Boaters left in limbo in Mexico after raid by tax officials

U.S., Canadian boaters left in limbo in Mexico after raid by tax officials





Ted

I refuse to go to Mexico even for a beach vacation. It is just to corrupt at all levels. What a mess.

LaBomba said:

I refuse to go to Mexico even for a beach vacation. It is just to corrupt at all levels. What a mess.

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kinda like the US these days....

but I do feel safer here for some silly reason....

though bribes down there are WAY less expensive than lawyers here...

Those evil boaters buy fuel and food, drinks, souvenirs and party supplies, while paying dock fees, employing mechanics and divers.. so let's harass them and deter more tourism if we can.

They should have those permits available at the marinas and have you buy one on arrival. Not on some website somewhere.
If they wanted to collect on back fees, they should put a $30 penalty on top of the normal fee and be happy with that.
No, they will go all thuggish and point rifles at tourists while seizing their boats.
Hey Mexico-- here's your sign. Enjoy your desolate and abandoned tourist industry.

seizing boats....OMG...the IRS or other US agencies never do that!!!!

NOT!!!!

maybe not 300+ something in one swoop...but I bet our annual numbers make that number tiny....

"I have personally seized over 300 businesses or homes as a former Revenue Officer. It is not something I wanted to do but in most cases the taxpayer gave you no choice."

Can IRS seize my business, vehicle, home, pension or IRA? YES THEY CAN!!! | Fresh Start Tax

and that's a US agency seizing US property.....

We spent over 4.5 years in Mexico on 2 different boats last leaving in 2011. Of all the countries we have been to, Mexico is one of our favorites for cruising. Between the culture, the people and the food it's hard to beat. Corruption? Sure it's there but so is it here in the US. We were never been asked for mordita by the way. Safe? Depends on where you go? There aren't to many cities in the US I would into at 3 am Sunday morning. Because of some governmental sub-agency, it's to bad Mexico is in the lime light for something this stupid. I'm done.

Larry M said:

We spent over 4.5 years in Mexico on 2 different boats last leaving in 2011. Of all the countries we have been to, Mexico is one of our favorites for cruising. Between the culture, the people and the food it's hard to beat. Corruption? Sure it's there but so is it here in the US. We were never been asked for mordita by the way. Safe? Depends on where you go? There aren't to many cities in the US I would into at 3 am Sunday morning. Because of some governmental sub-agency, it's to bad Mexico is in the lime light for something this stupid. I'm done.

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Larry,
Great post!.. as always everybody can and will put their own spin on each situation.

I have been to Mexico countless times and never had a issue.. definitely I have NEVER been treated as bad as I have by the U.S. Customs!

I know some people have been wrongly accused by this sting ( Richard Spindler of Latitude 38 for one ) BUT... there are also a LOT of ex pats living down there that do their best to do as little as possible and really take advantage of Mexico.. so this doesn't surprise me too much

HOLLYWOOD

My understanding is Mexico does not make it difficult to comply with the law. The internet thing mentioned above was put in place to make compliance easier for everyone. Lot's of folks over at Cruiser Forum mention purchasing them at home prior to leaving thus making entry and compliance that much more convenient.

Everything I've read about this whole sting issue is that although a couple of innocent victims did get caught up, for the most part those involved where legitimate busts. Even the legitimate bust ones where just told to get their paperwork in order by a deadline to avoid action. It also sounds like some of the port captains where just as confused as those whose boats where detained.

I wouldn't run down there looking for the nearest boat auction over this.

Spending Time in Mexico

O C Diver said:

U.S., Canadian boaters left in limbo in Mexico after raid by tax officials

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Back in 2006 we spent six months driving back and forth from San Diego to Ensenada, Mexico (75 miles each way) to check on our boat which we kept at two different marina's. We took the boat at least twice a month fishing and whale watching. Those six months represented some the best times we ever had boating with the trawlers. While the bad press with the drug dealers hurt the country over the past few years I can advise many southern California new boat owners still took their boats south for tax purposes and I never heard of anyone being harassed during that period. Regarding the tax issue, my limited research shows it is in part an error by the Mexican government on how they performed the inspections and are trying to correct things. As others posted I'm sure if we didn't pay our taxes on our boats the US Government wouldn't ask twice before seizing the boat.

For what it is worth we plan to take N3522 La Tempestad south this summer to Ensenada, Mexico to enjoy the culture, great people, food and coastline cruising. Will we double check the paperwork requirements - sure bet.

John T.
N3522

Although we can see Mexico from our slip we will never go there again. Some 38 years ago, while in Mexico. we got a taste of "La Mordita," the little death. That is what they call bribery there, bribery that is carried out by policemen, the military, and government officials. It looks like nothing has changed.

Fom Bob Bitchin

Quelling the rumors...... This just in to Cruising Outpost!


Most boats already released in Mexico!
Yesterday all boats from marina Acapulco and Opequimar Vallarya were released. News is next week they will release the rest .

Many boats have not been "importing" their boats into Mexico and paying the $70 fee. So tax agents entered several marinas catering to foreign boats recently and slapped seizure orders on more than 300, The Associated Press reported.
The reason? The boats' owners, mostly American and Canadian retirees who cruise the Pacific and Caribbean coasts, not having a US$70 permit to tie up in Mexico.
U.S. officials are in contact with their Mexican counterparts to discuss the issue, AP said, adding that Canadian Foreign Affairs officials know of three Canadian boats that were seized in the November raids.
The operation is part of the Mexican government's new effort to improve the country's abysmal tax-collection rate, one of the worst among the world's large economies, AP said.
All boaters should have what's called a Temporary Import Permit.The document, which can be obtained online, proves the boats are owned by the permit-holder and affirms the owners will not leave or sell them in Mexico.
Officials inspected more than 1,600 boats at eight marinas and issued seizure orders against 338 that supposedly lacked the permit.
Reports from Mexican authorities have contacted us and told us many boats have already been released, and the rest should be released on Monday.

Greetings,
Hmmm.....everyone is quick to judge and condemn the Mexican authorities but when it comes out that those vessels seized neglected to pay the proper fees-nothing. Are they still lawless crooks and thieves? Some listees think not. Can hardly wait for the next "bad guy" report....
Reminds me a bit of the Bahamian fee increase a few years back. How dare the Bahamian government charge for the rape of their waters! I've personally seen a center console boat loaded with conch (hard to estimate but could easily have been 2000+) over in Bimini for the weekend and heading back to the good old US of A to sell the "catch". Saw another sport fish over for a week-ends fishing with over 100 Mahi. They gave most away and dumped the rest. The $300 fee hopefully has cut down on that type of thing.
I suspect there will be fewer $70 no-pays in Mexico in the next little while.

I used to enjoy going to Mexico with my family. Anymore I'm just not interested. The "corruption" wasn't such a large problem for me. Unlike the U.S., at least there as in other parts of the Caribbean, it's pretty much up front. Just figure out who and what to pay and be done with it.

The crime problem and their inability to control it, is what's keeps me from taking my family back. It's the same thing that keeps me from taking my family certain places in the U.S. While I will go alone on business, I won't risk the families safety. And with their arse backward stance on weapons and self defense (again, similar to some parts of our own country), it's not likely I'm going to reconsider visiting any time soon. Too many other places less problematic (IMHO) to visit.

While it certainly could have been avoided by some common sense on both sides, the "raid" sounds more like some politico got their panties in a wad, and decided to make an "example" of these "tax avoiding scofflaws." Unfortunately, it also sounds like they had their heads up their posteriors in the planning stage, and failed to do their homework before launching such a ridiculous effort. Of course, we (the U.S.) would never do such a thing, right?.

"Guns" are part of the standard issue for most LEO's and Military organizations, so the fact that they were "armed" doesn't concern me.
Now, if they hit the place like a Meth Lab, that would be a different story.

Did anyone go to jail over this?
If not, then it's a minor inconvenience in a still 3rd world part of our big round ball. Just another shitty day in paradise I guess?

Frankly, I'm more concerned by the increase in federal raids here in the good old U.S. of A., conducted by the knuckle draggers form various (and at times relatively obscure) agencies, as well as our own out of control IRS!

I guess the bottom line is, if you're going to go, pay the tax, grease the palms of Who The F*** ever, and enjoy another cerveza!

OD

The only part of this of which I was unhappy was the implication that some boats that had paid the tax were impounded because the owners were not on board to show the receipt.

Marty

What many seem to have missed is that unlike in this country, the "violators" were not arrested, were not charged with a crime, and their property was not chained to the dock or impounded. They were not prevented from using their boats.

The process was an administrative one, pay the fee or you will lose your property.

Don't let the fanatics over in the Dark Side color the discussion with their self righteous hatred and fear.

For a moment I thought the thread was about Upper California and the steep and confiscatatory property taxing authorities. I would never keep my boat in CA where crime is rampant and politicians all too often behave like/are thieves.

There is a sales and property tax avoidance dance that many play moving their vessels between upper and lower CA. It happens throughout the world, I do the same but try to stay a legal step ahead.

sunchaser said:

...There is a sales and property tax avoidance dance that many play moving their vessels between upper and lower CA. It happens throughout the world, I do the same but try to stay a legal step ahead.

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Yep.
Not on a local or state, but on a federal level, it's your right to minimize your tax burden lawfully (per my former IRS agent, now CPA), but a crime to avoid.

Screw around the dark side, and the fines and penalties can get ugly quick!!

I use every loophole and provision given to me by the "team" at the Infernal Revenue Service, to minimize my taxes. As he says, beat them at their own game

RickB said:

What many seem to have missed is that unlike in this country, the "violators" were not arrested, were not charged with a crime, and their property was not chained to the dock or impounded. They were not prevented from using their boats.

The process was an administrative one, pay the fee or you will lose your property.

Don't let the fanatics over in the Dark Side color the discussion with their self righteous hatred and fear.

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Thanks RickB
That answers my previous question and clarifies matters greatly.

Short of having a weapon pointed in my face or going to jail, the rest of this horse crap is just that...horse crap! It's administrative, paperwork!
Go take care of the paperwork, pay the ransom as my attorney calls this kind of crap, and move on. It's that simple.

While I'm not an advocate for frivolous lawsuits, sometimes the government needs to be slapped around a little to "help" them realize that "we the people" are not going to allow ineptitude of this magnitude to exist unchecked. And when it does happen, it will cost them...money, and on occasion jobs

There should be some sort of compensation, be it monetarily, constructively (maybe a waiver of the "tax" for the next few visits?), or at a minimum, a letter of apology from someone North of a clerk, for the error, to the boat owners and their guests.

Unfortunately, considering where this occurred, I doubt ANY of the boat owners who were inconvenienced, had their vessels "IMPROPERLY" seized, or were cost money due to the piss poor handling by the Mexican officials who failed to note that the tax had been paid (per the article), will ever be able to get restitution or satisfaction from the Mexican government.

Just sayin'...

OD

Just a clarification. The impoundments were not a tax issue but the compliance with Temporary Import Permits (TIP). The TIP is good for 10 years for a boat and allows unlimited entry's as long as you are in compliance with customs and immigrations. We got our last one in 2008 and paid $49.50US. There aren't to many places in the world that are that generous.

Nothing here that looks difficult to comply with.

http://www.mexonline.com/boatmex.htm

I received a speeding ticket a few years ago, if I follow some of the logic in this thread it was the officers fault for citing me.

CPseudonym said:

Nothing here that looks difficult to comply with.

MexOnline.com - Taking Your Boat To Mexico - Official Government Information

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Agreed, but by the same token, how difficult could it have been for the authorities to confirm that the vessels they were "raiding", "boarding" or "seizing", were not in compliance BEFORE seizing the boats and creating such a P.R. nightmare?

It's like a drug raid on the wrong house. Very bad mojo...

ancora said:

Although we can see Mexico from our slip we will never go there again. Some 38 years ago, while in Mexico. we got a taste of "La Mordita," the little death. That is what they call bribery there, bribery that is carried out by policemen, the military, and government officials. It looks like nothing has changed.

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La or una Mordida means a bite, in other words a policeman etc. is "putting the bite on you".
There are many Spanish slang words for a bribe the proper one is soborno.
My favorite was a cop in the Dominican Republic who flagged us down on the road for an imaginary infraction, after warning he asked for a contribution for "El Presidente". Presidente is the name of the popular, and very good, beer there.

Off Duty said:

Agreed, but by the same token, how difficult could it have been for the authorities to confirm that the vessels they were "raiding", "boarding" or "seizing", were not in compliance BEFORE seizing the boats and creating such a P.R. nightmare?

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To be fair here I have not read any of the sensationalized media reports. My only information was from a couple of folks in one of the marinas. They said nothing about "raiding" or "boarding". Seizures where procedural due to no TIP on file with the Port Captain or prominently displayed aboard the vessel as prescribed on the TIP.

One couple was asleep aboard their rather small sailboat and awoke to find the seizure notice on their boat a few hours later. That's some real stealthy raiding and boarding tactics where people can sleep through it.

Perhaps Larry can confirm that as he has been there on his current boat recently and seems to have a TIP in his possession.

This was just forwarded to me.

Opequimar Shipyard, Puerto Vallarta which had 16 vessels on “Precautionary Embargo” have been removed, and released. Opequimar provided certified copies of all needed paperwork to SAT , AT NO TIME were the vessels at Opequimar , chained, seized or IMPOUNDED, Just Like marina Nuevo Vallarta under ” Precautionary Embargo” only. They handled the issue in a professional manner and dealt with the issue and all things considered rather quickly

As with any governmental agency, there is bureaucracy,and things take time, 2 of the 3 marinas affected this area have had their issues resolved


Captain Elizabeth
Nuevo Vallarta.

I grew up in San Diego and have never understood how mad Americans get when they choose to go to a foreign country, Mexico, and choose to violate that countries laws and then get caught. They have rules, we have rules. When in Mexico you must follow their rules.

Ti22 said:

I grew up in San Diego and have never understood how mad Americans get when they choose to go to a foreign country, Mexico, and choose to violate that countries laws and then get caught. They have rules, we have rules. When in Mexico you must follow their rules.

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Ditto.

Larry M said:

This was just forwarded to me.

Opequimar Shipyard, Puerto Vallarta which had 16 vessels on “Precautionary Embargo” have been removed, and released. Opequimar provided certified copies of all needed paperwork to SAT , AT NO TIME were the vessels at Opequimar , chained, seized or IMPOUNDED, Just Like marina Nuevo Vallarta under ” Precautionary Embargo” only. They handled the issue in a professional manner and dealt with the issue and all things considered rather quickly

As with any governmental agency, there is bureaucracy,and things take time, 2 of the 3 marinas affected this area have had their issues resolved


Captain Elizabeth
Nuevo Vallarta.

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Very cool indeed

Ti22 said:

I grew up in San Diego and have never understood how mad Americans get when they choose to go to a foreign country, Mexico, and choose to violate that countries laws and then get caught. They have rules, we have rules. When in Mexico you must follow their rules.

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Yep. Somebody else's sandbox, their rules.

CPseudonym said:

...One couple was asleep aboard their rather small sailboat and awoke to find the seizure notice on their boat a few hours later. That's some real stealthy raiding and boarding tactics where people can sleep through it...

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Yepper, that would be some stealthy ops for sure
Like yourself, I don't have anymore than the left wing press to rely upon either. Just wondered how hard it would have been to have all your ducks in a row before you do anything?

Oh well, all's well that ends well