Our next boat, LRC Full Displacement.

Ok so I have done some looking here and there and I have started working on a laundry list of our long term boat. I figured I would get some opinion on what boat fits the list from some current owners. Yes we have something now - and will probably work for the next few years but as most of you know. When you start looking it can take years to find the right boat before you put your hard earned funds down to begin enjoying her. So here's a list,
Full displacement - economy is a must as well as long range. (We're West Coasters and want to be able to go through Panama and use her as a winter home in FL or the likes) 6 knots is plenty fast for us. We can always equip her with a fast tender.
Two staterooms - perferably one with bunks or twins as our son is liable to want to bring a friend as he ages.
Single with thruster(s) or twin, I am leaning more towards single w/ a get home
Pilothouse style for night operations
A respectable engine room, I don't want to age out of boating or have to hire a mechanic just to change the oil. Easy access to systems is going to be most important. I don't mind hiring a pro for the heavy lifting but enjoy doing all the regular routine maintenance myself. Everything from starters and alternators to oil but no engine rebuilds in my future.
Easy access to systems outside of the engine room such as shower sumps, batteries, propane, you name it. I don't want to have to cut into a panel because someone behind a desk didn't think anyone would ever have to access a hose...
Flybridge - I have noticed that some of the pilothouse style don't have flybridges. Bottom line, I want a bridge to enjoy the sunny days.
A cockpit for four in chairs
Since we are going to be out for weeks at a time a laundry machine
Oh - what makes/models come with a dry stack? It appears this might be a better approach to handling spent exhaust? What are the drawbacks?
Budget - under $175k
Thoughts?

Krogen 42

Been thinking that's high on the list. Probably need to tour one too. Just looked at a new one at the boat show (maybe when we reach retirement) and that blew me away just thought the finish was stellar. I'd like to check out an older one that would be closer to my budget. When did KK move away from a cored below waterline?

Nordhavn, but probably hard to pull off on a $175k budget. But an N46 might not be out of the question.

Are the Defevers in the same league as the Nordhavns and KK? 1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I like the above selections and might add the Hatteras 42 LRC.

bshillam said:

Are the Defevers in the same league as the Nordhavns and KK? 1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

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You might want to check to see if they have the same range, assuming that's important to you. I'm thinking they don't, but am not sure.

The Hatteras look doesn't work for me. Just too high of a stern/aft cabin. I really like the salty/traditional look of the KK and Defevers.

I think you should look at Richard Soto's Willard 40, Northstar. This is an great vessel that has been updated sensibly, taken care of and worth a look.

Rather than shopping for a brand you need to be shopping for a boat. The Willard 40 hasn't been mentioned yet (I think) and the big problem is that your'e not only shopping for FD but a Passagemaker.

Talk to Sunchaser here and others. Pound the pavement on the net and on the street. The more stones you uncover the better your chances. That's obvious of course but probably more so for you.

Looks like you've got a good idea about what you want but it dosn't look like you're flexible enough. You may be well served if you make some well thought out lists. What you can do without. Be realistic. For example if the perfect boat came along w/o a FB what would you do? There will be pluses and minuses and you may think you've got it all figured out and you'll find a boat that has'nt got several of your must haves and makes your eyes bug out and mouth drop open. You may find yourself in a gotta have it status.

It may .. probably won't be as profound as that but flexibility will be your friend in many scenarios that one can never predict. The only way to get a near perfect boat is to build and design it yourself. You may gain valuable knowledge on Boat Design.net. The yahoo group WBO .. Willard Boat Owners may be helpful too.

But you probably came to the right place. Good luck.

If you have a flybridge that's easy to get to you do you really need a cockpit?

For a washer and dryer....depending on designs you are starting to get up there in size...my 40 Albin has almost no place that I want to give up to fit even a Splendide washer/dryer. So if you are talking large 40 or 42 to fit one in and not give up valuable space for something else. Once in that size range and a boat in good shape....your budget may not afford a lot of opportunities with leftover for outfitting/upgrading.

Drystack is probably just something you "think" you like, but have no experience with. Dont get me wrong, I love it, but its not for everyone. Full displacement does not neccessarily mean long range. Single engine may not be more economical than twins, definitely not easier to operate. If I were you I would spend some time on prospective boats and not just go by what you have read, or, heaven forbid, what you find on the net. The "best buy" right now is a 45 to 55 foot older sportfisher with old Detroit Diesels. Spend the money to put a pair of Cummins 210 6bt's in and you have a GREAT cruising boat. Easy to handle, built super stout, Easy and low maintenace, with a big back porch and comfortable accomadations for the captain and Admiral (less so for guests, a good thing) a flybridge, washer/dryer, large tankage, etc. Really hard to beat for long range coastal cruising. And they just look WAY COOL !!!

Krogen 42.
The most efficient boat out there for that size and money.
Look at my posting for my Bahamas trip, look at my fuel burn, 1.3 gal/hr for 700 nm. 2800 nm range.

Also all the features you want including two heads, etc. Wet exhaust is actually safer.

I have heard that the Willard is very similar.

kulas wrote;

"The "best buy" right now is a 45 to 55 foot older sportfisher with old Detroit Diesels."

The guy wants FD and LONG RANGE. Sportfisher is a cross between a rocket and a barge.

Yeah, Willard. How did I forget to mention Willard. Great hull. I probably wouldn't have mentioned the Hatteras 42LRC unless you spoke about the washer/dryer, two staterooms and full displacement in that price range. Out there, you might find a few custom steel hulled FD boats that might have what you want.

Wxx3 said:

Wet exhaust is actually safer.

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Just curious how so?

bshillam said:

Are the Defevers in the same league as the Nordhavns and KK? 1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

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I have looked really hard at Defevers and have been on few of them. I think they are really great vessels and I rate it second on my list of vessels. If the Defever fits your needs take a really hard look at it and go from there.

All the best in your search.

Happy cruising.

H. Foster

Every boat is a trade off in one way or another. Odds are you'll never find a boat that meets every criteria that you set. When the right boat comes along, you will know it instantly. One criteria that has to be highest on your list is the Admiral must love it or your life will be miserable. Just saying.

hmason said:

Every boat is a trade off in one way or another. Odds are you'll never find a boat that meets every criteria that you set. When the right boat comes along, you will know it instantly. One criteria that has to be highest on your list is the Admiral must love it or your life will be miserable. Just saying.

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so true!

Most folks new to big boats, especially if they have a "conservative" mindset, think they want a full displacement boat. And most dont even know why, except that its the "in thing". I understand the rocket comment, but the barge part confuses me. And, I said "put in a pair of Cummins 6bt 210 hp engines" No longer a rocket, and still more user friendly than just about any other type of big boat made. A decent 53 Hatt can be had for 75k. 30k for engines, another 10k just to make it like you want, and you have an awsome cruising boat, and did I mention they look WAY COOL !!!

Forgot, most sportfishers over 45 feet have large tankage, neccessary for big hungry engines and long range fishing trips. My 48 sporty holds 1000 gallons of fuel, and 500 gallons of fresh water. With smaller more economical engines 2 mpg would not be hard to get, probably 3mpg at 6 knots. So, lets do the math. At 2mpg with 10 % reserve, thats about 1800 miles. Pretty good range I would say. Way more than most comparable size boats, trawlers and FDs included.

Something Bill never mentioned is one engine or two, with the second engine being either a full size engine or a get home engine.

This will make a HUGE difference in that one question might eliminate allot of great boats.

Bill, are you comfortable in very remote places with one engine and no backup?

The next question is just as important. If you are going to travel with a partner (I do not know your marital status) is she comfortable with one engine.

Answer the engine question before you consider any other feature.

AND

To the inevitable one vs two arguments this will start, Please remember in this circumstance Bills is the only opinion that really counts.

Here's more food for thought Bill. The voyage you are talking about was recently completed by Larry, in a KK42. Read his posts. He traveled all that way and never HAD TO go over 300 miles between fuel stops.

You don't need a passagemaker for what you have planned. If you want one, thats fine, but realize that wanting and needing are two separate things.

DeFevers are not "true" full displacement. Our 48 is much more FD then SD though. Why the pilothouse requirement for night operation? I run mine 24/7 without a pilothouse. When it comes to engine rooms Art DeFever wrote the book.

Yup ... you can go to the Safeway store in your Ferrari or Humvee too but they aren't best for that duty at all. WAY unsuitable. Lots of better choices.

For long distance travel offshore a FD (or better a double ender) is by a considerable margin a better choice. And that's what Bill called for. Better seaworthyness better range greater comfort and better safety. Bill has the fortune of not having a boat and can pick and choose so why look at anything that isn't suitable for the job? The only reason I can think of is if no really good deep sea boat is available. Bill's on the right track thinking this through and I hope he keeps his eye on the ball.

Sounds to me like a W40 or KK42 is perfect for the job. To it's credit the KK has no FB but the W40 does. And as somebody pointed out Soto's W40 is availible but I don't know his price.

Lots of great feedback so far. Great suggestion for a sport fisher but I already have a sport fisher. What blew me away recently was reading that the new KK39 carries 700 gallons and at a pace of 6 knots can go over 4000 miles with a 10% reserve. Now - I am not going 4000 miles between fuel ups but it certainly gives one choices when and where they are going to be fueling. As well - that translates to 5.7 knots per gallon of fuel. I am looking for something that is going to be safe, retain value, something I can enjoy for a long term ownership, my family will not outgrow, well built. There are certain things I am will to coincide such as a pilot house but will not remove the cock pit as we enjoy having a direct walk out from the salon to the cock pit area for entertaining, enjoying our sundowners etc. I like the flow of the door on the stern with chairs on the back. The cabin trunk just doesn't appeal to me or my wife. Oh-so far she and I are on the same page for wants/needs.

The Krogen trawlers, especially the 42, and even more so the 54, (the OLD models) are my most favorite boats by far. Resale value is good, the look will never go out of style, economical to operate, etc. There are usually a few on the market. But, it is a VERY buyer beware boat. In the last 15 years I have read a disturbing number of posts on boating (mostly trawler) forums concerning Krogen trawlers. Mostly to do with inferior repairs of just about every kind, including multiple questions (and poorly given advice) about injecting epoxy (or poly) into rotten cores and deck plywood instead of doing the job correctly. Of course this happens with older boats of every kind, but, Krogens are held to a higher standard. After all, thats one of the main reasons for there resale value.

Would steel decks be preferable?

bshillam said:

What blew me away recently was reading that the new KK39 carries 700 gallons and at a pace of 6 knots can go over 4000 miles with a 10% reserve. Now - I am not going 4000 miles between fuel ups but it certainly gives one choices when and where they are going to be fueling. As well - that translates to 5.7 knots per gallon of fuel.

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Those numbers are not accurate at all. The best you can hope for is about 3.5-4 MPG that works out to 2200+- miles. We burn 1.9 gph at 6.8 knots at 48' LOA 30 tons. Those are stunning numbers. In the end it's not about fuel burn with any of these choices. It's about all the little things that makes the boat talk to you. You will know when you found the right boat.

With a budget of $175K and your ambitious plans you may want to reconsider both the boat and plans. Being a current boater you should have some idea of the costs you are likely facing and the type of boat required for a safe journey. Will your post purchase budget last the duration you have planned? Even if you find a boat for $175K how much reserve do you have for outfitting, repairs and getting the boat safe to travel thousands of miles.

What if you tweaked your plans to closer to home cruising and find a clean, well built, single engine smaller boat that you can do some serious coastal cruising? In the end you may up having a better time without being stressed out worrying about matching your dream to your budget. Another option may be a capable sailboat? I have seen many people with dreams larger then their budget ending up selling their boat before they even got started. Just my two cents worth.

John T.
N3522
La Tempestad

The KKs and Nordys rate very high but may be out of your price range.
The De Fever RPH of 48 ft and above provided they have the smaller engines, adequate fuel capacity and stabilisers, would be a VG choice.

By the time you retire 1. You may have some more money or 2. Some of the older Ns and KKs may be in your price range.

Re flybridge.
I cruise the Great Barrier Reef here in Australia all the time , have done for the last 18 years. Don't require a flybridge but an adequate back deck room for a small table and a couple of chairs is important for sitting around at the end of the day, near the duckboard for swimming and relaxing.
Oh and by the way near the drink frig.
Cheers
Benn