Holding Tank Systems

Hi,

Seeking advice on simple holding tank systems that are readily available in Australia suitable for fitting in an Island Gypsy 32?

Thanks,

Do you already have a holding tank and want to replace it? Then measure the existing tank and seach the Internet for a similar sized tank with the fittings in the same place. Some companies will make a custom tank for you or install fittings where you need them in an otherwise stock tank.

If you don't already have a holding tank, you'll need to measure the space available, figure out where the fittings need to be, then search the Internet for what you need or a company to build what you need.

If this is all new to you and there's no existing system, it might be best to hire a pro so you end up with a properly installed and working system.

Consider space in bilge between engines and have Atlas tanks make a custom tank to fit. They will use a suitable no-smell poly and will incorporate inlet and outlet flanges/nipples/holes that that you require. Vetus has a holding tank valve (stops the tank imploding when pumped out) and also an excellent pump...their schematic attached below. Do you have a toilet(s) yet....if yes, what type?

Would like to have a tank in the bilge but the space is irregular (keel) shaped so hard to measure. Has anyone heard of some kind of product to pour in place or inflate to create a plug for a mold? Vetus used to have some kind of tank that inflated and then cured to become a hard tank but I think it's no longer on the market.

Suggest you get a book on fiberglass repair or fabrication. It is very easy to work with and when you get used to it, it can be addicting in that there isn't much you cant do with it. There is a certain type of foam wall board insulation that will not melt with fiberglass resin and you could use that for a form. I cant remember which one it is. Whatever you do, do not build this in place. The resin fumes are overwhelming and could possibly kill you. build it out in an open area.

Not sure why you think it is hard to measure up for a keel/bilge tank...you don't have to use all the space, you just develop a shape that has the widest possible base of constant width & the widest possible top of constant width; and the sides can comprise 2 angles which make the most of the angle within the bilge. I have never heard of Vetus having a pour-in-place tank solution, but what they DO have are flexible tanks suited to waste water in a couple of different sizes and there may be one there that would suit your bilge space...in which case that would be an easy, quick and low-cost solution.

On The Rocks said:

Would like to have a tank in the bilge but the space is irregular (keel) shaped so hard to measure. Has anyone heard of some kind of product to pour in place or inflate to create a plug for a mold? Vetus used to have some kind of tank that inflated and then cured to become a hard tank but I think it's no longer on the market.

Click to expand...

You know the hull can be the bottom of the tank?

So measuring is not really all that big of a deal because if you have room you can build in place.

You build up 4 walls with a flange on top.....filet the inside bottoms and glass/epoxy...then a epoxy/glass (with or without plywood core) top can be glassed or bolted/gasketed on. Will probably do the same on my boat when I get around to enlarging/customizing my system.

My Albin has a glass tank with gel coat inside....scrubbed out clean last year and not a stain or hint of a smell when clean.

Brizvagas Mark said:

Hi,

Seeking advice on simple holding tank systems that are readily available in Australia suitable for fitting in an Island Gypsy 32?

Thanks,

Click to expand...

IMO

If you are at all in question regarding toilet and black water tank - Do yourself a BIG long term favor and hire an expert... as well, buy only the BEST products. Holding tank is one of the most important features of your boat.

Mistakes with black water can ruin your day after day after day after...

I was going to write up something but Paul (Aquabelle) has given you all the info you need for doing the job here in Aus. Atlas are a SE Qld company , I think they are still based on the Sunny Coast.
Cheers
Benn

The Canadians are real serious about holding tanks , and how they are emptied , as much is into their lakes , their drinking water.

In the US folks seem to have tanks because they are forced to , not because of any pollution hassle from cruising boats.

The simplest lake system is a connection to the tank from the head and then only a deck waste fitting.

For operation elsewhere an Edison 1-1/2 manual bilge pump , mounted on a board , on board anyway as emergency gear,is simply plugged into the waste fitting .

For non inspected areas only a small tank is required as its so easy to empty.

And the system will pass the most difficult inspection , anywhere.

IN AU it will be the boat use , and the ease of dockside pumping that will decide on system size.

Our 34' tri: Front stateroom electric macerator toilet goes directly into 30 gal holding tank for pump out, NO overboard outlet exists. Master stateroom electric macerator toilet empties into function able Raritan LectraSan with an obscure, padlocked 50 amp main breaker cut off switch to negate or to power toilet’s engine and LectraSan. Toilet seat custom clamped to bowl with custom stitch and zippered white vinyl cover that sets over entire unit (so toilet is not seen and becomes a seat only)... this security trio stops all that toilet’s functions and use... when appropriate! That arrangement for forward and rear heads’ toilet use or shut down passes with flying colors... when required... !

BTW: Some six years ago I had a Raritan installation expert set up our forward holding tank arrangement. He also serviced our LectraSan set up in master head. Forward head was previously LectraSan too... so I have a spare unit if needed. He did a fine job... we've not had a minutes problem since!

I have a 1982 32' Island Gypsy Sedan with an electric LectraSan system. I seem to have some odor in the head and not sure how to get rid of it. Are there any deodorizers I might be able to add to rid the head of the odor?

Perhaps I should double check if there might be sewage in the holding tank? It's an old boat and I don't know if anyone pumped any waste into the holding tank. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Rick

I have a 1982 32' Island Gypsy Sedan with an electric LectraSan system. I seem to have some odor in the head and not sure how to get rid of it. Are there any deodorizers I might be able to add to rid the head of the odor?

Perhaps I should double check if there might be sewage in the holding tank? It's an old boat and I don't know if anyone pumped any waste into the holding tank. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Rick


First, check your Y valve to see if it is operational. I am assuming you have a dual system whereby you can pump directly overboard,or into your holding tank.It is the Y valve that determines which direction the waste goes.Is it operational?. If not try running some Canola or sunflower oil through the system, via the bowl and trying manually loosen the valve.If this doesn't work you may have to buy a new valve.

Once you have the valve working rinse out the holding tank with lots of fresh water and perhaps a chemical designed for the holding tank. Bleach?

Second, do you use raw(salt) water for flushing, if you do the toilets should be well flushed with fresh water regularly to ensure that there are no residue micro organisms in the lines that die and decay, which creates a odoriferous salty smell.

Obviously, in all of the above take note of your relevant laws regarding discharge of black water.

I would measure the floor area in the existing head and try to find a plastic tank that would fill a large area .

I would mount a RV gravity style toilet on the surface and build a floor to step on on top of the tank.

Moving the head up will aid the accuracy for gents and not be a hassle for the folks that sit.

The reduction in water volume will allow a smaller tank be ysed with no fitting or filling hassles.

Run a waste pipe up to the deck and the pee pee police will be happy.

Plug in a maceriator or hand pump to the same deck fitting for overboard discharge..

Low cost , great reliability ,LEGAL WORLDWIDE.

More than likely you need to clean out the water passages in the bowl itself. As mentioned organic matter can get stuck in there and rot. To clean it properly remove the bowl from the base, take it off the boat and turn it upside down. Then you can access the water passage molded into the bowl that feeds the smaller passages that shoots the water around the rim of the bowl.

Just flushing the bowl with water doesn't clean the small water passages around the lip of the rim very well. So I pour a mixture of diluted muriatic acid into the passages and let it sit. Then repeat it a few times while scrubbing the rim holes between flushes. Then flush the passages real well with a hose. You might be amazed at all the crud that comes out. And how much more water flows out the rim passages when you reinstall the bowl on the base and flush the head.

To prevent stuff from acumulating in the future install an inline filter in the raw water line feeding the head.

Capt.Bill11 said:

More than likely you need to clean out the water passages in the bowl itself. As mentioned organic matter can get stuck in there and rot. To clean it properly remove the bowl from the base, take it off the boat and turn it upside down. Then you can access the water passage molded into the bowl that feeds the smaller passages that shoots the water around the rim of the bowl.

Just flushing the bowl with water doesn't clean the small water passages around the lip of the rim very well. So I pour a mixture of diluted muriatic acid into the passages and let it sit. Then repeat it a few times while scrubbing the rim holes between flushes. Then flush the passages real well with a hose. You might be amazed at all the crud that comes out. And how much more water flows out the rim passages when you reinstall the bowl on the base and flush the head.

To prevent stuff from acumulating in the future install an inline filter in the raw water line feeding the head.

Click to expand...

CAUTION!!! muriatic acid... mentioned above is a strong corrosive to metals. It can eat them alive while the metal is immersed! For most rubbers/plastic it does not react corrosively. Just be careful.

islandgypsy said:

I have a 1982 32' Island Gypsy Sedan with an electric LectraSan system. I seem to have some odor in the head and not sure how to get rid of it. Are there any deodorizers I might be able to add to rid the head of the odor?

Perhaps I should double check if there might be sewage in the holding tank? It's an old boat and I don't know if anyone pumped any waste into the holding tank. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Rick

Click to expand...

You've hijacked someone else's thread here. The OP is asking about replacing a holding tank. You've essentially come along and changed the subject to head odor.

It would be more polite to start a new post on a new subject.

Just my .02

Call that a hijack?

If it was a real hijack we would now be discussing Leonard Nimoy's death and the best episode of Star Trek, with a few comments from the mods thrown in.

Agreed. Just don't know how to do that.
Can you point me in the right direction as to how to start a new topic?
Thanks and sorry to be impolite

islandgypsy said:

Agreed. Just don't know how to do that.
Can you point me in the right direction as to how to start a new topic?
Thanks and sorry to be impolite

Click to expand...

You can find everything you need to know about doing that and a whole lot more at this thread.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s22/set-up-your-account-|-help-tips-etc-5739.html

It's a good read for new folks and old hands alike. It is a sticky at the top of the Forum Suggestion section.

Now, my favorite Star Trek episode was...

islandgypsy said:

I have a 1982 32' Island Gypsy Sedan with an electric LectraSan system. I seem to have some odor in the head and not sure how to get rid of it. Are there any deodorizers I might be able to add to rid the head of the odor? Perhaps I should double check if there might be sewage in the holding tank? It's an old boat and I don't know if anyone pumped any waste into the holding tank. Any ideas? Thanks, Rick

Click to expand...

Unless your holding tank is in the head, it's not likely to be the source of odor in the head. When odor IS odor is confined to the head, the source is almost always either the shower sump (a sump in need of cleaning is full of soap scum, body oils, dirty bath water etc that can make the head smell like a swamp or even a sewer), or--if the toilet uses raw water--the head intake. Sea water left to sit between visits to the boat can stagnate and stink...animal or vegetable micro and not-so-micro sea life can be pulled into the intake line, or even into the channel in the rim of the bowl, where it can die decay and stink.

So first thing I'd do is clean the shower sump. If that doesn't cure the problem, close the intake seacock, remove the head intak hose from the thru-hull and stick it into a bucket of clean FRESH water to which you've added a quart of distilled white vinegar (NOT cider!)...flush the whole bucket through the system. Continue adding water to the head using a cup (if the toilet is an electric toilet that has an intake impeller, refill the bucket as needed instead) for a few days.

The only other likely sources for odor that's confined to the head are any y-valve installed in the head that may be leaking...or MAYBE a joker valves that's so worn out that it's allowing gasses from inside the discharge hose (a reason why you should always rinse out the hose with a bowl full of water once a day) to escape back into the bowl.

If it's none of the above, send me a PM and we'll get together one-on-one to find it.

On The Rocks said:

Would like to have a tank in the bilge but the space is irregular (keel) shaped so hard to measure.

Click to expand...

Check Ronco Plastics (no relation to Ron Popeil and his Pocket Fisherman etc)...they make TOP quality rotomolded water and waste tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular...and they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. Ronco Plastics Marine Catalog

Art said:

CAUTION!!! muriatic acid... mentioned above is a strong corrosive to metals. It can eat them alive while the metal is immersed! For most rubbers/plastic it does not react corrosively. Just be careful.

Click to expand...

There is no metal in a porcelain toilet bowl.

Art said:

CAUTION!!! muriatic acid... mentioned above is a strong corrosive to metals. It can eat them alive while the metal is immersed! For most rubbers/plastic it does not react corrosively. Just be careful.

Click to expand...

Full strength maybe...but yards have been using muriatic acid to dissolve mineral buildup in hoses (not just sewage hoses) for decades...and also for decades Raritan's instructions for cleaning the electrode pack (which is definitely metal) in the LectraSan and ElectroScan called for a 12% solution of muriatic acid...until they began private labelling "Sew Clean" under their own brand name "C.H. Cleans Hoses" just a couple of years ago.

HeadMistress said:

Full strength maybe...but yards have been using muriatic acid to dissolve mineral buildup in hoses (not just sewage hoses) for decades...and also for decades Raritan's instructions for cleaning the electrode pack (which is definitely metal) in the LectraSan and ElectroScan called for a 12% solution of muriatic acid...until they began private labelling "Sew Clean" under their own brand name "C.H. Cleans Hoses" just a couple of years ago.

Click to expand...

Respectfully I say: I'd like to see the electrode-pack metal after more than once for a very short time in a 12% muriatic acid mixture. Under different conditions and for numerous reasons I've for decades worked with various dilutions of muriatic acid. When muriatic acid contacts metal it begins to corrode metal.

Art said:

Respectfully I say: I'd like to see the electrode-pack metal after more than once for a very short time in a 12% muriatic acid mixture. Under different conditions and for numerous reasons I've for decades worked with various dilutions of muriatic acid. When muriatic acid contacts metal it begins to corrode metal.

Click to expand...

This is straight from my Raritan LectraSan Owner's Manual:

Treatment/Electrode cleaning

Note: Cleaning is recommended every two years with
recreational use or if amber light is always on during
treatment cycle.

1. Activate the LST/MC and flush toilet several times,
allowing all waste to be treated.
2. Turn off water supply and flush toilet as dry as possible.
NOTE: Check toilet manufacturer's instructions to ensure
no damage is done to any components.
3. Turn off power and disconnect wires to LST/MC.
WARNING: LST/MC must not be activated while muriatic
acid solution is in the system.
4. In plastic bucket combine 1.5 pints (.852 liters) of muriatic
acid with 3 gallons (13.635 liters) of fresh water.
WARNING: Add acid to the water, DO NOT place acid in
the container first.
5. Carefully pour solution into the toilet and flush until bowl
is as dry as possible.
6. Pour one gallon (3.8 liters) of additional fresh water into
bowl to dilute any acid remaining.
7. Allow to stand for a minimum of 45 minutes.
8. Turn on water supply and flush a minimum of 10 gallons
(38.0 liters) of water to dilute and discharge muriatic acid
solution.
9. Reconnect wires and restore power to LST/MC.

The above specifies a 6% solution, for 45 minutes. Whatever the electrodes are made of, it is apparently pretty non-corrosive in that concentration of muriatic acid.

For difficult placements Vetus and others sell 35G flexible tanks , with fittings you install for the best operation.

After 2 or so decades they get stiff , but still work, and don't stink out..

Best if rested in rug or carpet so motion underway , or from filling does not cause chafe.

Simple but Pri$y.

LarryM said:

This is straight from my Raritan LectraSan Owner's Manual:

Treatment/Electrode cleaning

Note: Cleaning is recommended every two years with
recreational use or if amber light is always on during
treatment cycle.

1. Activate the LST/MC and flush toilet several times,
allowing all waste to be treated.
2. Turn off water supply and flush toilet as dry as possible.
NOTE: Check toilet manufacturer's instructions to ensure
no damage is done to any components.
3. Turn off power and disconnect wires to LST/MC.
WARNING: LST/MC must not be activated while muriatic
acid solution is in the system.
4. In plastic bucket combine 1.5 pints (.852 liters) of muriatic
acid with 3 gallons (13.635 liters) of fresh water.
WARNING: Add acid to the water, DO NOT place acid in
the container first.
5. Carefully pour solution into the toilet and flush until bowl
is as dry as possible.
6. Pour one gallon (3.8 liters) of additional fresh water into
bowl to dilute any acid remaining.
7. Allow to stand for a minimum of 45 minutes.
8. Turn on water supply and flush a minimum of 10 gallons
(38.0 liters) of water to dilute and discharge muriatic acid
solution.
9. Reconnect wires and restore power to LST/MC.

The above specifies a 6% solution, for 45 minutes. Whatever the electrodes are made of, it is apparently pretty non-corrosive in that concentration of muriatic acid.

Click to expand...

Larry - Apparently is the operative phrase that bothers me.

Maybe the electrode material composition does have ample components to not be too badly affected by 6% muriatic acid solution for 45 minutes. Also, maybe when done in the suggested 2 year periods this process accomplishes the required cleaning off surfaces of electrodes but is another reason why electrodes wear for eventual service/replacement. Seems that the muriatic acid to clean the electrodes must be causing the electrode's surface to "shed" molecules via corrosive action and therefore "drop" the built-up coatings off electrode surfaces. Muriatic acid, in and of itself, is corrosive to many metals... just that simple.


Some metals seem not affected.

Watch VERY Closely:

"muriatic means "pertaining to brine or salt", and thence muriate means hydrochloride

Art,

A number of years ago, I called Raritan about the electrodes. I was told they were "titanium plates coated with a rare earth element."

In the manual "Titanium - Corrosion by Acids" by Timnet, a material manufacturer in Colorado, they state:

"Hydrochloric Acid - Iso-corrosion data illustrate that grade 2 offers useful corrosion resistance to about 7% hydrochloric acid at room temperature; grade 12 to about 9% HCl; and grade 7 to about 27%."

They go on to say:

"Severe corrosion damage on titanium equipment has resulted from cleaning procedures utilizing pure hydrochloric acid or acid inhibited with amines."

So, even though the electrodes are made of titanium, you are absolutely correct about how corrosive hydrochloric acid is when in contact with them. In this case however, titanium "offers useful corrosion resistance to about 7% hydrochloric acid at room temperature" whatever that means. And, I have no clue as to what 'grade' they are or what the 'rare earth element' might be.

Long ago in the Naval Aviation community, we used to refer to things like this as being "made of Unobtainium" and they worked by the process of "FM (f**king magic)"

LarryM said:

Art,

A number of years ago, I called Raritan about the electrodes. I was told they were "titanium plates coated with a rare earth element."

In the manual "Titanium - Corrosion by Acids" by Timnet, a material manufacturer in Colorado, they state:

"Hydrochloric Acid - Iso-corrosion data illustrate that grade 2 offers useful corrosion resistance to about 7% hydrochloric acid at room temperature; grade 12 to about 9% HCl; and grade 7 to about 27%."

They go on to say:

"Severe corrosion damage on titanium equipment has resulted from cleaning procedures utilizing pure hydrochloric acid or acid inhibited with amines."

So, even though the electrodes are made of titanium, you are absolutely correct about how corrosive hydrochloric acid is when in contact with them. In this case however, titanium "offers useful corrosion resistance to about 7% hydrochloric acid at room temperature" whatever that means. And, I have no clue as to what 'grade' they are or what the 'rare earth element' might be.

Long ago in the Naval Aviation community, we used to refer to things like this as being "made of Unobtainium" and they worked by the process of "FM (f**king magic)"

Click to expand...

they worked by the process of "FM (f**king magic)"