Biofuel vs Biodiesel, sources, similarities, applications

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Moby Nick said:
T
Lots of folks don't want to bother with WVO, however, I enjoy "sticking it" to "Big Oil".
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One look at who makes vegetable oil provides another government or business group to lie awake at night agonizing over.
 
Perhaps, but - - -

using a "waste" product, I'm fully one step separated from that. I make it easy for my restaurant friends; all they have to do is inform environmental authorities where their "waste product" goes. Were they to sell it to the local Biodiesel processor or other general processor serving other industries, they'd have to adapt to how those processors want to handle their oil.
 
Moby Nick
I understand some users of WVO are using lime in the reprocessing. What is that about? Are they trying to knock down ther acidic nature of the used product or trying to slake out something.
 
I add some wvo to my umo when I can get it. It just makes it smell better and it seams to burn cleaner, but that may just be from the smell, kinda like french fries. I have a 750 gallon vacuum tank with a 2 inch suction hose on a trailer that I use to pick up"fuel". I have a small centrifuge that I use to clean anything I get. It easily cleans 300 gallons in a day. After that I slow the flow down to about 100 gpd to get it really clean. It then gets heated and filtered thru a 10 micron Davco dual filter unit. I heat it in a 900 gallon settling tank (useing waste oil in cold/cool weather and the sun in summer). The tank is 12 feet tall and painted black. I have another tank just like it that I use for storage. We have a retail propane co. so tanks are not a problem. These are outdated truck transport tanks, basically junk. The have water drains on the bottom. I have found that emulsified water is the biggest problem with wvo. my centrifuge doesn't do a good enough job of removing it. Heat, gravity and time works really good. Clean and dry fuel is the key to long engine life, no matter what fuel you burn.
 
>It seems to me that a clean fuel system is a happy fuel system so a fuel that also cleans the system is a good thing. The problem is getting from dirty to clean without issues.<

Thats true BUT when 10 -40 years of gunk is loosened at once it can cause fuel line and filter plugups.

ON a new boat with a clean fuel system and all hoses , seals and O rings , injectors and pump internals rated for Bio diesel, all should be fine.
 
Not using WVO in our Albin-25

The Volvo-Penta MD17C would probably run fine on WVO since it's an old low-tech engine. However, at 3/4-gal/hr the Du NORD's fuel usage is so low that it's just not worth the bother of installing a dual fuel system in her. Besides, I'd have to embark on a cruise with all of the WVO required as refueling at some point along the cruise would not be a realistic expectation.

WVO is just for our Dodge and the thousands of miles between us and "Big Water".
 
Interesting posting on Yachtforums by a German fellow who owns a shipping company, and appears pretty knowledgeable about ship and aircraft subjects.

HTM09 said:
This discussion is running in circles and reappears over and over again.

We had started a pilot project on Bio diesel by converting a Mercedes UNIMOG truck in our logistic sector for the use of different types and blends of bio diesel. We did that in cooperation with and permission of Mercedes because it was a brand new truck. After 8 month, the injection pump died. Guess what happened.

Mercedes did not pay for the repair because the producer of that injection pump, Bosch, never cleared that pump for the use with bio diesel. After 6 more month, the engine needed new piston rings, valve seals and cylinder liners, meaning a complete overhaul.

The next tests were about long term storage of bio diesel (when being used for the emergency generator on ships for example). That stuff went bad after about six month, became totally unusable and caused some expensive tank and line cleaning.

We are done with that type of fuel for propulsion and heating. Vegetable oil or alcohol distillate type of fluids belong in the kitchen for cooking or in a bottle as rum or whiskey but not in an engine unless in an emergency situation.

A lot of public services in Germany like fire departments, road services and public transport services converted their diesel trucks, busses and special vehicles for the use of bio diesel, both as blended fuels and up to pure vegetable oil. This was not because of the reduction of costs, it was more for political correctness, for a more green image. Most of those services have come back to normal road diesel after some expensive and painfull repairs.

For sure, we have to look for alternative fuels, both due to shortage of mineral oil and due to ever rising costs. But converting human and animal food into fuel for propelling cars, ships and planes can not the way to go.
The only real alternative and green type of bio fuel are IMO the algea type bio reactor fuels that are produced with the help of sun energy. But I have no idea how much of that fuel can be produced in a mass production scenario. Up to now it seems those reactors only exist in a type of laboratory scale and environment.

Again, my personal favorite way of producing fuel for diesel engines would be converting natural gas into diesel fuel (called GTL diesel). This is the cleanest diesel fuel possible, has no disadvantages, can be produced in greatest quantities, does not require modifications on the engines or fuel lines / tanks and NG will be available for hundreds of years to come.
That will give us the time to invent the Flux Compensator or find the Delitium cristals :D.
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So where is the heavy metal POISONING coming from?

AS the engine wears the metals the engine is constructed from , as well as combustion by products end up in the oil.

A smart operator will change oil after many hours of operating so the oils detergents can lift and carry out as much as can be carried in the oil.

Burning this , in a waste oil burner or in an engine is,

MUCH UNGOOD!
 
And you know this how ? something you read on the internet ? I get zero "heavy metals" in my centrifuge bowl, even after 500 gallons have spun thru it. Define "heavy metals", so I will know what to look for. To me "heavy metal" would be lead, gold, mercury, etc. None of which are in your engine, so how does it get in the oil. What I get is a normal thick sludge, it looks the same as what you would see in the cylinder heads of a small block chevy after 300,000 miles or so. Imagine that. At least 90 percent of the umo that I burn comes from gasoline engines. Modern gas engines are much more efficient than in the past and as such they barely "use" the lubricating oil. It is basically very clean with very little contaminents. And, its been filtered relentlessly. What I remove is any water and anything heavier than oil. I think that would include metal,,, heavy or light,,, as it would be heavier than oil. So no, I am not burning or spewing metal, even if it had been in the oil when I got it, which it was not.
 
Greetings,
Mr. k. Please see attached link. I'm assuming since the elements tested for in Table 1 denote whether or not an oil is "safe" to burn suggests these contaminants might be present in used oil. IF these contaminants are present on a molecular level there's a good possibility they would not be removed by a centrifuge nor be visible even if removed. We're talking ppm's here so not a heck of a lot but toxic all the same.
http://www.pca.state.mn.us/index.php/view-document.html?gid=9070
 
The diesel you burn in your boat may well be more toxic than umo, definitely more toxic than wvo.. It depends on who tests and who interprets, and toward what purpose. There are plenty of advocates in the wvo and umo fuel use side that have statistics and testing to back up there side. If I could get heating oil for 1/2 the price of diesel someone would not like fact that I am using it for motor fuel, regardless that millions of people burn 100s of millions of gallons of it every winter. Sometimes it seems like "if you dont do as I do you are doing wrong". People are funny that way ! I contend that umo/wvo is better for my old diesel engines than the new ultra low sulphur diesel. YMMV
 
Even in Louisiana rules exist for disposing of used oil, RS30:2417. Federally, 34 years ago the Used Oil Recycling of 1980 was passed. Lots of rules and regulations for burning used oil have been in effect for decades. But, burn away and enjoy the feeling of skirting federal and state laws.

BTW, if anyone is interested look up the definition under EPA.gov for what constitutes a used oil Permitted Facility. As one who has sent tens of thousands of gallons of used diesel lube oil to these guys, I can only but tell you they do exist with the dual purpose of keeping it out of the air and water and reducing the amount of required new oil to produce lub oil.
 
sunchaser said:
This practice has been outlawed by the feds and states for about 35 years now. You and your neighbors are subject to heavy metal poisoning. The same applies for spreading used oil on roads for dust control. The famous case that got the Feds riled up involved a Missouri recycler, Russell Bliss, who used his excess used motor oil to keep dust down and provide cheap heating oil to his friends. Major jail time ensued. 3500 gallons you say, wow.
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Interestig. Are you sure about that? Our City uses spent motor oil to heat the DPW garage building.
 
There certainly are rules governing the hauling and disposal of used lubricating oil, but they do not impose an outright ban on using it for heating or blending with diesel fuel.

Follow the links in Post #15 for information provided by the EPA and Oregon - arguably one of the "greenest" states - concerning the use of used lube oil.

And for what it's worth, the Times Beach debacle was created when the waste oil hauler disposed of PCB contaminated oil by illegally blending it with waste lube oil for the (then) perfectly legal purpose of dust control.
 
twistedtree said:
Interestig. Are you sure about that? Our City uses spent motor oil to heat the DPW garage building.
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From my foggy years past, generally States allow use of lub oil generated by the user for use as heating oil. Once above a certain volume a permit is required and subject to emissions monitoring. In reading the OR link supplied by RickB this appears the case.

A decade ago, at a CA gold mine I managed, the re use of genset lub oil from a large power producer was subject to emissions compliance under CARB rules. At this facility we could not filter and mix any used lubrication oil with diesel for on site reuse as it then rendered the diesel fuel non compliant. The genset stacks were subject to monitoring with a very long list of criteria, including heavy metals. It was common to do a genset rebuild based upon non compliance for soot, S, NOX.

No way do I see Kulas or the other hobbyist lub burners getting dinged as the states and Feds focus their efforts on the big guys. There is however the ever encroaching term called voluntary compliance which year by year nudges small emitters to the mandatory compliance side.
 
sunchaser said:
From my foggy years past, generally States allow use of lub oil generated by the user for use as heating oil. Once above a certain volume a permit is required and subject to emissions monitoring. In reading the OR link supplied by RickB this appears the case.

A decade ago, at a CA gold mine I managed, the re use of genset lub oil from a large power producer was subject to emissions compliance under CARB rules. At this facility we could not filter and mix any used lubrication oil with diesel for on site reuse as it then rendered the diesel fuel non compliant. The genset stacks were subject to monitoring with a very long list of criteria, including heavy metals. It was common to do a genset rebuild based upon non compliance for soot, S, NOX.

No way do I see Kulas or the other hobbyist lub burners getting dinged as the states and Feds focus their efforts on the big guys. There is however the ever encroaching term called voluntary compliance which year by year nudges small emitters to the mandatory compliance side.
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The New Jersey company I used to work for heated the maintenance shop with used oil as well as salvaged fuel oil etc from underground tanks they removed as an environmental services business. (as an aside...that boss was the largest subcontractor to the NRC on the Gulf of Mexico BP oil spill )

Several years after installing the used oil heater he somehow got a nastygram from the NJ Dept of Environmental Protection for not having a permit. Things were worked out and he got one...he already had the permits for trucking and generating the stuff offsite.

There isn't much that goes into running one...I was often the guy to had to care for and feed it...no monitoring of the output and the unit was just some off the shelf one from Northern Tools if I remember correctly. Amazing what that thing burned even though very lax storage and filtering did require feed system cleaning.
 
Diesel Fuel from Air & Water

Audi just created diesel fuel from air and water

Audi just created diesel fuel from air and water

The base fuel is referred to as "blue crude," and begins by taking electricity from renewable sources like wind, solar or hydropower and using it to produce hydrogen from water via reversible electrolysis. The hydrogen is then mixed with CO2 that has been converted into CO in two chemical processes and the resulting reactions produce a liquid made from long-chain hydrocarbons – this is blue crude, which is then refined to create the end product, the synthetic e-diesel.

Audi says that the carbon dioxide used in the process is currently supplied by a biogas facility but, further adding to the green impacts of the process, some of the CO2 is captured directly from the ambient air, taking the greenhouse gas out of the atmosphere.

Sunfire claims that analysis shows the properties of the synthetic diesel are superior to fossil fuel, and that its lack of sulphur and fossil-based oil makes it more environmentally friendly. The overall energy efficiency of the fuel creation process using renewable power is around 70 percent, according to Audi........
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I used to fill up with biodiesel-15 as it is about 6% cheaper. But then realised that we were burning 10% more per hour.
 
Sydney just banned cruise ships overnighting(day berthing, more usual, is ok)at the poorly planned White Bay cruise ship berth area, until low sulfur fuel is mandated. Main issue: White Bay lacks shorepower to run a cruise ship, while the Overseas Passenger Terminal, located east of the S H Bridge has it.
How much is this synthetic diesel per liter?
Much biodiesel here comes from used cooking oil, watch for clouds of seagulls following the "fish and chips" aroma.
 
bobsyiruncle said:
One of the interesting questions is what tax rate should apply if it is recycled and the tax has already been paid the first time.
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You already know the answer to THAT question, the highest rate the politicos can get past the voters. (and it will be for "the children" of course).

Marty................
 
"I used to fill up with biodiesel-15 as it is about 6% cheaper. But then realised that we were burning 10% more per hour."

True but BIO is great gunk stripper and will loosen any garbage in a fuel tank.

The poor fuel burn might be considered an investment for a boater wishing to go offshore.

A clean fuel system is a start for clean fuel.
 
Am I going to have phase separation issues with it like the ethanol gas has?
 
I just watched a very interesting presentation on these fuels on a PBS NOVA science presentation

NOVA | Algae Fuel


PS: I also remember reading about a year ago that the airlines were studying the use of biofuels (algae fuels) and figured they could operate the entire world's fleet of commercial aircraft on a production facility about the size of the rather small country of Belgium
 
And at only $257 per liter, I'll be waiting at the gas station for this next government boondoggle.

Please, Do the math!
 
Drill Baby, Drill!!!:D
 

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