Med Moor--heavy weather at NIGHT

You may remember a video we showed you last year of a high-risk docking maneuver, called Mediterranean mooring, performed by a Ro/Ro passenger ferry at the Greek island of Kimolos in March 2013.
The video was amazing to watch and not just because it looked extremely dangerous, but also because of the awe-inspiring ship handling skills of the captain and crew. In fact, the captain, Captain Isidoros Lignos, has since gained quite the reputation for his ability to perform the Med mooring maneuver to disembark passengers and supplies in heavy seas.
With that in mind, here’s another video of the same ship, the Adamantios Korais, again under the command of Captain Lignos, performing a similar maneuver under similar conditions at the Aegean Sea port of Sikinos Island, Greece this past Saturday.
Now before you call this crazy, just remember that without the supplies and people brought by these ferries, many of the small Aegean Sea islands would literally be cut off from the rest of the world, and the Greeks aren’t going to a little heavy weather let that happen.

gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News | WATCH: (Another) Heavy Seas Med Moor in Greece

Would love to be an observer at the "risk management meeting" where these tapes are reviewed and the captains given permission to keep doing it.

I understand the consequences...but one loss may equal paying for other means of getting people, cars, supplies to these islands...maybe not...that's what I would love to hear.

psneeld said:

Would love to be an observer at the "risk management meeting" where these tapes are reviewed and the captains given permission to keep doing it.

I understand the consequences...but one loss may equal paying for other means of getting people, cars, supplies to these islands...maybe not...that's what I would love to hear.

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The Greek system has a little different view of liability. In many cases you are on your own as far as accepting risk. Many times they don't even have hand rails at steep drop offs. You are just not supposed to go near it.

Moonstruck said:

The Greek system has a little different view of liability. In many cases you are on your own as far as accepting risk. Many times they don't even have hand rails at steep drop offs. You are just not supposed to go near it.

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I don't think I'm talking liability entirely like we think about it...maybe I am an am just ignorant of specifics or terminology...

I'm sure if the Capt screwed the pooch...and the ferry went someplace bad enough to hole and roll....loss of life and cargo would certainly affect something...(if not, boy do we need tort reform even worse than I thought).

Even in the states you can tell some states and towns worry a lot less than others...some places I've just been in FL, such as St Augustine...sea walls without railings, reflective markers, yellow paint...etc...that ain't a happenin' where I come from in New Jersey (unfortunately as safety can get ridiculous and ruin great scenery or historic objects).

I would say that a total wipe out would be a different situation. I was speaking of embarking and leaving the ferry by the passengers. I did help a Greek captain one time that was using a spring line to move a 400' ship to the dock. He nearly cut a flat bed truck in two with the spring line. That got me invited to cocktails and dinner with the captain. I was at the rail directly above the wing bridge, and saw what was happening.

That's kinda my point...at what point does a company reign in it's "risks"...as a senior USCG officer, I had to say yea or nay to going or sending flight crews into stuff well beyond normal training limits..but that was a USCG norm...kinda like what is done in combat vs training for the rest of the military. Loss of helo and crew was NEVER acceptable but always a possibility...then again normal, daylight water training was always a potential total loss.

I discuss and sometimes heatedly argue with my civilian bosses about risk management and sometimes win, sometimes lose. Fortunately the only accident I was witness to but not directly involved with was loading something on a barge where equipment was lost and someone was hurt. That one turned into a lawsuit and I'm sure it hurt profits for a long time.

Loss of an entire ferry, cargo and some pax I think would make a dent in many companies. Then again the Exxon Valdez and the loss of the BP rig were only petty cash occurrences so maybe I'm just too far out of touch with business models.

I know I don't have all the answers...that's why I would love to sit in on a meeting ...if they even ever have one.

Thanks, Charles, for posting this. There's so much speculation that can be heaped upon the decisions to do things like this, but "service" once had a different meaning here in the US too. Now, if such an example of seamanship took place here in the US, the lawyers would be lined up to sue for reckless endangerment if it docked, and breach of contracts if it didn't. On top of that would be the years of therapeutic treatment for the trauma suffered by the employees (or perhaps passengers) who drove the cars on and off the ship.

Regardless, this is an amazing video and I have nothing but admiration for the awesome ability of this Captain and Crew. I only hope I could learn to manage my own tiny ship as well.

healhustler said:

Thanks, Charles, for posting this. There's so much speculation that can be heaped upon the decisions to do things like this, but "service" once had a different meaning here in the US too. Now, if such an example of seamanship took place here in the US, the lawyers would be lined up to sue for reckless endangerment if it docked, and breach of contracts if it didn't. On top of that would be the years of therapeutic treatment for the trauma suffered by the employees (or perhaps passengers) who drove the cars on and off the ship.

Regardless, this is an amazing video and I have nothing but admiration for the awesome ability of this Captain and Crew. I only hope I could learn to manage my own tiny ship as well.

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my admiration for the capt is genuine....I would love to know if there is any issues about doing risky docking like this and what he and his supporters have to offer to support his side of things...

for all I know he is doing it under protest in fear of his job and the company has it's head up its butt..or it could be a great company with a great captain and the overall thoughts are this type mooring is really a piece of cake and nothing to worry about....either way I'd love to hear the discussion and could care less about the liability specifics because that's not really part of operational risk management beyond the it existes and to varying degrees which are just pieces of the puzzle factored in.

charles said:

...a high-risk docking maneuver, called Mediterranean mooring,http://gcaptain.com/heavy-seas-med-...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Gcaptain+(gCaptain.com)

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Maybe I'm nit-picking, but they make it sound like Med-mooring is inherently high-risk. It can be high-risk when the conditions are bad (like in the video), but under ordinary conditions it is no more high-risk than an other docking maneuver. People do it every day of the year, all over the Mediterranean. Just not usually in those kind of conditions.

That ferry is just about like our Alaskan State ferries but I've never seen anything like that in Alaska.

I probably never would have worked on the ferries either if they did stuff like that.

But then if you don't understand what's really going on and what it takes to do something safely it can look very scary. You go down the highway at 70mph in your car and routinely pass by other cars going 70mph so you're passing each other at 140mph. And one car may very likely have a mother w 2 kids in the car texting w no concern about safety. She may do that 100's of times a day .. regularly.

So the ferry and her crew may not have been doing something that scary at all. But it looks scary and reckless.

denverd0n said:

Maybe I'm nit-picking, but they make it sound like Med-mooring is inherently high-risk.

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Who is making that claim? Med mooring is nothing more than a stern tie docking. It is done thousands of times a day all over the world without much angst or discussion.

What makes those videos interesting is the weather and the exhibition of ship-handling skills. The drama is in the eyes of the viewer.

Risk management is not nearly as important for planning things when they always go right...it's about when something goes wrong.

Lot's of things we do aren't scary because we practice them all the time (often just by doing)....what separates the pros from everyone else is what they do when something goes wrong.

To me with my very limited, and now very rusty shiphandling skills (up to 399 foot icebreakers), most of these moderate/heavy weather med moorings are slightly risky till something goes wrong. I really can't tell what might happen next. I don't know how well the ferries actually handle single engine (by looking at the maneuvering I'm guessing they are twins), whether there is any thruster capability, how is the ground tackle system set up for this kind of use, etc...etc...that's why I would love to be the fly on the wall to listen and learn.

RickB said:

Who is making that claim? Med mooring is nothing more than a stern tie docking. It is done thousands of times a day all over the world without much angst or discussion.

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Rick

I agree with your statement, except as it applies to me. The first time I med moored Bay Pelican I had enough angst to float the boat.

And for the guys tightening the ropes.....
It is team working !!!

Team work is right!! I've only had to stern tie twice like that and even with perfect conditions, it was an experience coordinating the activity of the crew.

My hats off to those two captains and crew!!! (And the truck and trailer driver crossing that pitching ramp!!)

psneeld said:

I don't know how well the ferries actually handle single engine (by looking at the maneuvering I'm guessing they are twins.

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Both ferries shown are twin engined.

Moonstruck said:

I did help a Greek captain one time that was using a spring line to move a 400' ship to the dock. He nearly cut a flat bed truck in two with the spring line. That got me invited to cocktails and dinner with the captain. I was at the rail directly above the wing bridge, and saw what was happening.

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C'mon Don. Tell us "the rest of the story".

DH I love your new avatar!

dwhatty said:

C'mon Don. Tell us "the rest of the story".

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Well, I will tell the story illustrated with pictures, but this thread is not the place. I will send you a PM.

Moonstruck said:

The Greek system has a little different view of liability. In many cases you are on your own as far as accepting risk. Many times they don't even have hand rails at steep drop offs. You are just not supposed to go near it.

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I think it is about liability and I think this off is ego ate oohs enough to remember that the whole liability thing took off in the 80's. In the 50s we were still a country that got things done. Now, it's all cya.

We put fancy names on it, risk management, etc, but the reality is we don't train like we're going to fight anymore and yes, we have far less training accidents, but no one wants to admit that we also have far less capability.
Yes, there is an answer, now if you buy this billion dollar airplane, it can do so much more than the $20m plane.
The usaf took that pill over 20 years ago.

I'm sorry. I digress. It's been an interesting fat, but can't post it from my computer till the weekend.

Later

A couple of observations:

Most countries of the world do not have the LIABILITY system that we have.
Here people depend on the government, all levels, to "protect" them from their own foibles. Not so elsewhere.

These mariners are trained to do their job and do it. Period. If members of this list should take their boats to the Med. they would learn this method of docking quickly!

Do note that the EYE of the docking lines are placed on the QUAY and not on the ship. The captain maintains COMPLETE CONTROL of the operation and is not dependent on some warm body on the quay.

Wxx3 said:

I think it is about liability and I think this off is ego ate oohs enough to remember that the whole liability thing took off in the 80's. In the 50s we were still a country that got things done. Now, it's all cya.

We put fancy names on it, risk management, etc, but the reality is we don't train like we're going to fight anymore and yes, we have far less training accidents, but no one wants to admit that we also have far less capability.
Yes, there is an answer, now if you buy this billion dollar airplane, it can do so much more than the $20m plane.
The usaf took that pill over 20 years ago.

I'm sorry. I digress. It's been an interesting fat, but can't post it from my computer till the weekend.

Later

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Actually...Operational Risk Management, when it was first written back in the late 90's for DoD, the main thrust of it was to reverse the course of getting soft and stupid in the name of safety and to reverse the waste of bad commanders with overly large egos....

It was developed to use a more methodical approach to accomplishing the mission despite risks by minimizing them...not cancelling the mission because of risks or requiring safeguards when the go order was issued but the knucklehead in charge was using ego instead of brains to run things.

As to the rest of the rant...some yes and some no...that debate could definitely go on forever and whatever operational risk management evolved into I have no idea...but in it's purest form...it was the best tool the USCG and probably the rest of the military ever had to go in the right direction.

When I watched that video, there was a link to another one that was pretty cool. Cut a 616 ft cruise ship in half and weld in a 200 foot prefab section in the middle, and voila, an 800+ cruise ship!

gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News | Time Lapse Video: Cruise Ship Cut in Half, Stretched

charles said:

A couple of observations:

Do note that the EYE of the docking lines are placed on the QUAY and not on the ship.

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All ships do that, it is not peculiar to the operation on the video. The line is warped around a winch drum on the ship so the deck crew can control the length and tension. The lines are kept on the drum, even after finished with engines or all fast because they are commonly a constant-tension winch which automatically compensates for tide and loading.

I know if I were one of the deckhands, I'd be wearing a PFD with those kinds of seas. Standing near the edge when one of those waves hits and you could be lost in the darkness.