Our next boat, LRC Full Displacement.

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Daddyo said:
Those numbers are not accurate at all. The best you can hope for is about 3.5-4 MPG that works out to 2200+- miles. We burn 1.9 gph at 6.8 knots at 48' LOA 30 tons. Those are stunning numbers. In the end it's not about fuel burn with any of these choices. It's about all the little things that makes the boat talk to you. You will know when you found the right boat.
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Umm, when I calculated my numbers there are a few caveats I should explain.

1. Because I don't have a reliable program to give me actual distance traveled revert time, I will also use polar view to calculate the distance using the planner. This means that my actual distance will be higher then reported. So for the 700 nm, it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually 5% higher.

2. My calculated fuel burn also includes roughly an hour per day of going no where as I anchor, haul anchor, look at the sky, etc. On a passage, I would not have that waste.

3. With all that said, my 4 nm/gal is therefore pretty conservative.

4. If I reduce speed to 1400 rpm, that's about 5.5 kts and fuel burn will be about 1.1 gal/hr.
Let's see, 5.5 nm/hr divided by 1.1 gal/hr =
5.0 nm/gal times 700 gal = 3500 nm range.

So yes, those 39' numbers are possible.

Lastly, on the two engines versus one, I was/am willing to give up the security of a second engine to get the efficiency of one engine.

FOR ME, ,there was no point in getting a boat that I could not afford to put fuel in to go all the places we want to go. Even now, having to be in one place for a month drives me crazy. That's why I'm up at 2 a.m. posting to tf.

And that comment about the wet exhaust was a bit flippant.
Night all.
 
Not sure which comment about wet exhaust you found flippant.

Some twins are pretty darn close in fuel burn such as Daddyo's DeFever...but most aren't to get the numbers down to what you are doing (then again most people won't travel at 5.2 knots except in some unusual circumstances...thus why 18 knot Ranger tugs are selling pretty well).
 
I have not tried travelling at less than 7 knots in my trawler. At 7 I get about 3 mpg. I think I could get close to 4 at 6 knots, especially if I run on one engine.
 
I'd suggest not shopping for a brand but go on to yacht world and search according to preferenced features. In almost 3000 surveys I have come across three boats (two trawlers, one sailboat) that I could find nothing wrong with and built to perfection. All three were homebuilt steel boats.
 
The importance of fuel economy is dependant on how much you really plan to cruise, and your budget

My boat gets 1.75NMPG If I cruise for 100NM a week, which for me sounds reasonable, (one travel day per week) then that would be approx 57 gallons a week of diesel or 247 gallons a month. At $4.00 a gallon that would be a thousand dollar a month expense.

If you could double that economy to 3.5 NMPG then it would only be around $500 a month.

Some folks might want to travel more. At 200 miles a week, or two travel days of course the numbers double.

The more miles a month you plan to cruise, and the boat you choose, can make a big difference in the affordability of cruising as a retirement lifestyle.

Adding it up, I can see why some prefer to go smaller, and more efficient.
 
N4061 wrote;

"Another option may be a capable sailboat"

To look at a sailboat one would think it not terribly efficient w all that wetted surface when at slow speeds wetted surface is king. But they are definitely more efficient than trawlers .. even FD trawlers.

Re seaworthyness they may be miles ahead of most trawlers and ahead of even FD trawlers. But a sailboat or even a motorsailer dosn't fit Bill's wish list very well at all.

And single or twin has almost nothing to do w efficiency. As long as both boats compared have the same size engine or engines ... total. The trouble is here on TF most trawler twins have twice as much power and of course are less efficient. So you can say boats w more power are less efficient but single or twin (for all practical purposes) has nothing to do w efficiency.

I know of a W40 that could be had for well under Bill's $175K. No FB.
 
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Before you start deciding on what the boat should be? the best is to take your SO/Wife to boat/trawler shows and she what her likes and dislikes are, and also she gets the final final say on the boat. SO/wife look/see a boat from a different view point, layout, creature comforts, safety, storage and her feeling of being comfortable and safe. You might be surprised what she buys. I know my wife certainly surprised me! :flowers:
 
manyboats said:
Sounds to me like a W40 or KK42 is perfect for the job. To it's credit the KK has no FB but the W40 does. And as somebody pointed out Soto's W40 is availible but I don't know his price.
Click to expand...

Eric, I've not seen a KK 42 without a flybridge.
 
No sail boats, don't like the fact that most of the living/entertaining/cooking,etc room is at or under waterline. We are trawler folks through and through. In fact it was funny I just read an article about the expenses of owning a sail boat and found what I felt was a good comparison. Have you ever heard a sail boat owner talk about little fuel he/she spent that year? Now ask them, "When was the last time you rigged and replaced your sails?" Lets amortize that into economy. I would much rather enjoy the pleasures of a trawler than a sail boat.
Cheers,
Bryrick
 
Way more (range) than most comparable size boats, trawlers and FDs included.

Try riding in a boat built to plane in rougher conditions , the ride may disapoint you.

Stability up on the plane does not exist at 5K.
 
That may be true but I don't want a sail boat or planing for the next boat. Planing boats aren't very economical when compared to a FD.
 
Greetings,
Mr. b. A bit of thread drift but... Bertram 58 Flybridge MY $69K You'd
have SCADS of $$ "left over" to make changes and one hell-u-va delivery trip....
Bertram Yachts
 
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bshillam said:
Full displacement - economy is a must as well as long range. (We're West Coasters and want to be able to go through Panama and use her as a winter home in FL or the likes) 6 knots is plenty fast for us. We can always equip her with a fast tender.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you've fully considered the implications of that plan? The distance from Seattle WA to Miami FL via the Panama canal is 5,179 nautical miles each way or 10,358 nmi round trip. So, making the round trip once a year at 6 knots would require 1,726 hours underway, or 20% of the hours in a year. If you spend as many days in port between passages (waiting on weather etc.) as you spend underway, then you would spend 40% of the year or ~21 weeks in transit round trip. That leaves 30% of the year or 15.6 weeks in Washington and 15.6 weeks in Florida (or the Caribbean). In addition assuming your fuel burn per nautical mile is roughly the inverse of your average cost of fuel (i.e. $4/gallon * 0.25 gallons/nmi = $1/nmi), then your fuel cost will be $10,358 for the round trip.

I wonder if you might not be better off getting two boats for the same total cost and keeping one in the PNW and one in the Caribbean. If you're not making 5,000 nmi trips, then the boats wouldn't need to be as capable. One of the boats could be the one you already have. Then you could use the $10K that you would spend on fuel and fly first class and have $7.5K left over. If you keep the boat you're not using on the hard the $7.5K should cover the additional storage cost. You could spend a week getting each boat ready for storage and a week getting one ready to get underway and still have 24 weeks in the PNW and 24 weeks in the Caribbean.
 
portager said:
I wonder if you've fully considered the implications of that plan? The distance from Seattle WA to Miami FL via the Panama canal is 5,179 nautical miles each way or 10,358 nmi round trip. So, making the round trip once a year at 6 knots would require 1,726 hours underway, or 20% of the hours in a year. If you spend as many days in port between passages (waiting on weather etc.) as you spend underway, then you would spend 40% of the year or ~21 weeks in transit round trip. That leaves 30% of the year or 15.6 weeks in Washington and 15.6 weeks in Florida (or the Caribbean). In addition assuming your fuel burn per nautical mile is roughly the inverse of your average cost of fuel (i.e. $4/gallon * 0.25 gallons/nmi = $1/nmi), then your fuel cost will be $10,358 for the round trip.

I wonder if you might not be better off getting two boats for the same total cost and keeping one in the PNW and one in the Caribbean. If you're not making 5,000 nmi trips, then the boats wouldn't need to be as capable. One of the boats could be the one you already have. Then you could use the $10K that you would spend on fuel and fly first class and have $7.5K left over. If you keep the boat you're not using on the hard the $7.5K should cover the additional storage cost. You could spend a week getting each boat ready for storage and a week getting one ready to get underway and still have 24 weeks in the PNW and 24 weeks in the Caribbean.
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Now that's something to consider. We had talked about two and that is still on the board. However my full time or boat that I spend more time in I would like to search out the "ideal" boat for the family. :thumb:
 
Krogen 42 or Willard 40. Don't think you can find a Nordhavn 40 in your budget range.

Also take a look at some of the smaller DeFevers.
 
You may well be surprised at the "economics" between planing and full displacement boats, especially at 7 knots or less. Research, a lot. Even gasoline is not that big of a deal at low speed. My 300 hp Merc Vee Rod outboard gets 10 mpg at 6 knots., and you cannot hear it running.
 
kulas44 said:
You may well be surprised at the "economics" between planing and full displacement boats, especially at 7 knots or less. Research, a lot. Even gasoline is not that big of a deal at low speed. My 300 hp Merc Vee Rod outboard gets 10 mpg at 6 knots., and you cannot hear it running.
Click to expand...
Oh yes those veradoes are so quite you don't even know they're running. I went on a friends seavee with a pair of them, amazingly quiet!
 
While I know I should leave this post alone I can not help myself to push the initiator with my same question regarding budget versus plan. At $175K for the boat it just doesn't sound like you did your homework or are willing to look at the true cost to complete your plans. OK, enough said since it is not my business.

Now back to boats. I agree the KK 42 is likely one of your better choices and maybe you will find one that works but I think a little change in plans and a serious semi-displacement boat could possibly work better. Keep researching and reading what others have accomplished, you may be surprised.

John T
N3522
La Tempestad
 
N4061 said:
While I know I should leave this post alone I can not help myself to push the initiator with my same question regarding budget versus plan. At $175K for the boat it just doesn't sound like you did your homework or are willing to look at the true cost to complete your plans. OK, enough said since it is not my business.

Now back to boats. I agree the KK 42 is likely one of your better choices and maybe you will find one that works but I think a little change in plans and a serious semi-displacement boat could possibly work better. Keep researching and reading what others have accomplished, you may be surprised.

John T
N3522
La Tempestad
Click to expand...

Personally I do not see a problem with the OP's budget.

There are plenty of really nice boats in his price range, and lower that would be quite suitable to go along the coastline, through the canal, and on from there.

We need to remember that this is coastal cruising, and darn near any boat could make the trip safely.

This is not passagemaking. It might seem like a long ways, but itys really a series of short hops between safe harbors.

It doesnt take a Nordhavn to do that.

I'll come right out and say it, my Bayliner 4788 could do it, and if I can ever convince the admrial I'll be happy to go in my boat.

If you guys would like I can post a link to a blog of a couple that spent years happily cruising from washington, down the coast and all through Mexico in a 41' or 42' President Sundeck.

Passagemakers have their place, but they are not necessary for coastal cruising.
 
ksanders said:
Personally I do not see a problem with the OP's budget.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this except that the OP wants an LRC that is a full displacement, with a back-up propulsion, Pilothouse, flybridge, washer & dryer, etc.

When reading the OP's original post, it was obvious to me that he wants a solid cruising boat. It seems like he was describing a Nordhavn but with a budget for an older semi displacement trawler.

Many suggested a KK42, but how many of them have get-home engines? My vote is to either change plans or save more money for an older N46 which fits your desires except that the cockpit would be very tight with 4 chairs.
 
mahal said:
I would agree with this except that the OP wants an LRC that is a full displacement, with a back-up propulsion, Pilothouse, flybridge, washer & dryer, etc.

When reading the OP's original post, it was obvious to me that he wants a solid cruising boat. It seems like he was describing a Nordhavn but with a budget for an older semi displacement trawler.

Many suggested a KK42, but how many of them have get-home engines? My vote is to either change plans or save more money for an older N46 which fits your desires except that the cockpit would be very tight with 4 chairs.
Click to expand...


Hmmm... Nordhavn...

Why does everybody assume that a FD pilothouse trawler has to be a Nordhavn.

Hmmm...

Possibly he is describing a Defever 49 RPH

1978 Defever 49 Pilothouse Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1979 Defever Pilot House Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or a Meridian 48' Pilot House

1974 Trojan Meridian Raised Pilothouse Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or possibly a Sea Ranger pilothouse

1980 Sea Ranger Europa Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Maybe a Delta custom 50

1978 BoatYard 50 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Could be that a Choy Lee pilothouse fits the bill

1977 Cheoy Lee CL-50 World Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

and these boats are all within a couple hours drive of the OP right now. They are all capable, full displacement trawlers meeting his budget with room for fitting out.
 
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mahal said:
Many suggested a KK42, but how many of them have get-home engines? My vote is to either change plans or save more money for an older N46 which fits your desires except that the cockpit would be very tight with 4 chairs.
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with your assessment but knowing all boats are a compromise it's fair to say none but the most affluent boaters get everything on their list. The most rigid requirement for most is budget.

Personally when looking at a list of desires if a model checks the majority of a posters wishes while staying within budget, I recommend it. Only the OP will ever determine if its workable or not. Had the OP stated a budget of up to $400k my recommendation would have been different.

I recall a magazine article back in the late 70's early 80's about a couple traveling across the Pacific from the west coast US to Bora Bora on a 34 or 36' MT double cabin with a Lehman 120. The boat was darn near a floating fuel can but made it there and back without incident. Without internet, chart plotter, GPS or professional weather router one wonders how they made it.
 
My 300 hp Merc Vee Rod outboard gets 10 mpg at 6 knots., and you cannot hear it running.

And you can replace it with factory new for the price of a modern diesel brain box.
 
boatpoker said:
I'd suggest not shopping for a brand but go on to yacht world and search according to preferenced features. In almost 3000 surveys I have come across three boats (two trawlers, one sailboat) that I could find nothing wrong with and built to perfection. All three were homebuilt steel boats.
Click to expand...

I think this is the right direction if budget and certain priorities are a must.

Production boats are usually the biggest of all the compromise boats unless they target a small group of boaters (like long range cruisers)...that's why just a few "wants" narrow the list so quickly.

When you don't want compromise in a boat, sometimes buying a custom boat is the best solution because someone else made sure the wants were there without paying for the frills in a production boat...thus you get what you want at a reduced cost.

Plus the resale price is lower because the buyer pool is smaller.

As boatpoker pointed out...I think overall you will get a boat closer to your "wants", probably as well or better built for your needs than many of the production jobs and one that meets the purchase budget even if it may take some money before it is restored to 100%.
 
bshillam said:
Ok so I have done some looking here Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Four things:

  1. Did you go to the Seattle boat show?
  2. A trip to Juneau via AK State Ferry will allow you to assess on the big stage who brings what to the party.
  3. For years Waggoners Cruising Guide was written from the cabin of a 36 Tolly and Douglas/Hemingways Guides from a 37 Nordic Tug.
  4. FD vs SD has little to do with safety at sea (think crew capability first and foremost) or annual boating costs (lots more to it than GPH).
 
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ksanders said:
Hmmm... Nordhavn...

Why does everybody assume that a FD pilothouse trawler has to be a Nordhavn.

Hmmm...

Possibly he is describing a Defever 49 RPH

1978 Defever 49 Pilothouse Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1979 Defever Pilot House Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or a Meridian 48' Pilot House

1974 Trojan Meridian Raised Pilothouse Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or possibly a Sea Ranger pilothouse

1980 Sea Ranger Europa Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Maybe a Delta custom 50

1978 BoatYard 50 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Could be that a Choy Lee pilothouse fits the bill

1977 Cheoy Lee CL-50 World Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

and these boats are all within a couple hours drive of the OP right now. They are all capable, full displacement trawlers meeting his budget with room for fitting out.
Click to expand...

Bingo! I think you found the right boat in the Cheoy Lee. I keep thinking Nordhavn 46 because I just can't find any other FD, pilothouse,FB, single with get-home or twin boat out there that is somewhat affordable. But this Cheoy Lee fits the bill.

By the way the Defever 49 PH and Sea Ranger PH are nice boats but the OP is looking for a full displacement.
 
Mahal,
A lot of people on this forum THINK those boats are FD.
 
Greetings,
Mr. manyboats. So NONE of the boats listed in post #51 are full displacement? I'm still confused as to the concept in trying to determine whether mine is FD or not. I've been told it is....The bottom very closely resembles that of the Cheoy Lee 50'.
 
manyboats said:
Mahal,
A lot of people on this forum THINK those boats are FD.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the OP also???

I know I'm not looking at hull form, but a Defever 49 PH with 120 hp engines will never reach any sort of planing speeds.

I know I'm technically wrong here but I consider all of those boats to be FD.
 
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RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
So NONE of the boats listed in post #51 are full displacement? I'm still confused as to the concept in trying to determine whether mine is FD or not.
Click to expand...

Apparently Art DeFever was confused too. You are in very good company.

But Art didn't let it bother him, he just kept drawing efficient vessels that carry big loads, are safe at sea and will last forever.
 
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