8D Battery Replacement options

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drb1025

Guru
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
703
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Fiddler
Vessel Make
DeFever 46
I have two 8D batteries for starting two 135hp JDs. These batteries also run the hydraulic crane and the windlass. One has gone bad and I am going to replace them both. I am considering replacing each 8D with two Group 31s. This would provide more CCAs as well as allow me to install them due to being half the size and weight of the 8Ds. Any thoughts on this proposed configuration are appreciated. Thanks
 
I have two 8D batteries for starting two 135hp JDs. These batteries also run the hydraulic crane and the windlass. One has gone bad and I am going to replace them both. I am considering replacing each 8D with two Group 31s. This would provide more CCAs as well as allow me to install them due to being half the size and weight of the 8Ds. Any thoughts on this proposed configuration are appreciated. Thanks

As home bank and engine starters... Been using four (4) wet cell Group 31 Deep Cell Batts from Battery Plus Store for years. Inexpensive, no problem, easy to maintain, charge quickly, and they collectively supply plenty of power. Also have a gen set Group 27 starter batt... and... a completely independent Group 27 deep-cell/starter combo batt that is always 100% charged in wait for if all else fails! :thumb:

http://www.batteriesplus.com/produc...-Boat-Deep-Cycle-Battery-Xtreme-SLI31MDC.aspx
 
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I am no fan of the 8ds. Too heavy. I'm not real crazy about a setup that has you running that other stuff off a starting battery. Starting batts should be dedicated and separated. The house needs should be handled by deep cycle batts. If possible I would put a group battery of appropriate CCA for start and 6v cart batts for house.
 
New sealed 1300CCA dual use/compromise 8Ds, if needed, 53.5 kilograms each. Not an install job I look forward to.
 
I have 8 6v Trojans for the house bank. I agree that it would be better to run the crane and windlass off the house bank. I run the engines when using them.
 
I have 8 6v Trojans for the house bank. I agree that it would be better to run the crane and windlass off the house bank. I run the engines when using them.
The crane would be handy installing the 8Ds.
 
2 Banks , start & house are always the better choice , but running start (31) as house batts is never a good option.

The 8-D size , at least as a truck batt is a reasonable compromise.

Sure there heavy to move every 5 -6 years , but a couple of $20 bills handles the problem.

Few wires to hook , and keep clean, few cells to water (hydrocap if you have the height) and if its already in a safe secure box , no extra work.

IF your operation changes and the 8D do loads of house service , the change to 2 batt styles may become necessary.
 
Running all short-burst high current draw equipment off a battery bank configured for this specific purpose actually makes a lot of sense. My vessel is set up this way too. The thruster and crane have more in common with engine start than House loads, You might consider Optima spiral bound AGMs: very robust, high charge delivery, fast recharge & tolerant of variations in charging voltages. Much easier to handle than 8Ds, Of course you can still parallel to the House bank in the event of a problem with either.
 

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When I reconfigured my DC system, I decided to pull the windlass off the start battery as to not put, what I considered, a heavy load on the house bank just before sitting on the hook. In addition, the engine is running at the time. ;-)

That was my take. YMMV. However, as I sit and think about it now, I did move the alternator (since I only have one) to feed the house bank while underway. Perhaps I should move the windlass back to the house buss. Hmmm... At least it's an easy swap from one buss bar to another. :-D
 
Go with golf cart batteries. MUCH easier to handle, better deep cycle capabilities, all the cranking you will ever need. Pair them with a modern 3 step charger. Ferro-resonant chargers are garbage.
 
So, maybe I'm the only one here but I like the 8D batteries.

I have heard and read the specs of the group 31's but I just do not beleive that the people that designed the group 31 were, (using the same technology) that much smarter than the people designing the 8D.

To me, bigger, and heavier makes a better battery.

I'd rather see your windlass and crane running on your house bank though.
From my standpoint there should be zero loads on the start batteries other than starters. But, that is not what you were asking.

As was previously suggested, dockside labor for a half hours work can be fairly inexpensive. If it were me, I'd find two strong kids and offer them 20 or 50 bucks each to do the heavy lifting.

For less than one visit to the chiropractor this issue can be solved. :blush:
 
So, maybe I'm the only one here but I like the 8D batteries. I have heard and read the specs of the group 31's but I just do not beleive that the people that designed the group 31 were, (using the same technology) that much smarter than the people designing the 8D. To me, bigger, and heavier makes a better battery. I'd rather see your windlass and crane running on your house bank though. From my standpoint there should be zero loads on the start batteries other than starters. But, that is not what you were asking. As was previously suggested, dockside labor for a half hours work can be fairly inexpensive. If it were me, I'd find two strong kids and offer them 20 or 50 bucks each to do the heavy lifting. For less than one visit to the chiropractor this issue can be solved. :blush:
I totally agree, I rather have nine big 8D's instead of a bunch of smaller batteries. I think the whole weight thing is just an excuse like ff said only takes a couple twenty dollar bills to get some help. I also recommend if you have the money, go for AGM ones, so you don't have to worry about them giving off gases and having to fill them with water.
 
I really don't think starting those engines really needs an 8D, trucks use them to start big diesels in all kinds of weather including below zero, often using large doses of glow plugs. Boaters just don't have the all weather starting requirements.

That said, I like to be as independent as possible, I am fairly young and while not adverse to spending a few 20's to the local youth I don't want to be dependent on someone else. When replacing the 8D starting batt. in Firefly I went with two 1000 amp cranking batts and they fit nicely into the old box.

I have nine 6 volt GC batts for the house and one cranking batt hooked up to the gen-set with one Gp 31 not hooked up to anything, this is trickle charged and alongside the genset battery.

I can replace any or all of the battery's myself even moving them with the dingy if necessary. Like I said, I like to be independent, most likely this will change as my back gets older, but at least now I have a fighting chance. Horsing 8D's around under deck in limited space alone was not going to happen.

I think the price for 8D's in comparison to four 6 volt GC batteries, makes the GC batteries a better buy especially considering their designed use allows for longer life.

My $.02
 
I have two 8D batteries for starting two 135hp JDs. These batteries also run the hydraulic crane and the windlass. One has gone bad and I am going to replace them both. I am considering replacing each 8D with two Group 31s. This would provide more CCAs as well as allow me to install them due to being half the size and weight of the 8Ds. Any thoughts on this proposed configuration are appreciated. Thanks

I'm with Kevin and FF, stick with the 8Ds. Northern Diesel out of Anacortes has very good prices and strong backs for the install. BTW, I much prefer the davit and windlass to run off the starts, the boat was built that way and seems to work just fine.

I even have an 8D for the genset start, I know I'm probably the only guy here with one for that use, but WTH.
 
I'm with Kevin and FF, stick with the 8Ds. Northern Diesel out of Anacortes has very good prices and strong backs for the install. BTW, I much prefer the davit and windlass to run off the starts, the boat was built that way and seems to work just fine. I even have an 8D for the genset start, I know I'm probably the only guy here with one for that use, but WTH.
We have a 4D for wing/ gen starting, so your almost not alone.:D
 
I'm with Kevin and FF, stick with the 8Ds. Northern Diesel out of Anacortes has very good prices and strong backs for the install. BTW, I much prefer the davit and windlass to run off the starts, the boat was built that way and seems to work just fine.
I even have an 8D for the genset start, I know I'm probably the only guy here with one for that use, but WTH.

I agree. . . Either stay with the 8D's or if you want a lighter smaller case 4D's (which are common to bus and truck applications.) Having owned commercial boats we never ran anything smaller. I switched from 8D to 4D's, because the space allowed me to add another battery bank and an additional 2600 amps. Yeah, they're also 45 lbs lighter which is nice. I also swapped out the generator battery from a smaller auto/golf cart battery to a 4D which is another 1000 amps. Gives you plenty of options for when things go wrong.

I normally use Interstate Batteries, but I'm trying two 4D Pacific Power Batteries on one bank now. At $173 each I had to give it a look!! They're 4 lbs lighter than the Interstates. The weight of the battery is a product of the amount of battery material that's inside the case and not all batteries of the same case size weigh the same. The Interstate set they replaced were still going strong on their 11th year. So we will see??
 
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Thanks for your suggestions. Per the JD owner's manual, these engines need 640-800 CCAs, so the 8Ds are overkill for starting. But with the extra load from the windlass and crane, perhaps that is why they were installed. One of the 8Ds is dying and sucking the life out of the other, so I need a solution that is equal to or greater than the CCAs of the starting 8Ds, but with less weight so I can replace them in the future without hiring someone. Thus, the idea of paralleling two Gp 31s to replace each 8D.
 
Thanks for your suggestions. Per the JD owner's manual, these engines need 640-800 CCAs, so the 8Ds are overkill for starting. But with the extra load from the windlass and crane, perhaps that is why they were installed. One of the 8Ds is dying and sucking the life out of the other, so I need a solution that is equal to or greater than the CCAs of the starting 8Ds, but with less weight so I can replace them in the future without hiring someone. Thus, the idea of paralleling two Gp 31s to replace each 8D.

Revisit post # 2. :thumb: And, Best Luck! :D
 
Thus, the idea of paralleling two Gp 31s to replace each 8D.

This is what I did and it works fine, as a plus if one battery is wonky in the future you can replace it by itself.

One of the 31's will start your engine with no problem so you could connect them with a 3 way switch for even more options while cruising out away.

I like options, independence and being self-reliant. :)
 
I'm a huge fan of Rolls batteries. They will cost you more up front, but maybe less in the long run. You might replace a Marine Store Special 8D every 4 or 5 years. The Rolls come with a 10 year warranty, and the first 7 years aren't even pro-rated. Full replacement if the battery fails before 7 years. Spend twice as much for a Rolls and get at least twice the life- and avoid the pain and strain of replacement. I know people who claim they are better than 15 years into a set of Rolls. We sold our last boat with Rolls batteries about 12 years old- still performing very well.

Obviously, the strategy doesn't pay off for somebody in the habit of trading boats every few years. You're unlikely to enhance the resale value by enough to cover the difference in cost if you don't keep the boat long enough to wear out a standard battery.
 
I'm a huge fan of Rolls batteries. They will cost you more up front, but maybe less in the long run. You might replace a Marine Store Special 8D every 4 or 5 years. The Rolls come with a 10 year warranty, and the first 7 years aren't even pro-rated. Full replacement if the battery fails before 7 years. Spend twice as much for a Rolls and get at least twice the life- and avoid the pain and strain of replacement. I know people who claim they are better than 15 years into a set of Rolls. We sold our last boat with Rolls batteries about 12 years old- still performing very well.

Obviously, the strategy doesn't pay off for somebody in the habit of trading boats every few years. You're unlikely to enhance the resale value by enough to cover the difference in cost if you don't keep the boat long enough to wear out a standard battery.

How much are you paying for an 8D Rolls?

The internet prices I see start around $800....
 
How much are you paying for an 8D Rolls?

The internet prices I see start around $800....

Cost Comparison:

Five years ago I outfitted our Tolly with four group 31 deep cycle marine batt and one Group 27 combo, for under $600; from a “Batteries Plus” store. All five batts are still performing well. I never let them discharge over 50% and check water in a few cells every 6 months (top off w/ distilled water once a year)... inexpensive, great service, easy piesie maintenance! :thumb:

Happy Boating Daze! - Art :speed boat:
 
My last Interstate 8Ds cost $152 apiece
 
I know all that...I wanna know if a Rolls only costs 2X more than my setup...then I can agree with the numbers game....but most of the time wet cells come in at a price that if you take care of them...they are hard to beat.

Just checking other tech or higher priced stuff to see if it has drifted down to be the better deal.
 
The two Rolls 8D in Dear Prudence cost me a total of about $1200, but I happened upon a special opportunity. About the time I was throwing out the two junk batteries the previous owners had been using, one of my friends in the business cleaned out a warehouse. Back behind a bunch of stuff that had been there for several years there were two brand new Rolls batteries. They are shipped "dry", so there was nothing in any of the cells but the lead plates. As the batteries had never been sold or activated, the full factory warranty was still available. We poured in the acid, put them on a charger, and they proved to be as good as new (which they were).

You can buy cheaper batteries, and frankly most people do. In my opinion, the Rolls are a push or better with buying cheaper stuff- especially when considering the cost and hassle of swapping out a standard battery once, twice, or maybe even three times during the usual life of a Rolls.

Biggest difference, as far as I can tell, is that the Rolls have larger and heavier plates. They also wrap each lead plate in a type of a sack that is permeable by acid. As the plates eventually degrade, and slough off remains in the sack. A lot of wet cell batteries fail when plates begin to disintegrate and enough debris builds up on the bottom of the cell to create a short.
 
The two Rolls 8D in Dear Prudence cost me a total of about $1200, but I happened upon a special opportunity. About the time I was throwing out the two junk batteries the previous owners had been using, one of my friends in the business cleaned out a warehouse. Back behind a bunch of stuff that had been there for several years there were two brand new Rolls batteries. They are shipped "dry", so there was nothing in any of the cells but the lead plates. As the batteries had never been sold or activated, the full factory warranty was still available. We poured in the acid, put them on a charger, and they proved to be as good as new (which they were).

You can buy cheaper batteries, and frankly most people do. In my opinion, the Rolls are a push or better with buying cheaper stuff- especially when considering the cost and hassle of swapping out a standard battery once, twice, or maybe even three times during the usual life of a Rolls.

Biggest difference, as far as I can tell, is that the Rolls have larger and heavier plates. They also wrap each lead plate in a type of a sack that is permeable by acid. As the plates eventually degrade, and slough off remains in the sack. A lot of wet cell batteries fail when plates begin to disintegrate and enough debris builds up on the bottom of the cell to create a short.

Cheapest I have seen a Rolls 8D...no shipping, internet price - $800

My heavy duty, top rated American 6V golf cart batt - $112.5x2= $225

Less than 1/3 as much, designed for numerous, deep cycles too. Not sure if the Rolls has independent cells ( I thought they did), but if one goes bad on me...I can replace 1/2 the batt.

They are 1/2 the weight, I can configure the shape better to suit my engine room.

While the Rolls are not a bad deal if you don't have to pay shipping and they truly last 15 years...many of us aren't willing to gamble on the longevity, or don't have a distributer near us, often have to buy one "on the road" do you get what you get, etc...etc...so we just settle into our routine and accept what we have in the bilge:thumb:
 
Yes, the Rolls have independent cells. That actually makes them easy to install in places with difficult access. Put one cell at a time into the battery box and then bolt them together. If a cell eventually goes bad, it's possible to replace a single cell rather than buy an entire battery. It's commonly understood that most of the time when a battery fails the problem can be traced to a single cell. If the cells can't be individually removed, a whole new battery will be required.
 
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