Fuel Usage

My knot meter is calibrated in knots (surprise) and the charts I learned Nav on in nm. I believe that having gone through the pain of converting to metric it was easier to adapt to knots/mm.

WesK said:

Any discussion of "Miles Per Gallon", be it nautical miles or statute miles, is meaningless unless you're boating on a pond with no wind. Once you leave that pond or the wind kicks up, you have current and wind to deal with. Think of driving a car but the road is moving as well as the car. Going with the current, you use less fuel to go a given distance (over ground). Going against the current, you use more fuel to go the same distance. And of course your boat has no odometer so you have no way of knowing exactly how far you travelled.

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Or if you have no frame of reference....averages are used all the time for estimation...so to estimate my next trip I can use my last trip's averages..including my average NMPG...The more miles under your belt...the more that average becomes significant as an overall predictor, even though it isn't as accurate for shorter trips.

Any single measurement is just as useless without other facors involved. A prime example that many tout as the holy grail such as fuel burn...still have to consider how the boat is performing in environmentals to know how many hours that fuel burn will occur.

So if you can figure out how to do it and how it fits into your planning tool bag....it's not meaningless....it's only that to those that chose not to use it or don't have a frame of reference to use it.

I'll bet Neil Armstrong looking down at earth from the moon said..."ya know...I'll bet if those stupid NASA engineers were using metric......think of how much sooner we could have gotten here"

And for the record.... I never looked down at anyone using statute for boating...just not something I was used to...

Hi Eric,
It can be, but being caught in the change with "standard instruments" and some charts only available metric, others only standard, trolling lines marked in fathoms it was a gong show.
Brokerages are still listing boats using feet.
Ahwell, just have to get use to it. Put it all into "a back locker", getting back onto a boat will be worth it!!!
Best Ted

Some of the ranting against statute miles is amazing. The tow boats pushing barges on the GIWW in Louisanna call their position by the statute mile on the charts. So I guess the guys running plastic boats will tell these professionals pushing the barges they are stupid. I certainly would not do that in their world.

bikeandboat said:

Some of the ranting against statute miles is amazing. The tow boats pushing barges on the GIWW in Louisanna call their position by the statute mile on the charts. So I guess the guys running plastic boats will tell these professionals pushing the barges they are stupid. I certainly would not do that in their world.

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They do that so all the yachties can check their guide books and chartbooks to know where the call is coming from and get out of their way....

bikeandboat said:

Some of the ranting against statute miles is amazing. The tow boats pushing barges on the GIWW in Louisanna call their position by the statute mile on the charts. So I guess the guys running plastic boats will tell these professionals pushing the barges they are stupid. I certainly would not do that in their world.

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For ICW cruisers all mile marks, bridges, and nav aids are marked in statute miles. Depth in feet. When off shore depth is fathoms and charts in nautical miles. Even the shallows in the Bahamas are marked in fathoms and meters.

For ICW and inland waters all that is needed is statute miles. Nothing magical in a nautical mile unless offshore.

Most of the "yachties" aint listening, there on 16.

Moonstruck said:

For ICW and inland waters all that is needed is statute miles. Nothing magical in a nautical mile unless offshore.

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St. Lawrence River? Great Lakes? Uh-uh.

kulas44 said:

Most of the "yachties" aint listening, there on 16.

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Yea most of us always listen to 16 underway.

and ch13 where I'm from if you care about getting calls from commercial traffic.

You should monitor 16. Everything else is on a different channell. on the lower Miss its 67 in the river, 13 in the passes. 16 will not get a response, except from the USCG to tell you to use a different channell.

jungpeter said:

Hi Arch,

With all due respect, fuel usage in recreational power boating such as discussed on this forum ad-nasuem (sp?) DOESN'T MATTER. If you have sufficient fuel aboard to reach your next fuel stop, THAT'S ALL THAT COUNTS. All other issues, particularly related to cost, are lost in the noise for the vast majority of us. If one needs to be concerned with the cost of fuel during your time on the water, you're in the wrong hobby. Fixed costs (depreciation, moorage, insurance, taxes, etc.), and other variable costs of boat ownership (maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc.) absolutely SWAMP fuel issues.



Pete

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Back home on Lake Michigan I know several boats who have cut down their boating because of fuel costs, and two specifically who have sold their boats while complaining about the fuel costs. $450 for round trip Michigan City to Chicago (34 miles each way) and $860 for a one way trip Michigan City to Leland MI (almost 300 miles) were the death knell for two boat I know of. In both cases there were larger expenses but the discretionary fuel uses were the problem.

I guess most boaters I know, who include fuel efficiency as a crucial criterion in making their choice, are in the wrong hobby. I must let them know asap.

manyboats said:

Ted the metric system is better and the sooner we get there the better.

We're WAY BEHIND in the US.

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Eric, way back in the last century how long did it take you in METRIC TERMS to get from Seattle to Prince Rupert using your one oar?

There is a common misconception that the metric system is used for all things technical. Not so. What indeed is the metric system other than a way to easily add or subtract zeros when making a government budget.

For weights, volumes and distances the metric system works fine most but not all of the time. For those of us building big things, specific knowledge is required for terms like gauge, bore, tons, tonnes, long tons, short tons, inches, feet, miles, kilopascals, psi, thread size, angstrom, wave length, lightyears etc or employment opportunities will dwindle.

But most important for mariners, pilots and parents of teenagers is the measurement of time. How does metric get infused into minutes, seconds, days, weeks, months or years or light years? It doesn't. The operating manuals for a sextant are an intersting non metric read. Try using one in metric.

Well, I guess I'll have my pint of beer now followed by a shot of whisky as I look for the quarter moon rising over the 49th (or so) parallel.

Greetings,

A few closing thoughts:

For me cruising isn't a hobby, it is the way I live. I retired last year and am thankful every day that I can live this life.

I match my use of statute miles or nautical miles to the charts and common useage for the area I am cruising. For instance, when I leave Key West next month I will be using statute miles until I get to Miami and turn to starboard for Bimini. Once I make the turn for Bahamas leg I will be using knots. Just easier for me.

For me as a retired boater on what amounts to a fixed income, fuel cost needs to be figured into the equation. The difference between an express cruiser and a Trawler is substantial. Especially if expected useage is 6,000 (statute miles per year.

Knowing burn rate at a given RPM in GPH allows me to compute estimated range remaining. This becomes pretty important when going into the Georgian Bay/North Channel where fuel isn't always readily available and a bit on the expensive side. Also pretty important headed to the Exumas, etc.

Thanks for all the discussion,

Arch

I acknowledge the argument that fuel costs are not the most significant expenses of boating. My general comment is that with our normal run of 60 miles in a day, we can do it in 9 and 1/2 hours or we can do it in 8 hours. The difference is 9 gallons of diesel. At the prices we pay here in the Caribbean, approximately $5 to $6 US per gallon, the 9 gallons is enough to pay for dinner out.

Being retired, this is an easy trade off to make.

Bay Pelican said:

I acknowledge the argument that fuel costs are not the most significant expenses of boating. My general comment is that with our normal run of 60 miles in a day, we can do it in 9 and 1/2 hours or we can do it in 8 hours. The difference is 9 gallons of diesel. At the prices we pay here in the Caribbean, approximately $5 to $6 US per gallon, the 9 gallons is enough to pay for dinner out.

Being retired, this is an easy trade off to make.

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...........

Dollar a mile

Psneeld
I used to think I was one of the few people who viewed my costs as a dollar a mile so I was glad to see you come out with it.
As to whether or not it is a serious cost, I suppose that is somewhat subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder .
For me, my summer bar bill is pretty close to my fuel bill. Those are the only two discretionary items I have so which one should I try and economize on next year?
Maybe neither!

bobsyiruncle said:

Psneeld
I used to think I was one of the few people who viewed my costs as a dollar a mile so I was glad to see you come out with it.
As to whether or not it is a serious cost, I suppose that is somewhat subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder .
For me, my summer bar bill is pretty close to my fuel bill. Those are the only two discretionary items I have so which one should I try and economize on next year?
Maybe neither!

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Buy The Bar! Your bill on that side of enjoyment would be greatly reduced and you could make enough $$$ from the bar to pay for boat fuel!! Talk about Win/Win!! Geeeezz

bobsyiruncle said:

Psneeld
I used to think I was one of the few people who viewed my costs as a dollar a mile so I was glad to see you come out with it.
As to whether or not it is a serious cost, I suppose that is somewhat subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder .
For me, my summer bar bill is pretty close to my fuel bill. Those are the only two discretionary items I have so which one should I try and economize on next year?
Maybe neither!

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For me it just turned out to be about $1/NM at expected fuel costs...which in my case is perfect to quick in the head budgeting.

I fully understand people that could care less about fuel burn...at times in my life...me too..didn't care about multiple mortgages with no renters either..big deal (for awhile at least). But major things can happen in a lifetime of ups and downs.

I hope for them they never have to worry about fuel costs..good for them..but some of us do.

The good new is I cruise for 4 months every year and in 5 or so more...it just may be all year....still watching fuel costs though..hopefully but they will only go up a little unless the cost of fuel goes up too.

psneeld said:

For me it just turned out to be about $1/NM at expected fuel costs...which in my case is perfect to quick in the head budgeting.

I fully understand people that could care less about fuel burn...at times in my life...me too..didn't care about multiple mortgages with no renters either..big deal (for awhile at least). But major things can happen in a lifetime of ups and downs.

I hope for them they never have to worry about fuel costs..good for them..but some of us do.

The good new is I cruise for 4 months every year and in 5 or so more...it just may be all year....still watching fuel costs though..hopefully but they will only go up a little unless the cost of fuel goes up too.

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Crude oil derived fuel costs (diesel/gas/jet/bunker/kero) across the board will either go up or go down... but... they will not stay proportionately the same.

1. Reasons for Cost Up Side:
a. Inflation
b. Wars
c. Reduced new crude oil supply finds
d. Increased costs for deeper drilling / excavating, i.e. shales / refining
e. Cause the BIG Dino Boys have us by the balls and simply want to raise prices!

2. Reasons for Cost Down Side:
a. New feedstock energy sources get successfully developed that reduce needs for crude oil refining by having other means of producing drop-in fungible diesel and gasoline fuels. There are several types of plans on the drawing boards regarding this, and, if one or more becomes economically feasible, on a global scale, then a severe diesel and gasoline price war may ensue... thusly reduced fuel costs - at least for a while!
b. Poorer general economic conditions that make the BIG Boys lower fuel prices in attempt to keep volume up.

But, as I intone above - Da $$$ price for fuels we boaters require just ain't ta gonna stay same as today. And, prices could swing wildly in one direction or the other! Let's pray “2 a.” becomes our reality!

Happy Power Boating Daze! - Art

or pressures in both directions could keep fuel right where it is plus/minus a dime or two...but please...take this discussion to where ever other nonsensical debates are in this website

if anyone even had a decent hint...that person could make Bill Gates look destitute.

but please...take this discussion to where ever other nonsensical debates are in this website...

I'll be glad to delete this post if we don't debate world crap in these threads...

psneeld said:

or pressures in both directions could keep fuel right where it is plus/minus a dime or two...

if anyone even had a decent hint...that person could make Bill gates look destitute.

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There are several different hints... but to chose one and bet the farm...

Art said:

Crude oil derived fuel costs (diesel/gas/jet/bunker/kero) across the board will either go up or go down... but... they will not stay proportionately the same.

1. Reasons for Cost Up Side:
a. Inflation
b. Wars
c. Reduced new crude oil supply finds
d. Increased costs for deeper drilling / excavating, i.e. shales / refining
e. Cause the BIG Dino Boys have us by the balls and simply want to raise prices!

2. Reasons for Cost Down Side:
a. New feedstock energy sources get successfully developed that reduce needs for crude oil refining by having other means of producing drop-in fungible diesel and gasoline fuels. There are several types of plans on the drawing boards regarding this, and, if one or more becomes economically feasible, on a global scale, then a severe diesel and gasoline price war may ensue... thusly reduced fuel costs - at least for a while!
b. Poorer general economic conditions that make the BIG Boys lower fuel prices in attempt to keep volume up.

But, as I intone above - Da $$$ price for fuels we boaters require just ain't ta gonna stay same as today. And, prices could swing wildly in one direction or the other! Let's pray “2 a.” becomes our reality!

Happy Power Boating Daze! - Art

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Oh Art you forgot (TAX) Brother on the cost going up!!! What, in most cases it's about .60 per gal if not more? More than likely more!

Good post

Happy cruising

H. Foster

hfoster said:

Oh Art you forgot (TAX) Brother on the cost going up!!! What, in most cases it's about .60 per gal if not more? More than likely more!

Good post

Happy cruising

H. Foster

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Henry - Correcto' Peal!!! How could I have ever forgotten our Uncle!!