good 100% coolant for just a little more than the premix and purchase a equal number of gallons of distilled water for less than a buck a gallon! A hell of a lot cheaper than the premix when all is said and done! George

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Yes, 4 gallons of 100% Valvoline Heavy Duty ELC at $20 per and 4 gallons of distilled water at $1 per. Flush and replace after 5 years. No worries.

gts1544 said:

Folks, Speaking of scams, how many on you are buying the 50% / 50% coolant premix and paying coolant prices for water? While I am aware that a 50/50 mix is one of the best ratios for freeze / coolant protection, I buy a good 100% coolant for just a little more than the premix and purchase a equal number of gallons of distilled water for less than a buck a gallon! A hell of a lot cheaper than the premix when all is said and done! George

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I buy full strength and mix with distilled water as well. My engine manual recommends a 50/50 mix.

Pre-mix is convenient for people who need to top off their coolant from time to time and is probably marketed for auto and truck owners who may carry a jug in their vehicles.

Of course you can mix your own for topping off and that is what I generally do.

Delo® Extended Life Coolants (ELC)
Delo Extended Life Coolants (ELC) are recommended for virtually all diesel and natural gas engines and include patented technology that keeps cooling systems running cooler, cleaner, and with less downtime. Tested over millions of miles, in every major U.S. heavy-duty engine, Delo ELC can protect for 750,000 miles/8 years/12,000 hours. Also available as a Nitrite-free pre-diluted 50/50 coolant.

FF said:

>I buy a good 100% coolant for just a little more than the premix and purchase a equal number of gallons of distilled water for less than a buck a gallon!<

Good thinking IF your engine actually requires the low temperature protection of 50/50.

For most folks 35% antifreez will give the required corrosion protection , and actually does a better job of heat transfer , coolants basic purpose.

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Yes FF! I had a water cooled BMW motorcycle and the manual recommended a 40% mix for best performance and more IF you needed it for freeze protection. But 50-50 is easier to measure that 40-60.

Wesk wrote;
"Pre-mix is convenient for people who need to top off their coolant from time to time and is probably marketed for auto and truck owners who may carry a jug in their vehicles."
I do that. It's better than to think "did I add a dab of water last time or AF? But of course you premix your own.

Hey Capthead I'm unsung synthe tic oil now .... In my new car.

manyboats said:

Hey Capthead I'm unsung synthe tic oil now .... In my new car.

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Eric

Fess up, is this your 1976 Buick or ----------

manyboats said:

Hey Capthead I'm unsung synthe tic oil now .... In my new car.

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I'm impressed

I think someday most cars will call for it, if not all. That is of course, if the internal combustion engine survives.

Tom,
No old Buicks get 10W-30 in the winter and 20W-50 in the summer.

New car is a turbo but I think the others get spec'ed for synthetic oil too. I think they're doing it to get the highest "mpg" numbers on the window sticker and elsewhere. With the government requiring higher mileage .........

Capthead,
I kinda liked the Prius but you can't get one that's not a hybrid. No V8s either.

A thought just occurred to me. Would my 73 Buick do well on 5W-30 mobile 1 synthetic? Could use more gas mileage on that one!

Coolant disposal/recycle

Any suggestions for the disposal/recycle of used coolant?

glennwhiskey said:

Any suggestions for the disposal/recycle of used coolant?

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Check with your town...some allow you to pour it down the drain...

Some auto repair and marinas recycle it..but often just the glycol based ones.

Advanve auto in my area takes coolant and oil for recycle with no charge.

Recyling - ask at your local garage. They have to deal with it regularily.
My garage does nick me something for it as it costs him. The oil he takes for free.

What about your marina?

manyboats said:

I think the "long life" has very significant advantages if engine coolant comes in contact w aluminum parts of the engine. I use LL on on all my engines w alu parts but just use the old green stuff on my Mitsubishi that has no aluminum contact w the AF.....

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An old time very knowledgeable Mercedes car mechanic once told me the primary reason for changing the coolant (antifreeze) ever 2 years was preservation of the radiator, particularly alum ones. ....and maybe, but not as likely other alum engine parts the coolant might come in contact with.

One thing I don't understand is this relatively new idea of 'pre-mixed coolant'. It sounds to me like they are diluting the original product (with water I suppose) and selling me a diluted product?? ....so I have to buy twice as much to get the full benefit??
Can't I simply dilute my own 'full strength' product?

manyboats said:

Larry and Capthead,
Very excellent posts indeed. I'd forgotten about the PH in the coolant.

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I'll second that, .... very informative

One thing I don't understand is this relatively new idea of 'pre-mixed coolant'. It sounds to me like they are diluting the original product (with water I suppose) and selling me a diluted product?? ....so I have to buy twice as much to get the full benefit??
Can't I simply dilute my own 'full strength' product?[/QUOTE]

Brian, sure you can and as others have pointed out, around 65% solution will give the lowest freeze point. However, the specific heat capacity gets worse the greater by volume of coolant. Here is a good explanation in layman terms (even I could understand it) of how it all works.

Things you should know about coolant – hellafunctional

glennwhiskey said:

Any suggestions for the disposal/recycle of used coolant?

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The auto parts store I called would not take it but my county has several disposal sites and some of them will accept used coolant. So check with your city or county.

Walmart told me they would accept it over the phone but when I got there they weren't sure. After some complaining on my part they agreed to take it and dumped it in with the used oil. I don't think they were supposed to do that.

This reminds me, I still have five gallons in a jug, waiting for me to get rid of it.

In my town in Ct coolant can be dumped into the sink/sewer system. Private resdences not businesses.

Greeting: I rarely get angry or upset, but when dealing with anti-freeze products containing Ethylene glycol being dumped in to any drain which leads in to fresh or salt water, the person doing so should be "shot". A cup full will distroy the life in a ten to twenty acre pond. Please recycle do not discharge it into a CT drain. Enough said, Bill

Greetings,
Mr. C. I hear ya' loud and clear. Either municipalities don't know or care (they should) about what gets recycled. One of MY beefs is quite simple. Nobody around here will accept used flashlight type batteries. Into the trash then to land fill then into the environment/water table.
Now back to coolants/fluids....

Cyclone said:

Greeting: I rarely get angry or upset, but when dealing with anti-freeze products containing Ethylene glycol being dumped in to any drain which leads in to fresh or salt water, the person doing so should be "shot". A cup full will distroy the life in a ten to twenty acre pond. Please recycle do not discharge it into a CT drain. Enough said, Bill

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That must be a mighty shallow pond as the LC50 dose for fish is 17800mg/liter.

Northern Spy said:

That must be a mighty shallow pond as the LC50 dose for fish is 17800mg/liter.

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Sounds shaky for toxic amount though I would never just indiscriminately dump....plus the treatment plants supposedly take care of the the antifreeze toxicity...otherwise they wouldn't approve of it (either in just reduced concentrations or what they add before it's released).

Before getting all upset about a little antifreeze...there's plenty more to worry about in the environment.

I'll be sure to report the EG spill to the EPA when my airplane de-ices on my next flight.

What about the toxicity of Ethylene Glycol?

“The City has not performed analysis for Ethylene Glycol, per se, at the treatment plant inflow. However, ethylene glycol, while toxic at high concentration, is highly treatable at the concentrations received by a wastewater treatment plant. It is broken down by the biological processes just like all of the other organic compounds received for treatment. Of course, the discharge of “significant quantities” (hundreds of gallons) of relatively concentrated ethylene glycol could result in a toxic condition being created at our treatment plant. However, it’s highly unlikely that service shops will ever release such volumes.”

Safe, Legal and Affordable Disposal of Engine Cooling Flush Water

Hmmmm. Perhaps my sarcasm was not detected.

EG will poison your kitty and your kiddie when ingested due to its sweet taste. One cup will not likely poison the daphnia or trout when placed in a bucket, let a twenty acre pond.

Sorry Cyclone Bill. No offense, but hyperbole makes my otherwise inert passive aggressive nature kick in.

I'd rather you shot me for s character flaw than some poor sap spilling EG. (Please note my use of hyperbole in that last sentence.)

Cyclone said:

Greeting: I rarely get angry or upset, but when dealing with anti-freeze products containing Ethylene glycol being dumped in to any drain which leads in to fresh or salt water, the person doing so should be "shot". A cup full will distroy the life in a ten to twenty acre pond. Please recycle do not discharge it into a CT drain. Enough said, Bill

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I did not make the rules. I'm only the messenger. Enough said.