Anchor Ball

BruceK · Jan 15, 2014

RTF, we were taught about a US case where someone used a gas lawnmower on wheels as a hedge trimmer, lost some fingers (surprise surprise) the successfully sued maker had to put a warning "not to be used as a hedge trimmer". It is said "hard cases make bad law". Now and then something bizarre happens, but most times civil Courts take a good look to produce a fair result. Prosecutions for breach of regs, like "not display anchor ball" can be absolute, but the civil result of the collision can be "grey" rather than "black & white". And it could be quite different in the US, and in Canada, and I should be careful to respect that.

Northern Spy · Jan 15, 2014

Non-pecuniary damages are capped in Canada to ~350K (and adjusted to inflation), punitive damages are unusual, and most civil cases don't see a jury.

Feel free to trim your hedges with whatever you like in Canada, as it won't be profitable in the court of law here.

Oh, and I don't have an anchor ball, nor have I ever seen one displayed on a non-commercial vessel in this area. I have seen conical shapes on motorsailers.

hollywood8118 · Jan 15, 2014

BruceK said:
RTF, we were taught about a US case where someone used a gas lawnmower on wheels as a hedge trimmer, lost some fingers (surprise surprise) the successfully sued maker had to put a warning "not to be used as a hedge trimmer". It is said "hard cases make bad law". Now and then something bizarre happens, but most times civil Courts take a good look to produce a fair result. Prosecutions for breach of regs, like "not display anchor ball" can be absolute, but the civil result of the collision can be "grey" rather than "black & white". And it could be quite different in the US, and in Canada, and I should be careful to respect that.

They should have a blanket disclaimer on all power equipment...

"this equipment should not be used if you are a moron"

That should cover ti..
HOLLYWOOD

BruceK · Jan 15, 2014

hollywood8118 said:
They should have a blanket disclaimer on all power equipment...

"this equipment should not be used if you are a moron"

That should cover ti..
HOLLYWOOD

In workplace injury law, it is generally accepted the only truly safe industrial machine is so protected by safety guards and interlocks it defies any form of use.

rwidman · Jan 16, 2014

Larry M said:
We started using one a few years ago. If for nothing else for liability.
There are enough knuckle heads out there so why not? Outside the US they are pretty common even on some of the smaller vessels. We have one of these and they're less than $20.

Is that black? It doesn't look it in the photo.

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If I were to make a guess, I would say that 98% of boaters in the USA do not display an anchor ball when anchored in the daytime and 99% of boaters have no idea what an anchor ball is or means. Remember that "boaters" includes anyone operating a boat of any size or type.

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(c) In a vessel of less than 20 meters in length shapes of lesser dimensions but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used and the distance apart may be correspondingly reduced.

Well that says a lot. "commensurate with the size of the vessel" So we break out our calculators and do the math ? And is that LOA, waterline, or LOD?

psneeld · Jan 16, 2014

WesK said:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26683&d=1389791832
Is that black? It doesn't look it in the photo.

If I were to make a guess, I would say that 98% of boaters in the USA do not display an anchor ball when anchored in the daytime and 99% of boaters have no idea what an anchor ball is or means.

Unfortunately true and they also have only a vague idea of the rest of the NAVRULES...but it doesn't protect them from being found at least partially at fault when things go wrong...

An anchor ball is an inexpensive (make one for pennies) and easy way to help one's case should something happen beyond one's control.

RickB · Jan 16, 2014

boatpoker said:
Sorry, there wasn't much on the internet 20 years ago.

No, but there are detailed descriptions of every incident involving every cruise ship since the industry expanded in the 1980s.

A loss of steering, a grounding, a collision or allision, cast huge spotlights on the trade and the number of regulators collecting and publishing investigative reports is amazing. Add those to the records compiled by cruise junkies and cruise critics and not much is missed.

rwidman · Jan 16, 2014

Buying or making an anchor ball should not be an issue. If I can't justify spending $20 on my boat, I need to find a different hobby.

The issue would be storing it, mounting it, and remembering to put it up and take it down each time.

psneeld · Jan 16, 2014

WesK said:
Buying or making an anchor ball should not be an issue. If I can't justify spending $20 on my boat, I need to find a different hobby.

The issue would be storing it, mounting it, and remembering to put it up and take it down each time.

The take apart /inflatable ones can be stored almost anywhere and mounting possibilities are easy and endless.

Remembering the basic NAVRULES is just part of the description for "captain".

Larry M · Jan 16, 2014

WesK said:
...Is that black? It doesn't look it in the photo...

psneeld said:
The take apart...ones can be stored almost anywhere and mounting possibilities are easy and endless....

It is black. It's constructed of 2, interlocking pieces of hard plastic so it stores flat.

rwidman · Jan 16, 2014

Larry M said:
It is black. It's constructed of 2, interlocking pieces of hard plastic so it stores flat.

Thanks. I should have asked you where you got it.

My boat came with a radar reflector that apparently works something like that. I've never used it though.

Richard W · Jan 16, 2014

Here it is, a 12" (30 cm) version like in the photos, smaller than regulations 60 cm but sufficient for a 10 m boat ... I guess ...

Link: Plastimo Anchoring Ball

River Cruiser · Jan 16, 2014

After seeing how FG boats show up on radar if I was going to be anchoring near a channel I would buy one & use it. I anchor off channel behind islands where the tows don't come close.

Giggitoni · Jan 16, 2014

WesK said:
------------
If I were to make a guess, I would say that 98% of boaters in the USA do not display an anchor ball when anchored in the daytime and 99% of boaters have no idea what an anchor ball is or means....

------------------

Doesn't matter! An attorney will look at the regs and find the part that says we need to display an "anchor ball" when anchored during daylight hours....no different than a shark smelling blood in the water

Sorry, David, but I've had my fill of geologist jokes during my life!!!

CPseudonym · Jan 16, 2014

Thanks to all for the education. Now I'll have to devise a way to appropriately display said day shape on my boat. Those of us whom are mast challenged need creative options.

N4712 · Jan 16, 2014

CPseudonym said:
Thanks to all for the education. Now I'll have to devise a way to appropriately display said day shape on my boat. Those of us whom are mast challenged need creative options.

What about a mast mounted forward?

SaltyDog · Jan 16, 2014

The dragging anchor symbol?

CPseudonym · Jan 16, 2014

SaltyDog said:
The dragging anchor symbol?

This man really has seen me at anchor before

N4712 · Jan 16, 2014

SaltyDog said:
The dragging anchor symbol?

I was just using the pic because there's a good example of a forward mast, that would look like it would work for his boat.

Northern Spy · Jan 16, 2014

Recommended anchor ball sizes from USCG Boating Safety Circular 75

markpierce · Jan 16, 2014

I'm torn between hoisting the anchor ball from my mast's spreader or attached to the forward pulpit's flag pole. Spreader-hoist would give 360-degree visibility while the pulpit would be forward with about 330-degree visibility.

Richard W · Jan 16, 2014

Too many choices ... you are lucky Mark.

How about this ... the boat is 29', the ball simulation is 12" ... would this work?
I could make/adapt something that would slide on the VHF antenna while on anchor.

Peter B · Jan 17, 2014

Showing these balls are just not an issue here down under. Why does the US have to make everything sooo hard..?
When I first saw the thread heading, I thought it was going to be all about having a ball at anchor…you know…like rafted up partying or something similar.

FF · Jan 17, 2014

Who here displays an anchor ball as required and who doesn't and why?

We do 100% of the time when anchored as designated anchorages are far and few between.

In the NE many designated anchorages are mostly mooring fields , claimed to be OWNED by local towns , which will ticket any one that anchors there.

It would be too costly to educate the locals , so nonsense like SAG HARBOR LI having ownership to the designated anchorage across from the town , 1/4 mile wide and 1 1/2 miles long . with 4 boats at mooring continues.

AHH for the good old days before the USCG gave up and became the Federal Marine Police.

rwidman · Jan 17, 2014

Richard W said:
Too many choices ... you are lucky Mark.

How about this ... the boat is 29', the ball simulation is 12" ... would this work?
I could make/adapt something that would slide on the VHF antenna while on anchor.

Your antenna is not designed to be used as a mount. I would look for another solution.

rwidman · Jan 17, 2014

Peter B said:
Showing these balls are just not an issue here down under. Why does the US have to make everything sooo hard..?
When I first saw the thread heading, I thought it was going to be all about having a ball at anchor…you know…like rafted up partying or something similar.

If you read the entire thread, you would know that very few boaters in the USA show anchor balls either. Personally, I can't recall ever seeing one on a recreational boat, but the requirement is in the regulations.

Richard W · Jan 17, 2014

Peter B said:
Showing these balls are just not an issue here down under. Why does the US have to make everything sooo hard..?

Isn't this an Intrnational rule, Rule 30?

Richard W · Jan 17, 2014

WesK said:
Your antenna is not designed to be used as a mount. I would look for another solution.

Yeah, looks flimsy and iffy when the winds pick up.

BDofMSP · Jan 17, 2014

CPseudonym said:
Thanks to all for the education. Now I'll have to devise a way to appropriately display said day shape on my boat. Those of us whom are mast challenged need creative options.

I'm very interested to hear what people without masts come up with. My express cruiser has neither mast nor radar arch. I do have a bimini, but its not always deployed.

psneeld · Jan 17, 2014

a fish rod holder, temp or permanent, and a boathook or pole....... somewhere's near the bow, preferably 360 degree view but if not from dead astern, I wouldn't be all that concerned if you can't get it high enough

Anchor Ball

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