Passagemaking question???

"Voyaging under power" is a good one too, especially if you can find a 1st edition used.

FF said:

"
Except for the Marn Marie , and one or two others most of the thousands of circumnavigations have been under SAIL..

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FF

Especially in Capt Cooks time

sunchaser said:

GG

Follow the thread about the 6000 mile trip to Brazil. BTW, how would you get your family into a N43? Your boat keeps getting smaller.

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He was referring to some folks that he knows. Their 16 year old has been doing an ongoing blog of their families travels since she was 12, which I am now following. The blog is intriguing to me because my youngest should be a full time cruiser by the time he turns about 9, so I love to see the journey from the perspective of this amazing young lady since she started cruising at 12. They have a Nordhaven 43. The Norhaven seems like a very nice/seaworthy boat, but it would be way too small for us.

I am new at this Forum, Airline Pilot in France, and plan to travel with my wife and two kids 4 and 2 on a trawler around the world for an indefinited time.
So some can tell: again a dreamer, as I have a very small expertise and experience in sailing of motor boating....a little bit more in navigation, weather, and travelling with my job....but I am sure that We will do it. This is a challenge, but just an other one in our life, and to br honest it does not look like it's the biggest one.
We will do it on the safe side, with maybe a professional on the first crossing ( Europe-Caraibe), but we Have to do it as crossing ocean is something initiatic for us.
I read plenty of sailor familly blog who cross the world with initial few experience....This is life and we have only one.
I recomand ypu to google on NORDHAVN 43 KOSMOS to see a couple who circumnavigate the world in two years with absolutely no experience on start.

Passagemaking question

You might also review the blog of the Nordhavn 46 Emily Grace, Emily Grace, which recently completed a circumnavigation. The 46 is a seaworthy boat, slightly bigger than a 43.

Especially in Capt Cooks time

As a guess I would think the number of sail boats on a world tour today is at about a 1000-1 ratio to motor boats.

Not many have ever chimed in on the SSCA web site.

An ocean crossing vessel would have:

Fuel capacity to cross the Atlantic, 1850 nautical miles (nm), Pacific 2100 nm plus a reserve of at least 10%.

Full displacement hull for sea keeping

Active or passive stabilization

Small windows or lexan stormplates

Usually an entirely independent auxiliary engine with its own drive shaft and prop, or a twin engine boat capable of operating on one engine.


A good deal of additional equipment which can be added to any boat.

Marty

I am always amazed by the list of what we think necessary for a crossing. Yesterday I was looking on some youtube video and I fpund a French speaking familly showing the sailing boat they use to travel through the world with their two small kids.
http://youtu.be/kALNkkZ7u7M
Go at around the middle and you will see a Very rustic boat, with just radio, and a handle gps, ( just showing coordinates), very very low central cockpit with wood spartiat seats, direct "barre franche",just one cabine.....and they did it!
Lesson one: You just need the desire.
Lesson two: You need what YOU need......and theses guys did not need a lot.
I read something from Nordhavn about one of their Nordhavn 43 customer who order the boat with Nearly NO OPTIONS ( no stabilyzer, no air co, no wing engine, no crane, etc.....) Very basic navigation.....initialy they try to convince the owner but realize that the guy had quite experience....when they deliver the boat the sale person finally found it Very refreshing.
And the guy had a new boat for far less than the same used model on the market.....

Do we really need all these redundency ? two radars ? satphone? freezer and water maker ?
Do we need a flybridge ? Two autopilot? bow thruster? really ?
And at what cost ?
The my dyrona blog estimate the options + extra at nearly 40 pourcent of the list price of their Nordhavn52 !
I can understand that for the plaisure, we can order once in a life the full list, but the reality is that for the big adventure, we are not obliged.
We are developping a sort of paranoia syndroma calculating all the potential faillure...
On my way for my Trawler shopping I will try to stay out of the uge redundency wish list as much as i can.

human start to be paranoiac when ordering a new boat or planning a big adventure.
I was amazed yesterday to found on youtube a couple who cross the globe with their two small kids with very basic sailing boat.simple open cockpit with no wheel but a direct control. just a handle gps. no radar, no watermaker....
http://youtu.be/kALNkkZ7u7M
Some days ago I read that Nordhavn was surprise about a customer who order a N43 with nearly no options: no wing engine, no air co, no water maker, no hydraulic stabyliser.....they try to convince him about a longer list but realize that the owner had quite experience....Then official at PAE found it very refreshing when delivery....and realize that this owner had a new boat for far less that what the preowned market was asking for the same three-four year old boat!
On the my dyrona blog the owner say that iptions and post delivery nearly touch the 40 pourcent of the list price for a Nordhavn 52....
On my shoping list for a trawler able to carry my familly through the globe I will try to avoid becoming paranoiac.
item 1 is: the sea
item 2 is : family on board
Theses are the most important

jeppesen68 said:

I am new at this Forum, Airline Pilot in France, and plan to travel with my wife and two kids 4 and 2 on a trawler around the world for an indefinited time.
So some can tell: again a dreamer, as I have a very small expertise and experience in sailing of motor boating....a little bit more in navigation, weather, and travelling with my job....but I am sure that We will do it. This is a challenge, but just an other one in our life, and to br honest it does not look like it's the biggest one.
We will do it on the safe side, with maybe a professional on the first crossing ( Europe-Caraibe), but we Have to do it as crossing ocean is something initiatic for us.
I read plenty of sailor familly blog who cross the world with initial few experience....This is life and we have only one.
I recomand ypu to google on NORDHAVN 43 KOSMOS to see a couple who circumnavigate the world in two years with absolutely no experience on start.

Click to expand...

Welcome!

Thanks for the suggestion. I will check it out. Love hearing about families that jump right in with no experience, and do well.

I have actually decided to put the passagemaker on hold for now. I am going with a MY. There is a significant price difference for the amount of space and accommodation that I need. I have 5 kids so I was having difficulty finding one with enough beds for everyone. In a few years, I will trade up for a passagemaker. At least a couple of my kids will be off to college. But, until then, a MY will do just fine, and, as Kevin always says there is enough ocean to explore without having to cross one

Greetings,
Annnnddd, here we go.....

If a trouble free cruising boat was desired , my list would have an RV style toilet (gravity does nor break or require a rebuild) .

and a genuine easy to service fuel tank ( free design , Sparkman % Stephens web site) I would never accept a mere box of fuel.

Multiple plastic tanks , so when 300-4000 miles of fuel is excess only two tanks , plus the day tank could be kept fresh. OR 2 good monel tanks and a monel day tank. The tanks would be SERVICABLE ,,, S&S.

Systems would be selected so a noisemaker was only required for air cond , or as an emergency propulsion engine.

Sadly the boat assemblers prefer more complexity.

Ever since man moved out of a cave they have wanted more... it's our nature.

Everybody's idea of what's enough is different.


Years ago in the Marquesas a couple teenage guys sailed in from Panama in a 25' boat with nothing.. they even shared 1 spoon!...
did they make it there.. yes they did... did they "enjoy" the trip... I do not think so.. The Admiral went through our stores and handed off a bag full of stuff.. including a additional spoon and two forks.. they were ecstatic

we had our boat fitted out pretty simply, but we could make water, ice and take showers
Years ago there was a article I believe in Cruising World that basically came to the conclusion you should fit your boat out to be commensurate with the quality of your life on land.. makes sense to me.

HOLLYWOOD

Too much RT ?

Greetings,
Mr. h. Not at all. My comment was directed towards the reappearance of Ms. GG after a 1 year hiatus and what I suspect may be another go-around of "What about this one?"...."Aw gee, almost but not quite...., close but no cigar and not enough of or too much of something-or others.....". Refreshing and a stimulating mental exercise for the first 200 or 300 posts but wearying after a while.
You realize of course Ms. GG's syndrome is the personification of centuries, nay millenia of genetic conditioning that separates men and woman's shopping habits.
When homo sapiens were hunter/gatherers, women (gatherers) had the luxury of sorting through the nuts, berries and roots to select the best for dinner. Men's (hunters) only option was get in, kill, get out. No lolly-gagging about making choices. If you weren't fast, you went hungry.
Don't believe me? Go shopping with a woman.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings, Mr. h. Not at all. My comment was directed towards the reappearance of Ms. GG after a 1 year hiatus and what I suspect may be another go-around of "What about this one?"...."Aw gee, almost but not quite...., close but no cigar and not enough of or too much of something-or others.....". Refreshing and a stimulating mental exercise for the first 200 or 300 posts but wearying after a while. You realize of course Ms. GG's syndrome is the personification of centuries, nay millenia of genetic conditioning that separates men and woman's shopping habits. When homo sapiens were hunter/gatherers, women (gatherers) had the luxury of sorting through the nuts, berries and roots to select the best for dinner. Men's (hunters) only option was get in, kill, get out. No lolly-gagging about making choices. If you weren't fast, you went hungry. Don't believe me? Go shopping with a woman.

Click to expand...

LOVE the picture!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What about a Seahorse Marine 52'?http://www.yachtauthority.com/powerboat_sale-52_Seahorse_Marine-specs-5186.php

You definitely can go safely to sea in far less than what many recommend...

heck...remember the guy who wanted to fly and tied a bunch of helium balloons to a lawn chair? An advanced thinker...he remembered the BB gun for landing....

He's got more solo flight time than a LOT of armchair pilots...but I can't say his means of flying is much better than some dreamers ideas of crossing oceans.

I thought every Frenchman was a sailor. Sure enough of you sailing the world. I would recommend just visiting a local Marina over there and strike up a conversation. France has many local built beautiful yachts, both power and sail.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. h. Not at all. My comment was directed towards the reappearance of Ms. GG after a 1 year hiatus and what I suspect may be another go-around of "What about this one?"...."Aw gee, almost but not quite...., close but no cigar and not enough of or too much of something-or others.....". Refreshing and a stimulating mental exercise for the first 200 or 300 posts but wearying after a while.
You realize of course Ms. GG's syndrome is the personification of centuries, nay millenia of genetic conditioning that separates men and woman's shopping habits.
When homo sapiens were hunter/gatherers, women (gatherers) had the luxury of sorting through the nuts, berries and roots to select the best for dinner. Men's (hunters) only option was get in, kill, get out. No lolly-gagging about making choices. If you weren't fast, you went hungry.
Don't believe me? Go shopping with a woman.

Click to expand...

RTF...
Holy cow... I skipped right past the GG post.. I was so fed up with the entire debacle I never looked at any of those posts after the first week or so....
Must have been a Freudian slip..

great map of the male vs female shopper!
HOLLYWOOD

jeppesen68 said:

I am always amazed by the list of what we think necessary for a crossing.

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Whatever you do, move quickly before Mr Hollande taxes you into poverty and your bare bones trawler dream goes up in smoke.

psneeld said:

You definitely can go safely to sea in far less than what many recommend...

heck...remember the guy who wanted to fly and tied a bunch of helium balloons to a lawn chair? An advanced thinker...he remembered the BB gun for landing....

He's got more solo flight time than a LOT of armchair pilots...but I can't say his means of flying is much better than some dreamers ideas of crossing oceans.

Click to expand...

Lawn Chair Larry For anyone who doesn't remember, this covers a part of that maniacal flight with some contribution from his Admiral.

Lawnchair Larry: The Original Balloon Boy - Video

jeppesen68 said:

human start to be paranoiac when ordering a new boat or planning a big adventure.
I was amazed yesterday to found on youtube a couple who cross the globe with their two small kids with very basic sailing boat.simple open cockpit with no wheel but a direct control. just a handle gps. no radar, no watermaker....
voilier.mov - YouTube
Some days ago I read that Nordhavn was surprise about a customer who order a N43 with nearly no options: no wing engine, no air co, no water maker, no hydraulic stabyliser.....they try to convince him about a longer list but realize that the owner had quite experience....Then official at PAE found it very refreshing when delivery....and realize that this owner had a new boat for far less that what the preowned market was asking for the same three-four year old boat!
On the my dyrona blog the owner say that iptions and post delivery nearly touch the 40 pourcent of the list price for a Nordhavn 52....
On my shoping list for a trawler able to carry my familly through the globe I will try to avoid becoming paranoiac.
item 1 is: the sea
item 2 is : family on board
Theses are the most important

Click to expand...

I think you make a valid point. I am reminded of this every time I go over a replica of Captain Cook's Endeavour, or similar sailing vessel from the past.
I guess the trick is to get your must-have list down to the true essentials, and make sure those essentials are strong and good quality, and that preferably you can service/repair them yourself.
If you plan to go far afield then among those essentials I would list...
1. Reliable propulsion, and preferably back-up sail or wing engine.
2. Reliable refrigeration.
3. Reliable cooking equipment.
4. Water-maker and good tankage.
5. Self-steering of bulletproof design.
6. Good quality chart plotter, and also be able to use a sextant and charts.
7. Reliable and simple toilet arrangement.
I am assuming one has chosen a vessel with sound hull and decks and good sea-keeping characteristics.
But yes, we have become a bit paranoid re what we consider must haves, and in a boat there is not the need for double or triple redundancy such as you have in your aeroplane.
Most important of all....keep your eye on the prize...

I disagree, when you have a full displacement trawler, and going to try crossing an ocean you will realize how badly YOU NEED stabilizers. We turned ours off in a moderately rough and confused sea, it's like being in a rock tumbler.

Peter B said:

I think you make a valid point. I am reminded of this every time I go over a replica of Captain Cook's Endeavour, or similar sailing vessel from the past.
I guess the trick is to get your must-have list down to the true essentials, and make sure those essentials are strong and good quality, and that preferably you can service/repair them yourself.
If you plan to go far afield then among those essentials I would list...
1. Reliable propulsion, and preferably back-up sail or wing engine.
2. Reliable refrigeration.
3. Reliable cooking equipment.
4. Water-maker and good tankage.
5. Self-steering of bulletproof design.
6. Good quality chart plotter, and also be able to use a sextant and charts.
7. Reliable and simple toilet arrangement.
I am assuming one has chosen a vessel with sound hull and decks and good sea-keeping characteristics.
But yes, we have become a bit paranoid re what we consider must haves, and in a boat there is not the need for double or triple redundancy such as you have in your aeroplane.
Most important of all....keep your eye on the prize...

Click to expand...

Peter

You missed:

• Range, better have that one right!
• Good weather receiving systems and communications to the weather routers.
• And yes, stabilizers.

I have a better idea, buy a Nordhavn or Dashew FPB and cruise across the oceans happily ever after. Plus, a very big one, with these two you're able to successfully sell your vessel when you're tired out.

stabilizers...depends on boat and crew.....

right back to the ridiculous "need" debate.....

I would stick with a motor sailer. (a bigger one than I have now)
- No extra backup engine required
- Less fuel tankage required
- no other stabilizing system required
- why lose a knot with paravanes when you can gain a couple with sails

I agree with Bill Kimley - Sea Horse Marine on this.
SEAHORSE MARINE

psneeld said:

stabilizers...depends on boat and crew.....

right back to the ridiculous "need" debate.....

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Not really, comfortable blue passage making in a M/V is commonly if not unanimously done with stabilizers, whether passive or active. I will say that a planing boat headed out to go fishing is pretty good in mild waters, until the trolling begins.

I'd guess the cruncher in this discussion though is ask Nordhavn or the other blue water builders such as KK, Dashew, etc how many order their new build boats today WITHOUT stabilizers, we all know the answer.

sunchaser said:

........cruncher in this discussion though is ask Nordhavn or the other blue water builders such as KK, Dashew, etc how many order their new build boats today WITHOUT stabilizers, we all know the answer.

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Exactly my point! Next to NONE.

psneeld said:

stabilizers...depends on boat and crew..... right back to the ridiculous "need" debate.....

Click to expand...

Yep. If it's a nordhavn, and your crew is salty and doesn't get sick for nothing then you don't need them. But if your going bring your family across an ocean and they have no experience with water, well... We know the answer to that don't we?....... Not that he would get to far and not turn back only to his realization that he needs them.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings, Mr. h. Not at all. My comment was directed towards the reappearance of Ms. GG after a 1 year hiatus and what I suspect may be another go-around of "What about this one?"...."Aw gee, almost but not quite...., close but no cigar and not enough of or too much of something-or others.....". Refreshing and a stimulating mental exercise for the first 200 or 300 posts but wearying after a while. You realize of course Ms. GG's syndrome is the personification of centuries, nay millenia of genetic conditioning that separates men and woman's shopping habits. When homo sapiens were hunter/gatherers, women (gatherers) had the luxury of sorting through the nuts, berries and roots to select the best for dinner. Men's (hunters) only option was get in, kill, get out. No lolly-gagging about making choices. If you weren't fast, you went hungry. Don't believe me? Go shopping with a woman.

Click to expand...

Awesome!

Just wondering if this explanation alone may define why one individual may feel it necessary to have an LRC with no previous experience of ocean crossings? That's a lot of NM even if one only stays coastal in their cruising.