AC/Heat

Does anyone know anything about the Webasto brand AC and Heat. Reliability etc.
My Cruise Air went south and I need a new system before the heat of the summer. here in Michigan that could be a while with all the Clippers and snow we have this year.

No, but I can highly recommend these guys:
Home - Mermaid Manfucturing - Home of Mermaid Marine Air Conditioning & Medi-Kool Climate Controlled Drug Cabinets

I'm buying another one in the spring to replace an old Lunaire that crapped out last fall. 5 year warranty and not nearly as expensive as some of the better known brands.

I think I may try Webasto ...they have incredible pricing through some dealers and they are advertising some new advancements...haven't heard good or bad about them...sometimes that's good as the complaints seem to get more attention than praise on the internet.

One of our Marine Air crapped out also and just got it replaced with another that's a newer style. It's QUIET! I mean practically silent comrade to the old unit. So my vote goes for Marine Air.


Edit: for some reason I thought they were called Max air, there're actually called Marine Air.

Webasto advertises the same quiet compressors (maybe more quiet than the others) but the real noisy section of any AC unit is how you manage the discharge air.

Flagship Marine - unit installed in 1984. Three $20.00 relays later still going strong. Excellent customer service.

A little different than the others as while the a/c side is reverse cycle, the heat side is straight electric furnace.

The theory on the air discharge management is interesting. Can you tell me more?
I would fix the old AC by replacing the compressor, but the cost of the compressor is close to what an entire new AC/Heat cost's
Thanks
Peter

Keith said:

No, but I can highly recommend these guys:
Home - Mermaid Manfucturing - Home of Mermaid Marine Air Conditioning & Medi-Kool Climate Controlled Drug Cabinets

I'm buying another one in the spring to replace an old Lunaire that crapped out last fall. 5 year warranty and not nearly as expensive as some of the better known brands.

Click to expand...

+1

Bought one of their units for my charter boat 4 years ago. It runs off a square wave inverter 20% of the time without a complaint. Will likely be replacing some or all of the 3 units in my new boat with these this summer.

To reduce the noise, the ac unit needs to be in a somewhat sound proof encloser with return and discharge air piped to the unit. While bends reduce air flow, they also reduce noise output. Also, while smooth bore pvc pipe reduces flow resistance, hard plastics carry sound better. Duct hose carries much less sound (very little noice comes out of your home central air registers).

Installing the water pump as far away as possible, also reduces noise.

Ted

I have two if these, I can't say enough good about them. American made right here in Florida by a company that makes A/C and refrigeration units for the military. Best units on the market, no circuit boards, uses home A/C relays and they make there own coils and housings.

They are cheaper then imported units.

I went with straight cool and heat strips, same Amp draw and I can have heat without running sea pumps even on the hard I have heat.




  Ocean Breeze AC

Isn't the BTU output on heat strip only units significantly less than on reverse cycle (even though the amps stay relatively the same)?

I thought that was the whole reason for reverse cycle....assuming you need that much heat and don't mind the cooling water flow through the boat unattended..

On my boat 3 units on electric heat strip would only give me about 15K BTU where the same reverse cycle would be up around 30K BTU.

REVERSE cycle only works in warmish water.

Once the water (or air ) is down to 40F or so , most will stop operating and the heating element is all there is.

The new (not yet built for boats) Mini Split system does work in Euro cold and is claimed to be 400% to 500% better at heating than just a resistance wire.

I am told the installation is critical to the best heating results.

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FF is correct you loose efficiency as the water gets colder (not a big problem here) so you really need to know at what water temp. the BTU figure is calculated.

Think of the unit as a large ducted space heater, it puts out a set amount of heat regardless of water temp. I like not having to have pumps running and valves open to heat the boat and can think of a time being on the hard and still having heat as a good thing.

As to the question of will heat strips produce enough heat, that depends on many factors, on my boat in my climate there is more then enough. You don't see many heat pumps in Alaska.

I think logically and when I bought my AC reverse cycle unit I saw there were manufacturers all over the US. Then I asked myself, where do they use AC the most?? It isn't Alaska. I searched the FL manufacturers and looked for the most efficient unit on the market. I saw 16,000 BTU with 1800 watts to 19,000 BTU and 1200 watts. All 120VAC.

I went with Arctic Marine Air and I have only had one issue which was a brown out blew my compressor. I looked locally and here they wanted as much as a new unit to replace the compressor. I looked at the actual compressor cost and here it was under 175.00 so I knew my local shops were just trying to rip me off.

I called Arctic Marine Air and they replaced my compressor, shipping both ways and serviced it at less than half of my best quote here.

Since then I've referred about seven units to them. They are a mom and pop and make a quiet most efficient unit I've seen. If I remember Michelle is the owner.

They are great people to deal with.

I went with straight cool and heat strips, same Amp draw and I can have heat without running sea pumps even on the hard I have heat.

Could you tell me a bit more about the "heat strips". That is new to me.

Since the brown out, I bought a voltage protector and installed it. It was under 30.00 and works perfect. It hard wires just before the plug in and with a spike or drop shuts off, waits two minutes and checks voltage before turning the AC back on.

We get spikes and dips here occasionally because now the ships can't run generators while docked. This has cleaned up the air some, but caused other issues.

tried to find the site for Arctic Marine Air but had no luck. Could you send me a link to their place.
thanks
Peter

sunvale1 said:

I went with straight cool and heat strips, same Amp draw and I can have heat without running sea pumps even on the hard I have heat.

Could you tell me a bit more about the "heat strips". That is new to me.

Click to expand...

Like most heat pumps...they either have supplemental or full heat strips near their blowers..... as if they installed a space heater in the AC unit.

While the heat strips do have their advantages...a 6000btu A/c unit may be able to put out around 5000btu's of heat with heat strips...but the circuit may limit the heat strips to that 5000btus.

If you have a 20,000 btu A/c in reverse cycle...you can get 22,000 btus out of it.

The moral of the story is...where will you cruise in terms of outside and water temp...plus whether or not you want flexibility while floating and can live with space heaters while on the hard.

Electric heat is expensive some places and if the "heat strip" option won't meet your heating needs...the reverse cycle setup just may...the best source of heat in terms of flexibility and use costs is a diesel heater...just the initial outlay can be staggering if you don't absolutely have no other choice.

One thing that you may want to take into consideration that is not noted on the Webasto Tech specs is what refrigerant they use. R22 has ceased manufacture in Canada and possibly other countries and will be totally forbidden by 2020 but some products are still sold containing it. The MarineAire unit also made in Florida uses one of the new gases R410A, I believe, and good pricing as well. Just a consideration.

sunvale1 said:

tried to find the site for Arctic Marine Air but had no luck. Could you send me a link to their place.
thanks
Peter

Click to expand...

Arctic Air Systems Heating and Air Conditioning

I found that site, but it has no links to Marine AC units unless I totally overlooked that

dimer2 said:

Arctic Air Systems Heating and Air Conditioning

Click to expand...

This is an HVAC contractor in Pinellas county Florida they do not manufacture anything.


"Since 1990, Arctic Air Systems has been successfully helping Pinellas County home and business owners install, maintain, and service their HVAC equipment."

yep, sorry guys, thats a link to nowhere. Trying to edit without success

I installed two Mermaid units in my boat shortly after I built it. A 12kbtu in pilothouse, a 6k shared in fwd cabins. They have worked well for 7yrs/1800hrs travel/11,000miles. They have reverse cycle heat, and with water temp in the 40's they can freeze up. Usually the freeze up occurs right after startup, so if it makes it through the first hour, all ok. A short run in ac mode melts the ice block, still a bit of PITA. Water temps 50 up, no problems with freeze up at all. Thermostats are std house type, so that is a plus.

No repairs have been needed, except one thermostat pooped. Quiet, too. The 6k is under the bunk I sleep in. It does not wake me up.

Boat also has a bus heater connected to main engine coolant circuit, that takes care of heat when under way.

I also keep two 1500 watt cube heaters on the boat. If it is real cold outside (20F) I run one in each cabin. Toasty. The 6k is undersized for those temps.

I've done a lot of winter running, and the above combo really works.

Peter, Sorry so long in getting back. I searched as well and have Michelle's phone number in my cell. I called it and it's no longer in service. There is another highly efficient unit made in FL as well. I owned one of these as well.

Here is the link.
King Air

The King Air unit is still running great and it was bought in 1994. It still has the original compressor too.

I always black flush my units. Where the overboard through hull is I made a hose fitting for it and run fresh water back through the unit and sea strainer. It keeps silt and crud from building up inside the condenser which will lead to high head pressure on the compressor and help blow it.

So I'm told.

Thanks for this thread! Timing is perfect. My aft unit (16,000 btu) is kaput. The tech who came out two weeks ago wanted $3,600 to replace it. The forward unit (10,000 btu) is old enough that parts are no longer available but it still runs.

It looks like I can get replacement units for both for about what I was quoted for one. Of course that means DYI but the replacement seems fairly straight forward. The Kingair says that it comes pre charged.

So what is the collective wisdom on installing a replacement myself? Doable?

Thanks,
Arch

Arch said:

Thanks for this thread! Timing is perfect. My aft unit (16,000 btu) is kaput. The tech who came out two weeks ago wanted $3,600 to replace it. The forward unit (10,000 btu) is old enough that parts are no longer available but it still runs.

It looks like I can get replacement units for both for about what I was quoted for one. Of course that means DYI but the replacement seems fairly straight forward. The Kingair says that it comes pre charged.

So what is the collective wisdom on installing a replacement myself? Doable?

Thanks,
Arch

Click to expand...

Shouldn't be a problem with very basic DIY skills

So what is the collective wisdom on installing a replacement myself? Doable?

No sweat , just never ever >test< the fittings that hold in the charge to see if anything is there!!!

Just put it in and make the last connections and enjoy.

Depending on the access it can be a very easy job.

I received a bit over 30 bucks from the salvage yard when I scrapped the old units. Yes they recycled the refrigerant, that's the reason I scrapped them rather then tossing them in a dumpster, please do the same.

I took mine out and it did not take more than 45 min. The replacement unit should not take that much more to install.
I have one that has a seized compressor but the rest is OK. Now what to do with it?