Vacuflush Conversion

Under pressure from the Admiral....I am planning to convert the existing electric jabsco head to a vacuflush system using the Vacuflush VG4 vacuum generator and the existing 40 gallon holding tank. I will also need to change the head. Last year I removed all the sanitation hoses due to permeation and replaced with PVC which has been a huge success but I wonder if anyone could advise me whether it is preferable to locate the VG4 close to the head or is it more efficient being located closer to the tank - just thinking of reducing the risk of blockage.
Any assistance much appreciated

I can't tell you about how to install a Vacuflush, but have heard great things about the Raritan Marine Elegance head which apparently has the vacuum equipment inside the head itself. No extra plumbing other than getting water from the potable water system and no extra space needed for a vacuum generator.. There are three versions of controls, the most expensive is probably the best (naturally).

A couple years ago I had the opportunity to purchase and install a used one from a friend's boat that was being sold but I wasn't sure it would fit my boat and he wasn't offering me a great price so I let it go.

Vacuflush conversion

Thanks WesK
Yes I looked at that option but I can do the vacuflush very inexpensively and have 2 good locations for the VG4 at either end. Marinediscounters are doing a VG4 kit which is basically all the parts for the VG4 that you then put together yourself but at half the cost of the regular assembly and that is quite a saving.They are also selling off the VF heads at trade so over all a very economical way of changing over.
I am just not sure if its more efficient to have the unit very close to the head which means the suction is over a shorter distance but the pumping of the waste is longer or vise versa.

.I am planning to convert the existing electric jabsco head to a vacuflush system

Would not it be easier and more reliable to purchase a better QUALITY head , even used and rebuilt?

I have two vaccuflush heads on my boat.

Yes, they work. Yes they seem pretty reliable.

I do not like them.

The admrial thinks they are noisy.

I think that they will be a real PITA to work on, since the vaccuflush units are not in a place that makes servicing easy.

I'm going to change them both out, possibly this season, but probably next season. I'm not in a big hurry because they do work.

The replacement will be something from Raritan. Something with a macerator. Something I can work on all in one spot.

FF
Thank you for your suggestion. Yes considered that too but we have a good friend who has done the same install on a similar boat and it has worked very well - Admiral very impressed - hence orders from above ! I think the flick of a switch/pressing of a foot pedal simplicity is the obvious major draw! The later model of our vessel has this system and I just put a request in to see where they locate the unit at the factory.

ksanders said:

I have two vaccuflush heads on my boat.

Yes, they work. Yes they seem pretty reliable.

I do not like them.

The admrial thinks they are noisy.

I think that they will be a real PITA to work on, since the vaccuflush units are not in a place that makes servicing easy.

I'm going to change them both out, possibly this season, but probably next season. I'm not in a big hurry because they do work.

The replacement will be something from Raritan. Something with a macerator. Something I can work on all in one spot.

Click to expand...

Kevin
Do you have the older model VF - I was under the impression that the later units are very quite?
I am seriously thinking that it would be best to locate in the engine room - plenty of space-ease of maintenance and then no noise factor.
But you are right because now I would have the head mechanism as well as the pump unit to repair/service.
Right now its easy to pull the Jabsco and unclog/service.
Going to take another look at Raritan I think.
Many Thanks
Mark

For what it's worth we have a Vacuflush on Ebbtide. It has worked flawlessly regardless of paper type. Our head is forward and the VG is aft at the holding tank. In my opinion farther is better as the inches of vacuum are the same but the volume of vacuum is greater. Our VG is in the Engine Room and holding tank is in the Lazzarett (sp).

Thanks Bob
That's good to hear.
Mounting the VG in the engine room would definitely increase the volume that is under vacuum giving more potential to remove waste at the Head end.
I just confirmed with one of the reps that this would work well in our application so Engine room it will be.
Now if we can just get rid of all this snow, the Polar Vortex and get the boat out of wrap I can start!!! April seems a long way off right now though.
Many thanks to everyone for your kind and very quick responses.

Become an expert on it if you do install it...many marine techs and marinas don't have a clue how to properly troubleshoot them and that costs a fortune in trial and error. If possible when you have any trouble with them...take your boat to a marina that also services a fleet of boats that come with vacu-flush, like Sea Rays where I used to work...they knew their stuff because they fixed several systems a day.

That's a definite.
I thought that by assembling the kit myself to make the working unit would give me a good initial insight into the mechanics of the system and then doing the install always teaches us a thing or two and uncovers something else no doubt!
I am also fortunate being an engineer and having a great relationship with the Techs at our marina.
Have already started to read up on problems on the forums but Brad at marinediscount that is supplying the VG4 has been dealing with them for years and is very knowledgeable. He is also willing to give advice too. Got to love people that don't just want to sell the product but want everything to work well too.
Best Regards
Mark

Interesting thread. Most VF people change to anything but a VF. They work but have many "don't do this or put this in it" rules. I want a head that works like a head. I have Jabsco quiet flush heads and they are 20 years old this year, no problems.

From the experiences of my neighbors, keep white vinegar handy and flush it down to keep the duck bills clean.

I hear you.
I don't think Ill be throwing the old unit away for a while just in case!
Thanks for the advice.
Mark

I will miss the three VFs on our Hatteras, which we lived aboard full time for 5 1/2 years, part time for another year, much of it on moorings and at anchor, and with many guests. I spent less time messing with those toilets than any I have ever owned on land and sea. ZERO time spent on two of them, and once I remediated an improper PO installation on the other, over three years ago, zero on that one too. I would never own anything else. Use proper paper, flush enough water through them, live is good, even with certain crew members who never did learn to use them exactly right.

That very reassuring to hear.
Sounds like the system was well installed and maintained.
Have ordered everything today so hopefully i can do as good a job on installing.
Thank you very much for your input.
Mark

caltexflanc said:

Use proper paper, flush enough water through them, live is good, even with certain crew members who never did learn to use them exactly right.

Click to expand...

I agree, we have two. In both cases the pumps are in the ER. Where we boat (PNW) there are plenty of VF head experts. But be sure to have each on a separate breaker so when they start pumping, for God knows why, at midnight you can shut them off.

Good Point Thanks!
I will use the breaker that already exists for the Jabsco. ( The new VG draws less amperage too)
Can anything be louder than that Jabsco when one of the Kids uses the head at 2am in the morning - it backs right onto our berth!

markdd said:

Good Point Thanks!
I will use the breaker that already exists for the Jabsco. ( The new VG draws less amperage too)
Can anything be louder than that Jabsco when one of the Kids uses the head at 2am in the morning - it backs right onto our berth!

Click to expand...

The VG for the vacuflush is under the master berth in our Ocean Alexander..

The family knows better than to flush the head after a night time pee...

When guests are aboard I shut the head off when I go to bed.. how does the old adage go?? if it's yellow let it mellow...

I turn the Head back on after the Admiral graces us with her presence in the morning.

HOLLYWOOD

If you install it where it can be reached for service it will make life easier. There are other systems where hard to reach is a better deal.

Next time I need to (I don't think many want to) disconnect any hoses, I'm going to install some unions. The only difficult thing is getting the hoses off and on.

Holywood
Are the VG s really loud when pumping? Is it the pump causing the vacuum or the pumping to the holding tank...probably both eh? I Thought the latest VG4 was supposed to be quite? We will soon find out but as you suggest we can always shut em down with the breaker. Maybe should have purchased a larger bowl!!!

I have a great spot in the engine room with stacks of room to work but I thought of connecting it with unions so I can remove the whole thing for service/unblocking cleaning etc. As I mentioned I have replaced all of the old Sani hose with Sched 40 PVC which has worked excellent and if I mount the VG in the engine room as planned was thinking of splicing in a garden hose connection near the head. This could be used to unblock or flush the lines occasionally.
I can document the install if anyone is interested.

Spare unions with plugs for those special times. Disconnect, replace withe plugged units. 2 minutes max and the smell is minimized.

You will want some flexible hose on each side of the VG.

markdd said:

Holywood
Are the VG s really loud when pumping? Is it the pump causing the vacuum or the pumping to the holding tank...probably both eh? I Thought the latest VG4 was supposed to be quite? We will soon find out but as you suggest we can always shut em down with the breaker. Maybe should have purchased a larger bowl!!!

Click to expand...

Two sounds.....
The swooosh when the toilet is flushed as the vacuum in the system equalizes...

Then the " thunka thunk " as the piston pushes the waste to the holding tank ( or better yet overboard ) then creates new vacuum in the system.

If it wasn't under my head as I try to get my beauty sleep I wouldn't give a crap about the noise it makes.

Overall I am really happy with vacuflush systems as this boat is the third VF system we have had.

The ferry I sometimes drive has a VF system,, at times there are 70 aboard with one head... most of the passengers never have used them before... they work great until someone uses a half a roll of TP or drops paper towels in the thing and tries to flush.. this makes for a very unhappy skipper.
HOLLYWOOD

SaltyDog said:

Spare unions with plugs for those special times. Disconnect, replace withe plugged units. 2 minutes max and the smell is minimized.

You will want some flexible hose on each side of the VG.

Click to expand...

Also I am going to mount on Silent blocks to try and reduce vibration and noise factor.
Hollywood is doing an excellent impression of a a VG I can almost hear it Ha!

hollywood8118 said:

Two sounds.....
The swooosh when the toilet is flushed as the vacuum in the system equalizes...

Then the " thunka thunk " as the piston pushes the waste to the holding tank ( or better yet overboard ) then creates new vacuum in the system.

If it wasn't under my head as I try to get my beauty sleep I wouldn't give a crap about the noise it makes.

Overall I am really happy with vacuflush systems as this boat is the third VF system we have had.

The ferry I sometimes drive has a VF system,, at times there are 70 aboard with one head... most of the passengers never have used them before... they work great until someone uses a half a roll of TP or drops paper towels in the thing and tries to flush.. this makes for a very unhappy skipper.
HOLLYWOOD

Click to expand...

Hi Hollywood.
Awesome sound effects Captain! Thanks. I tried repeating them to the admiral but she threw something heavy at me!...again.
Many thanks for the input - we only have the one head on board and I think we will get it in working order but like you say you cant stop people throwing things down there that don't belong then its a shitty job sorting it out sometimes incurring much loss of sense of humor. I guess that's when I go from Captain to Craptain!!!
You know I think its only the guys at NASA that would discuss this subject to the depth that we do!
Very much enjoy the contributions on this site thanks everyone.
Mark

Our VG pump is in the Lazzarett and rubber mounted. We still hear it though not too loudly. The fresh water pump is louder. Our VG switch is in the head and works well for us.

Now there's an idea!!! What about a soundproof...ish enclosure.
cant see any problems with motor overheating and easy fab ?
Bit like the genny. Then if its rubber mounted we should be minimum decibels.
Only trouble for me is that if I cant hear something operate I don't know if its working. Last spring I replaced the thunderous water pump that used to constantly tell me too much water was being used - with one of the silent variable speed pumps. Result...now my daughter and her friends can empty one tank and fill the other easily without me being aware!!!!

We have two and like them very much. Very little trouble. Each VG is located very close to the toilet. In the fwd head the VG is in the cabinet right behind the toilet. In the aft head it's located on the other side of the bulkhead in the engine room. Noise has never been an issue, though the initial "sucking" sound when flushing can be sort of loud, but just for a second. The macerator/pump noise - to us - is pretty acceptable, even the one in the cabinet.

Anything beats pumping by hand, especially when you have guests aboard with no prior marine head experience.

This has been a very interesting thread to follow as we are in the throes of making decisions about upgrading our two toilets on Blue Sky. We are down to deciding between the Vacuflush and the Raritan Elegance, I think.

The local yard, who have been excellent on a number of projects, have in preliminary discussions said:

They have installed Vacuflush systems on a number of crew boats - forestry, logging, etc., and have yet to have any problems, clogging or otherwise. They tell me that the Vacuflush laughs at wetwipes etc. that will clog a macerator. (However if there is a macerator on the holding tank you will have just transferred the clog downstream to a probably more problematic location.)They have never plumbed one for direct overboard discharge although it could be done. The concern there is that you might have a rather violent eruption out the through hull.

The Raritan Elegance is well regarded and is a more traditional design, for whatever that's worth.

Our goals are reliability, clog freeness (neoligistically speaking), and silence.

But in the end I suspect that our decision will be based on available space and how it would impact ongoing maintenance on either system.

We have been full live a boards for 6+ years with one vacuflush toilet and the vacumn generator mounted in engine room with very easy access. I replaced the duck bills after 5 years because of age. They still were working but when removed could see they were on their last legs. Easy job. The pumping action of the VG is somewhat noisy however we are a small boat. Use as much rigid pvc as possible and use the best/most impermeable sanitation hose possible e.g. trident 101(?) per Peggy Halls recommendation. We only use septic safe TP i.e. Scotts single ply absolutely no Charmin or other non dissolving/clumping TP. Nothing else goes down not coming from mouth, flush-able wipes are not flush-able! Resulting in clogs etc on any overboard macerater if so equipped and even municipal treatment systems. So our system is simple to diagnose and fix as long as VG is easily accessible. It is actually a very robust simple design if use rules are followed.

Joe